Goodbye present - how to kill AV (before it's patched)

[Gippo]

same base damage yes, but with gear/merits no one would be nuking quake II when you can do burst2/freeze2

edit: and yes, with a timed strategy on blms, multiple nukes at the same time usually leave several resisted.

this sch method is still king, even with an army of blms as a 2nd choice.

[Yinnyth]

Think about it, overpowered has 2 aspects, First being really really strong, and second being actually accepted and used reliably. If you can MV kill AV 1/50 times is that really overpowered? It only seems so since 1/50 is so much better than 0/50. Would you be happy with a 1/50 success rate on JOL? No, you'd adjust your strategy and find a better way.

If this idea actually works and AV can be one-shot by it when done properly (this is a HUGE "if" seeing as how no one seems to have accomplished it yet), it would become the only currently proven working strategy against an enemy that has drops so rare and valuable you can sell them for pretty much anything you want ingame. 1 in 50 sounds like my rate of kraken drops in "Up in Arms", except replace the "1" with "0". Despite this I still keep trying hoping for my lucky day to come.

I don't know about you guys, but if someone said they finally got it to work after 50 tries and provided proof, I'd jump on this so fast, it'd make Cactrot Rapido look like Cactrot Ordinario.

As for the ethics of it, I'll be completely honest and say that I'd be happier if this technique never works out, but that wouldn't stop me from taking part in it given the chance. The only rule this could possibly be breaking right now is the vague "We retain the right to interpret the rules as we see fit on a situation to situation basis" disclaimer.

[Gippo]

if its not patched in 2 weeks , some endgame shells with the desire could muster 10 schs, so the clock's definately ticking. But most probably think it will be nerfed before they get the chance to test it, so why waste the time leveling it. Most serious shells would probably feel more inclined to "buy off" schs to test it for them, but then again,

random ppl being brought together to kill an unkillable mob...kinda takes away from the glory of "first", so unless you got the schs right now, a rare thing in itself, I dont think it would be utilyzed pre-patch.

[Grey Jorildyn]

AV has had so many "firsts" I don't think anyone cares (ie. first to use WoJ, first to lock regen, first to zerg, etc).

At this point it's just become an iconic accomplishment that every gamer wants to overcome simply because the odds are stacked so heavily against them. It's a guy thing too.

[Tirgen]

To match the potential dmg output of 10 Schs (on a 100+ dmg helix), you'd need 50+ Blms doing a timed AMII nuke (assuming 2k+ dmg per nuke)

That is not what I was suggesting. I agree, the math works out approximately as you say. However what I was pointing out, is that an Om'Yorva does not have massive HP, so we cannot say that 167,342 damage was done. That video is not proof that in practice 9 scholars can do the damage we predict they can on paper. It is proof that 9 scholars can do 20k (or whatever the HP of an Om is) which is not greater than the proven damage output of several other sources.

It's cool to see, and it doesn't dis-prove the sch's potential. However it also does not prove it.

[Suiram]

It pretty much does. The only real question is (was, rather), "Can you land 9 MVs on a mob in such a way that the helix will do a subsequent tic?" After that, the rest is math. It doesn't matter if the yovra has 20,000 or 200,000 or 200 HP, if they did 9 and a tic went off at all, that's sufficient. Likewise, it doesn't matter if Kaeko's group only dropped Hydra to 57%, if the initial damage had been 147 instead of 63, it would have died instantly. This part really shouldn't be up for debate.

[Tirgen]

If this idea actually works and AV can be one-shot by it when done properly (this is a HUGE "if" seeing as how no one seems to have accomplished it yet), it would become the only currently proven working strategy against an enemy that has drops so rare and valuable you can sell them for pretty much anything you want ingame. 1 in 50 sounds like my rate of kraken drops in "Up in Arms", except replace the "1" with "0". Despite this I still keep trying hoping for my lucky day to come.

I don't know about you guys, but if someone said they finally got it to work after 50 tries and provided proof, I'd jump on this so fast, it'd make Cactrot Rapido look like Cactrot Ordinario.

This is just what I was trying to point out about how to decide if this method is 'Overpowered' I do not know what the universal success rate was for KDrk Zerg before it was patched, In my shell I believe we were 8/11 (call it 75% for round numbers). So is being able to Kill AV 75% of the time in 30 seconds overpowered. SE said yes, patched it and we cannot anymore.

IF (the same big big IF you mentioned) MV-Burn is real, how often it is successful is a huge factor in determining if it is overpowered. If it works 75% of the time then yes, just like KDrk expect it to be patched on AV and possibly elsewhere. If it works 2% of the time, then how overpowered is that really? Sure, it the best success rate currently available, but its not going to flood the market in AV items at that rate.

[willriker]

(Also, was the 25% damage from a smaller group of SCH, 6 or so? I can't find the post anymore, but even with the additional 3 SCH, you're only going to push AV's health down to a level where he's gained damage resistance.)

This was done with 5-6 MV's landing on AV. If 9 landed it would be dead. The current issue is the Helix wearing off instantly after about 8 MV's. Noone has been able to land all 9 yet... not even with bots on AV. In the OP, there is a video of 9 landing on a ufo.

There has been no proof show of anything decent beign killed by this method. Probably because getting this method to work is based more on luck than skill of any sort. Even with 3rd party software... it is incredibly difficult to get to work. From what i hear, far more often than not, it didnt.

helix > 6 sec > MVx8-9 = win

making it sound this simple... is silly. It is that simple in theory, but go ahead and try it. If you did, you would not make a statement like that. Yes, it works on paper, but in game... GL. Its very hard to coordinate well enough to make this work. You have player error, latency issues, oh lets not forget you need to coordinate during an AV fight.

If it was this simple, it wouldve been done already. If it was this simple, youde have scholars sitting by av spawn area just ganking people AV pops the minute it turns yellow. Its not this simple. It is not a reliable strategy yet.

At this moment it simply doesnt work. Best I have heard of was knocking off 75%ish of Hydras HP. Which is phenominal, but not a oneshot. All it really did was take you past the annoying part before nerve gas.

[Hanayaka]

(Also, was the 25% damage from a smaller group of SCH, 6 or so? I can't find the post anymore, but even with the additional 3 SCH, you're only going to push AV's health down to a level where he's gained damage resistance.)

The post can be found as the first post on page 2 of this thread.

That was done using 4 Scholars. 1 to cast the helix, 3 to instantly Modus Veritas. A corsair then used Wild Card, and then all 4 (original 3 + helix caster) proceeded to Modus Veritas again, meaning a total of 7 Modii landed.

Had 2 more landed, it would have been a 1-shot. However, in over 30 attempts, we got mixed results. Often we chunked it for 7% or 11%, based on the initial helix damage, and only once did we drop it to 75%. Many times the helix even wore before any ticks went off (due to bad timing).

After finishing a few more scholars, our attempts to land 9 modii went very poorly as well. The timing is very difficult to pull off, and it could be seen in our scholar's log that the helix wore off BEFORE it even landed in his log.

It looked like:

[:00]Absolute Virtue's helix effect wears off.
[:00]SCH1 uses Modus Veritas.
[:00]SCH2 uses Modus Veritas.
[:00]SCH3 uses Modus Veritas.
[:01]SCH4 uses Modus Veritas.
[:01]SCH5 uses Modus Veritas.
[:01]SCH6 uses Modus Veritas.
[:01]SCH7 uses Modus Veritas.
[:01]SCH8 uses Modus Veritas.
[:01]SCH9 uses Modus Veritas.
[:02]Laution casts Cryohelix

I know the chat log has lag issues and can't always be trusted, but needless to say, the window of opportunity is very small and very difficult to take advantage of. That won't stop us from continuing to try though

[Arcanesoul]

The math works out nicely, but start adding perturbations in like network latency, reaction time, delay in applying MV, and that 3.4 sec window diminishes very fast.

If it's killed once with this method, I'll be happy to see it, but if it becomes consistently replicable, I would rather see it nerfed (unless it takes a year to perfect of course). I hope SE really wait and see what the outcome is rather than preemptively nerf it. It would be nice as an option for 1/100 chance, since I'm sure people will still try to find a legitimate way to kill AV, whatever that may be. If success rate sucks players will still try to find a better solution.

[Linktri]

Will. Get. Nerfed.

Square Enix doesn't give a shit what any of us think about it. If an alliance full of DRKs wasn't the right way to do it, then why the fuck would SE let an alliance full of SCHs do what the DRKs weren't permitted to do?

When SE nerfs this, and they will, just remember all of the supergeniuses that said nothing will happen. Remember that suave mother fucker that said about salvage duping, "No one will get banned for this. Ever." or some variation upon that theme? Yeah, that shit was sigworthy two weeks later when a few hundred people didn't just get the ban hammer, but the ban pipe wrench right between the eyes.

Do I want them to nerf it? Nah. Will they? Yep. Kill it (if you can) while you can.

[Virtuous Saint]

Will. Get. Nerfed.

Square Enix doesn't give a shit what any of us think about it. If an alliance full of DRKs wasn't the right way to do it, then why the fuck would SE let an alliance full of SCHs do what the DRKs weren't permitted to do?

When SE nerfs this, and they will, just remember all of the supergeniuses that said nothing will happen. Remember that suave mother fucker that said about salvage duping, "No one will get banned for this. Ever." or some variation upon that theme? Yeah, that shit was sigworthy two weeks later when a few hundred people didn't just get the ban hammer, but the ban pipe wrench right between the eyes.

Do I want them to nerf it? Nah. Will they? Yep. Kill it (if you can) while you can.

Then again everything said they would ban players or stop SMN burning, but that has yet to happen.

[Virtuous Saint]

For the sake of argument lets say all 9SCHs are botting it, and they have the bot set to use MV when '(player) says something). The player who says something is the person timing it, who knows how to time it well. So that person just had w/e typed out, and hits enter about 1sec before the window opens to give the bots time to react. Imo that would get it to work depending on the player triggering the bots.

[Cairthenn]

For the sake of argument lets say all 9SCHs are botting it, and they have the bot set to use MV when '(player) says something). The player who says something is the person timing it, who knows how to time it well. So that person just had w/e typed out, and hits enter about 1sec before the window opens to give the bots time to react. Imo that would get it to work depending on the player triggering the bots.

You're essentially saying to do exactly what I had set up to be done (and is displayed in the first video)? Yes it works very well..It can be done manually like this too, there is enough time to react (in my opinion, if you are focusing on nothing else) and is far more reliable than spamming form what I've seen.

[Jakson]

Then again everything said they would ban players or stop SMN burning, but that has yet to happen.

Yeah, but weren't people duping for like 2 years before it got patched and the bans?

[Acturus]

Yeah, but weren't people duping for like 2 years before it got patched and the bans?

Yes, but SE never admitted to knowing about it from the start.

[Gtype954]

Its been killed 2 weeks ago by a JP LS, its just been very hush hush so that other ppl can try it. This strat is pretty damn hard to do but anyone with sea access can have a chance to AV as long as they have a good sch75 leveled.
They got the title for the first time ever and it was after the k-club zerg. I would assume its from the sch MV burn as a SCH was spotted with the title who had never had the title before.

Don't compare this to dupping. Duping is creating a new item and its more of a serious glitch then outright killing something with a very high merit stack helix. It would be like banning kc-lub drks to killing AV, it WILL get nerfed no doubt 100%, but SCHs won't be getting banned for killing AV with this method unless they found a way to dupe the mar's rings and other gears.

[Staleyx]

Proof?

[Corrderio]

Proof?

This

[Flokk_9]

AV has been too broken and too ridiculous for too long. Hope this works and hope it doesn't get nerfed.