Link to people who had Near Death Experiences say they went to hell and back

[Ksandra]

I think the point was that reposting a locked topic not once, but twice, seems worthy of banning. I mean it isn't my call, but it seems a bit silly to just treat the symptoms. The fish rots from the head, they say, so why not cut off the head? ...It's not a perfect metaphor.

he was sent an infraction for said threads. This is his first, we usually don't ban outright people on their first offense unless something extreme. You usually get 10 points to get banned otherwise.

[Stiker]

he was sent an infraction for said threads. This is his first, we usually don't ban outright people on their first offense unless something extreme. You usually get 10 points to get banned otherwise.

That makes sense then. As long as the crazy is contained to one thread, that's fine, but good God, it was ridiculous to see the same crap popping up like clockwork every few days.

[Qalbert]

If you accept God as the living consciousness of the universe (which I'm not expecting you to), then technically everything that happens ever is an observation of God.

so when my cells split and whatnot thats an observation of my consciousness?

[Max™]

*Pretends like it is something beneficial?

Viruses act like the bodies own proteins to go unnoticed by the immune system.
Religion acts like it is your own idea to go unnoticed by logic and reason. Your body does not produce viruses by itself, and you did not produce religion by yourself.

*Infectious manner of transmission?

Viruses can be passed by airborne agents, bodily fluids, ingestion, skin contact, reproduction. Friends and family, casual contact.
Religion can be passed by audio agents, visual agents, nearly subliminal methods, pressure from peers and family members, and casual contact.


*Subverts the mechanisms present in the host for it's own use?

Viruses alter the processes inside cells to produce more copies of themselves.
Religion alters the thinking processes of it's followers to encourage them to spread itself to others.


*Shows no concern for the host beyond utilitarian purposes?

Viruses often end up destroying the cells they infect, and over time this can weaken or kill the host.
Religion often encourages selfless acts, some of which are relatively harmless to the host and seen as socially positive (charity, self-denial). It also often encourages self sacrifice to further it's own goals. Killing oneself to further a cause or idea, or killing oneself to kill the enemies of an idea being a common theme. It is seen as noble and just to end one host, such that the other hosts may continue their goals.

The sacrifice of a host is often used as an example in a positive light, not even the most vicious virus does this. HIV does not point to the number of people who have died from AIDS and use it as an attempt to encourage others that HIV is a good thing, dead hosts are obviously a bad thing for HIV, but as long as it was able to propagate itself, the overall purpose of it's genetic program was fulfilled.

Dead hosts are not a bad thing for religion however, for it has found a way to use the death of hosts as a means to encourage others to accept it. This is truly frightening.

[Kazen]

Ok, if God exists how do you explain places like this.

Ħaġar Qim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Hager 'qim the oldest known religious temple in the world (3600BCE). Why would he let things like this go on for 3600 years(people worshiping gods that weren't him)? Oh that's right, he doesn't exist.

[Max™]

If you accept God as the living consciousness of the universe (which I'm not expecting you to), then technically everything that happens ever is an observation of God.

I am the Universe experiencing itself.

So I am God?

That is a non-answer.

Did the Universe create itself? This is possible through temporal loop arguments which honestly hurt my head, and I think about this shit for fun.

If God is the Universe, then you understand that God is not infinite, as the Universe is clearly not infinite. So God is just an arbitrarily large collection of events, randomly questioning itself, unfurling as if it were not God at all.

So what you call God, I can point out is simply the physical laws by which things operate, and discard any religious overtones entirely, yes?

[Max™]

So much easier to deal with when it isn't Religion itself, but just concepts from it.

God definitely exists, as an idea.

[Kazen]

I would posit that worshipping God is a concept invented by Man. If God is out there I can't imagine why people believing in Him one way or the other would make an ounce of difference to him.

Edit: A concept invented by Man to hold down and control other men.

Oh my point was to the Jesus guy, why would he let millions of people worship other gods for over 3600 years before he made himself known? Does that mean anyone born in those 3600 years automatically went to hell? I mean, how could they worship Jesus if they didn't know about him. The only way to explain this is either he's a dick or the more logical answer... he doesn't exist. During this time frame entire civilizations started and ended over and over.

[zoobernut]

I would posit that worshipping God is a concept invented by Man. If God is out there I can't imagine why people believing in Him one way or the other would make an ounce of difference to him.

Edit: A concept invented by Man to hold down and control other men.

This is the conclusion that inevitably leads to the idea that the existence or non-existence of god even as a high concept has no impact on humans and does not matter.

Like Max said if a god or higher being exists and interacts with this world it would be measurable and if it doesn't then the existence of such a god doesn't matter.

There is no higher being that exists and cares about what we do.

[Max™]

Zoob is being nicer about it than I am.


I'm a Virgo, we're supposedly tactless and rude.


The movie Dogma summed up a lot of my views on it, Faith isn't so bad, though it is easily dangerous, but Religion is bad. I am unwavering in this these days, Religion kills.

[Ivve]

99% of religious people don't have 5 years of religious training. And the ones that do have 5 years of "religious training" are the ones teaching children evolution doesn't exist.

HALLO! MCFLY? YOU THERE MCFLY?!

I guess you missed the part where I said the other side sounds ignorant also. Trying to argue against someone who doesn't know what the fuck while also not knowing what the fuck doesn't make you somehow magically appear intelligent, even if the first person is straight up wrong.

[Seraph]

Zoob is being nicer about it than I am.

When you can accurately tell everyone what happened before the big bang, you win man. Otherwise it's two people screaming "I'm pretty sure my idea is better than yours!" at each other.

Popcorn results.

[Ivve]

I should note, I'm not a religious person. I'm agnostic. I don't have proof of either, and I lean most toward "probably not." Doesn't seem likely, but I acknowledge that until I die and see for myself, there's really no way for me to say with certainty.

Some tidbits for you guys who don't know what the fuck:

The reason that God would give a shit is wrapped up in religion in the first place. He created us and clearly views us as his children, or at times seemingly more like pets or subjects in my opinion. Probably from God's point of view, he gave us literally everything and we shit on it like ungrateful bastards. So yeah, there's some punishment that has to take place to make us appreciate shit that we quite plainly initially did not care about. I dunno how this really escapes you guys unless you're being purposely opaque about religion. I'm not saying that it is necessarily logical or that it makes any kind of sense, but it's really not that hard to understand where they're coming from.

Shit is not predetermined according to God's Will™, which people are all like YEAH WELL THAT ROBS US OF FREE WILL. I think it's pretty obvious that being all omniscient and infinite and whatnot gives you the capacity to conceive every possible outcome. On top of that, have you ever met with a set of circumstances that forced you to behave a certain way? You might have initially had 4 different options for dinner to use a very plain example, but the electricity went out at your place and it forced you to order pizza. In this case, it's God forcing your hand there in the ordering of the pizza. Just apply that to bigger examples. Generally speaking, I think the whole "God's Will" thing really only comes into play to explain things that happen to you to force you to act, and then you subsequently choose how to act. Sometimes the same shit will keep happening to you until you act in a different way. (I think this is just common sense. Your car will keep breaking down until you fix it properly, people will keep responding to you negatively if you behave like a dickhole, etc.) But that's also attributed to God's Will™. It explains things that are outside of your control. In the case of people thinking that they are carrying out God's Will™, it's clearly when they think that whatever action they are taking is the path of righteousness or goodness or is somehow celestially justified. Since God is understood by this person to be righteous, then surely acting in a righteous manner is indeed carrying out God's Will™. That much seems pretty plain to me even if, as I said, it's not based on logical beliefs. I guess growing up in a religious household where some of these things were explained to me makes it easier for me to interpret some of their logic even if I don't necessarily agree with it. I'm honestly incredulous that some of you are so obtuse, though. I can't believe you've made the choice to be atheists clearly without having an understanding of some of these key principles.

[Rhyis.]

To the people that were talking about the Big Bang theory a page back. I have pretty rudimentary knowledge of the whole thing, but it's my understanding that this theory states that the universe first began as a singular force. The combination of what makes the universe what it is; matter, space, time, gravity. Then the "super force" heats, expands and seperates into, basically, the universe. That's my understanding of what the Big Bang theory is.

My question is, if this is what the theory actually is. Wouldn't it be an easy leap for a lot people who are agnostic, or on the fence on the issue, to interpret the singular force as God? Since, according to the theory, this force is what we were created from.

[Eratosthenes]

My question is, if this is what the theory actually is. Wouldn't it be an easy leap for a lot people who are agnostic, or on the fence on the issue, to interpret the singular force as God? Since, according to the theory, this force is what we were created from.

It would take a very nebulous definition of what a god is to make that leap.

[zoobernut]

My question is, if this is what the theory actually is. Wouldn't it be an easy leap for a lot people who are agnostic, or on the fence on the issue, to interpret the singular force as God? Since, according to the theory, this force is what we were created from.

If that was the case again, god would not have a consciousness, nor would god care about us, nor would god care how/when/if we worshiped it. I think the bottom line for me as an agnostic is that whether or not god exists is inconsequential to the existence of man. If god is just a one time or once in a while event then the rest of the time is just leading up to or away from god. Unless I am grossly misunderstanding what you mean by your statement that god is a force.

[Rhyis.]

Well, I suppose its based on how God is being interpreted. An old man with a beard sitting on a cloud watching you. A fat monk with infinite knowledge and understanding. Or whatever it is that created life and existence throughout the universe. You've got to remember, for thousands of years people worshipped a giant ball of heat in the sky and called it God. They didn't neccesary believe it was an entity of any kind. They just acknowledged that this thing is the sky was giving them life. Which to them was of Godlike status.

I personally don't particularly care how existence was created. It's for the most part, irrelevant to my everyday comings and goings. I just find others beliefs rather interesting. That includes the Big Bang theory, Superstring theory, M theory and all that other fun stuff. I was just curious if my interpetation of the theory was in anyway correct or not. And could people who are not well versed in the subject see the findings in a different way.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Please take the time to watch the video. It's well worth your time.

[Rhinox]

rather jam a rusty nail in my scrotum.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Three words...Watch The Video.

It's important that you watch the video from the original post in this thread.