Goodbye present - how to kill AV (before it's patched)

[dejet]

If I start to see LS's one shot every NM in the game ya I might see it as a bad thing. As it stands we have seen this

1)a video of a UFO being taken down
2)hydra taken down to around 30%(this leaves this HNMs rage mood to out live)

The way I see it, this is a fast way to take NMs down, most HNMs seem to make it really hard to do. you can take it down a large amount yet you bring it into rage mood, if you only have 13 people or whatever 10 schs might be a bad way to go... Hell why bring 10 schs to any HNM when you can do it with less with no use of 2hrs and know that one slip up could mean a wipe?

one sch lags all you have are schs and a tank >.>? good idea LOL

It is a very cool idea and is fun, and might be the answer to killing AV(somewhat) it just does not seem like a very safe way to take down other NMs if you ask me.

[Jesifromgaruda]

Killlkrow was in SapereAude when we killed it pre-zerg patch.

Ok thanks, just thought I would throw it out there.

lol @ myself for missing the third l, I guess I just glanced at the name as I was buying crap from the bazaar. But thanks.

[Dawin]

There's like a 1.5 - 2 second margin of error right? Wild card is instant... are you pondering what I'm pondering? Anyone tested if there's enough time to MV, get wild carded and MV again?

60*(3/4)^10 = 3.4 seconds to do everything after the first helix hits?

[Cairthenn]

There's like a 1.5 - 2 second margin of error right? Wild card is instant... are you pondering what I'm pondering? Anyone tested if there's enough time to MV, get wild carded and MV again?

60*(3/4)^10 = 3.4 seconds to do everything after the first helix hits?

No, just no.

[Nightfyre]

There's like a 1.5 - 2 second margin of error right? Wild card is instant... are you pondering what I'm pondering? Anyone tested if there's enough time to MV, get wild carded and MV again?

60*(3/4)^10 = 3.4 seconds to do everything after the first helix hits?

Did the math right, didn't follow through, crashes and burns.

Here, I'll help you along a bit. Do your math again, this time with doubled MV ie ^20. See the problem? That's not even accounting for the fact that you likely wouldn't have time to do this given latency, you'd be cutting it so close as to remove all possibility of nailing it... ever.

[Dawin]

this time with doubled MV ie ^20.

I meant to get off 10 total, so 5 scholars 1 corsair.

[Waku]

Hell, in the meantime can't we at least have some silly lesser NMs one shot with less SCHs? Go one shot all the sky gods, or the regular jailers or something.

[Shamaya]

Semantic arguments

After reading the thread it does seem to me as if there's something different at play preventing 9mv from being used against AV. Even as has been stated, with the chance of 9mv succeeding to be ~1/4 to 1/3 at best, it would have been expected that this would have worked on AV by now. It's worked on other mobs, including hydra, but Kaeko's collaboration fails 9 times and another ls claims failing 30+ times (pg2, 1st post), and numerous attempts from various others also show no luck :/. Naturally it would start to seem likely that something is "different" about AV (insert imaginary scene of the Dev team chortling over a couple cold ones at having the foresight to pre-patch this for AV already). I guess it could just be the greater stress causing less precision, or random bad luck messing it up. That sounds less likely to me though.

If you MB this and get the 1.3x bonus, this comes to ~208 damage on the MB.

@8MV 208 damage base gives 53,248 damage 80.6% HP

I'm not a mage-type myself but it would be humorous to see a 6-part renkei (impossible to time precisely), which by wiki's #'s would bring mb bonus up to 1.6 from 1.3; 1.6/1.3*80.6%hp = 99.2%. Don't flame me I'm not proposing this seriously -.-

9mv sounds ideal if it would just work already. A clever 8mv strategy doesn't sound outrageous to the optimistic. But then, Hanayaki's group (pg2) was not able to stack more than 7 after an alleged 30+ attempts.

[Waef]

If the max that seems to work on AV is 7 (assuming it hasn't just been bad luck thus far), then it seems like the only option is to get like 48 scholars and 6 bards, and use 6 groups of 8 scholars + bard. I say 6 to account for the damage reduction as HP decreases. Although, much easier said than done, as finding that many scholars is unlikely, and all groups being able to pull off 7 MVs perfectly in a relatively short time frame is unlikely. And of course there's the possibility of resists which will just ruin everything.

[shepardG]

Are helix spells always 9sec tics? I understand the duration changes based on various things (Macc, INT, pant size, tigers, etc) Is it possible that that with as many modifiers and buffs that the Helix scholar is receiving, that the tic is being affected?

I guess I'm just skeptical that you can't land 9MV's on this guy, when you can land 9 on other mobs.
You can land 9MV's on other mobs right?

[Arthars]

some just do it on something slightly HNM-ish, take a video and call this a close

why aim for AV if you cannot even do it to a, lets say, jailer-of-fucking-faith

i demand faith to die in 3 sec, i hate that NM as a sea T1 tbh

[Mistress Stowastiq]

Modus Veritas- Powerful When Used Correctly? Or Bugged?

http://petfoodalpha.com/5818/modus-v...ctly-or-bugged

Just saw this. Don't know if it has been posted here by the PFA peeps.

[Valkrish]

I have to admit though, this is like the tenth time I've heard superstacking MV mentioned... only the second time in reference to AV, but still. I honestly assumed it had been tested and discarded >_>

just fyi: it worked on Fafnir a few months ago.

tried with 3 scholars though, was very neat.

[drwaffles]

Even as has been stated, with the chance of 9mv succeeding to be ~1/4 to 1/3 at best

Then explain why, after our first Om'Yovra kill in which we altered the timing in a way we hadn't before, we then managed to pull it off twice more in exactly the same fashion without error. There's no mathematical reason for this not to work on AV - Kaeko's group reported a very limited success rate in general because, in my opinion, they were spamming instead of timing it very accurately, which is what we were doing. There's nothing "special" about AV when it comes to Modus Veritas. Why would they implement something like that when a. it's obviously not intended to work like this and b. not a single other NM that has been tested (Hydra, Jorm, and many others by this point) shows any such "resistance"? People don't seem to understand that you have to time it perfectly in order to make it work, which is why a bunch of random people getting together to thwart AV will inevitably end in failure. Our initial tests on Hydra were abysmal, and it took a long time for us to get it just right on the Yovra, but once we did we were able to do it consistently.

[chiyio]

[/B]

Because 1 shotting a monster isnt an exploit right? Yeah exactly.

I'm a bit late on this, but 9 SCH's MVing something to death (one mob) in your eyes is bad, but 3 SMN's AFing 100 mobs to death is ok? Strange

[Dimmauk]

Then explain why, after our first Om'Yovra kill in which we altered the timing in a way we hadn't before, we then managed to pull it off twice more in exactly the same fashion without error. There's no mathematical reason for this not to work on AV - Kaeko's group reported a very limited success rate in general because, in my opinion, they were spamming instead of timing it very accurately, which is what we were doing. There's nothing "special" about AV when it comes to Modus Veritas. Why would they implement something like that when a. it's obviously not intended to work like this and b. not a single other NM that has been tested (Hydra, Jorm, and many others by this point) shows any such "resistance"? People don't seem to understand that you have to time it perfectly in order to make it work, which is why a bunch of random people getting together to thwart AV will inevitably end in failure. Our initial tests on Hydra were abysmal, and it took a long time for us to get it just right on the Yovra, but once we did we were able to do it consistently.

Yeah, I'm sure after practicing for a while this could work well.

[Spekkio]

i believe drwaffles is correct in that kaeko's group was forced to try to eyeball it. kaeko's not a fan of bots to my knowledge so it would make sense. since we're looking at millisecond timing, it's not all together surprising that it was spotty. i've hypothesized that the use of the <bt> tag's behavior in an alliance could be used to sync at most 5 MV (MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBE 6 if you can chain 2 ja's fast enough but that's neither here nor there) due to the behavior of a bad syntax in the ffxi client. not enough time to type out a detailed explanation, but you guys should have no difficulty seeing where i'm going. if not, i'll expand on it more this afternoon.

as for the question of it being an exploit, glitch, unintended circumstance, or designed as such, my inclination is to go with the third option. the best parallel i can find to this is the rune chopper drk build. i somehow doubt that the game was designed to expect a 97%+ haste resulting in swings so frantic from a drk that they would give an epileptic seizures, but the design creep eventually introduced enough haste material from different sources to make it possible. indeed, when the relevant drk JAs were added i believe and most certainly when the chopper was added, no form of JA haste even existed. they had feature creep that allowed us to push the boundaries of their rules to create obscenely strong effects. SE recognized this and put a cap on the effect to throttle it. nobody was banned, and few would claim the rune chopper was an exploit, or i'd hope not at least. it was an unintended circumstance that was remedied, just like this will be. stacking haste is no exploit, after all reducing attack delay is in the very description of the ability. the same can be said for MV. increases damage and reduces duration. well, that's exactly what's being done. we're just learning better how to control the duration, much like we learned to determine the exact way haste was computed to maximize the effect.

[sruon]

Kinda funny how I'm being spammed of messages "Why is Rizner in the video?"

There's no mathematical reason for this not to work on AV

Amen

[hotpiercedguy]

For what it is worth I thought I would share this:

A friend of mine (who's word I trust) was planning on trying this, and called a GM just to be sure it was ok.

The GM said something along the lines of "We are aware of this matter; others have reported it; we are currently investigating it and until our investigation is complete it is advised you do not try it."

Something to that effect. They are on 360 so no SS's, just thought I would pass along the info. Do with it as you will.

[Shamaya]

I was just going by what Kaeko mentioned since magic seems to often come from his pen. But I definitely see what you're saying. If you are confident that it is only a timing issue and that this is still wholly possible, then I genuinely wish ya'll the best of luck; I think we all do. That is before any impending patch >,<, and assuming you guys can still get the timing right without OnEvent.