Goodbye present - how to kill AV (before it's patched)

[Thorny]

In theory this might work, but so would a 18 smn summoner burn. But sadly the problem with these theories is assuming AV just stands there and takes it like a bitch for the even 5-6 seconds.

It looks like after n amount of modus it auto wears just from such short duration, so what I forsee happening is you do manage to successfully pull off this with 8-9 schs on AV and knock him down to 30~40% Hp, maybe even 25%.

AV then replies with a benediction, pops bracelet mode, and then drops your entire alliance with a meteor. Mayhaps this would work though if you went for a midpoint between this technique and the "proper" way that SE wants, via breaking regen, locking 2 hours, specificly the really dangerous ones that'll wipe alliance like chainspell and manafont, and benediction, then slowly work AV down til he gets low.

Then the moment hes on the verge of bracelet mode use the modus trick and hope its enough to kill him, or at least get him so low the DDs can finish him off. Even then there's a strong possibility of one guy fucking up and Av surviving, people messing up, etc, resulting in AV flipping the fuck out on the whole alliance and blasting you all with metero before you get a chance to recoup.

Even if you could reliably do 40%, it's a method of damage that can still be done in bracelets mode. People can live for reasonable amounts of time during bracelets and during 2hrs such as PD you can safely set it up(it doesn't even pull hate!).

[frodnonnag]

In theory this might work, but so would a 18 smn summoner burn. But sadly the problem with these theories is assuming AV just stands there and takes it like a bitch for the even 5-6 seconds.

It looks like after n amount of modus it auto wears just from such short duration, so what I forsee happening is you do manage to successfully pull off this with 8-9 schs on AV and knock him down to 30~40% Hp, maybe even 25%.

AV then replies with a benediction, pops bracelet mode, and then drops your entire alliance with a meteor. Mayhaps this would work though if you went for a midpoint between this technique and the "proper" way that SE wants, via breaking regen, locking 2 hours, specificly the really dangerous ones that'll wipe alliance like chainspell and manafont, and benediction, then slowly work AV down til he gets low.

Then the moment hes on the verge of bracelet mode use the modus trick and hope its enough to kill him, or at least get him so low the DDs can finish him off. Even then there's a strong possibility of one guy fucking up and Av surviving, people messing up, etc, resulting in AV flipping the fuck out on the whole alliance and blasting you all with metero before you get a chance to recoup.

do the fight normally, weaken regen by killing pets/nuking day, and lock bene/rape2hours while taking him down to about 65%. pop the full 9 helix then, my maths say you are overkilling him by roughly 15k damage, and considering this is all done before bracelets mode and counts as 1 hit, the damage is all done before he switches resistances and shit.

[Overburn]

I'm not 100% on the working of SCH, but do you need 9 Well geared SCHs or just 1 well geared SCH and 8 dummy SCHs with MV merited? If it was the later, it doesn't sound too hard if you were to find 8 people willing to merit their SCHs.

[Kipling]

I actually meant that it still makes me lol. Not trying to be a sarcastic bitch for once.

I know when you're lying!

Spoiler: show

<3

[Kaeko]

Very disappointed the OP chose to post this information before killing anything of value first. The test video posted is also flawed as only 6 MVs have to land to kill that UFO. The only way to prove you've landed 9 is to use it on a target that requires 9 to kill or doesn't kill.

That's all I'll say until I can talk to the other Odin leaders.

[Corrderio]

do the fight normally, weaken regen by killing pets/nuking day, and lock bene/rape2hours while taking him down to about 65%. pop the full 9 helix then, my maths say you are overkilling him by roughly 15k damage, and considering this is all done before bracelets mode and counts as 1 hit, the damage is all done before he switches resistances and shit.

I have to agree, taking AV to ~65 then trying this will probably be more effective. Though the rotating might get annoying.

[urat]

Exactly, even then it's looking like one would require almost bot level precision to pull this off, but I'm not a sch so I dunno about that stuff so it could be done by a very well trained group.

This has potential...

[Thorny]

AV supposedly gets -damage taken as it's hp drops, weakening it before you do your MV thing might kill the point.

[Hercule]

If the original caster of the base Helix spell,

Is a SCH/BLM taru, with full INT merited,
+ Got soulvoice BRD INT songs (+18 INT?) + COR MAB/MACC Songs
+ Food (lets say INT+5)
+ Elemental Seal
+ Focalization full merited (group 2) +25 MACC
+ Ebulience +20% potency
+ Stormsurge full merited (Weather + 7 INT on hailstorm) + Day of week + Stormsurge with Obi = +20% potency
+ Klimaform (Add magic accuracy if spell is same as weather)
+ Helix MAB/MACC full merited (group 1) (+10 MAB +15 MACC)
+ HQ Stave +15% potency/macc
+ BRD song for made NM weak to ice

I'm not sure about BRD songs ammont of INT, and probably i missed some other bonus we can get from others jobs...


But here we have for this base Helix Spell caster:

+ 55% Potency
+ 40 MACC (+ MACC from HQ stave, Weather/Day of week/Songs Rolls / Klimaform...)
+ 35 INT (include merits)
+ Elemental Seal
+ Equipment

This look hot for get a huge base Helix no?

[frodnonnag]

Very disappointed the OP chose to post this information before killing anything of value first. The test video posted is also flawed as only 6 MVs have to land to kill that UFO. The only way to prove you've landed 9 is to use it on a target that requires 9 to kill or doesn't kill.

That's all I'll say until I can talk to the other Odin leaders.

what would be a good target for this then? offhand the only NMs that have that high HP and are up constantly would be toau beastmen. devout radol ja would be my guess as a good target.

[Hanayaka]

Very disappointed the OP chose to post this information before killing anything of value first. The test video posted is also flawed as only 6 MVs have to land to kill that UFO. The only way to prove you've landed 9 is to use it on a target that requires 9 to kill or doesn't kill.

That's all I'll say until I can talk to the other Odin leaders.

Me too, Kaeko. I wanted to contact you as soon as we finished testing as you were the one who originally posted the idea.

I think we were about 3 weeks until we could get enough people on for final testing, we've burned 9 Scholars to 75 just to have 1 banned and 3 go MIA. I'll push my shell to finish testing before this gets patched.

But as I've said multiple times earlier, in over thirty tries, my linkshell has not been able to land all 9 Modii without it causing the helix to instantly wear. My friend's linkshell on Ramuh also had similar problems. I know for certain that 7 Modii can land without causing the helix to wear (As seen in my screenshot on page 2), I think the next thing that needs to be tested is whether 8 Modii can land without causing the helix to poof.

After that, it is just a matter of breaking regen, locking benediction, and getting a hold party that can hold AV while the scholars do small helix bursts with corsairs
resetting modus.

If you have any questions or would like to see screenshots of our logs, feel free to PM me here or at www.omenls.com.

[sruon]

If the original caster of the base Helix spell,

Is a SCH/BLM taru, with full INT merited,
+ Got soulvoice BRD INT songs (+18 INT?) + COR MAB/MACC Songs
+ Food (lets say INT+5)
+ Elemental Seal
+ Focalyzation full merited (group 2) +25 MACC
+ Ebulience +20% potency
+ Stormsurge full merited (Weather + 7 INT on hailstorm) + Day of week + Stormsurge with Obi = +20% potency
+ Klimaform (Add magic accuracy if spell is same as weather)
+ Helix MAB/MACC full merited (group 1) (+10 MAB +15 MACC)
+ HQ Stave +15% potency/macc
+ BRD song for made NM weak to ice

I'm not sure about BRD songs ammont of INT, and probably i missed some other bonus we can get from others jobs...


But here we have for this base Helix Spell caster:

+ 55% Potency
+ 40 MACC (+ MACC from HQ stave, Weather/Day of week/Songs Rolls / Klimaform...)
+ 35 INT (include merits)
+ Elemental Seal
+ Equipment

This look hot for get a huge base Helix no?

Don't quote me on that, but I think SV INT etudes are in the +40 range and +7 on food (Cream puff).

Also threnody is going to be a hassle more than anything, it doesn't make it take more damage, just lowers resistance... and AV isn't even that resistant, have yet to see a resist with ES

[frodnonnag]

If the original caster of the base Helix spell,

Is a SCH/BLM taru, with full INT merited,
+ Got soulvoice BRD INT songs (+18 INT?) + COR MAB/MACC Songs
+ Food (lets say INT+5)
+ Elemental Seal
+ Focalyzation full merited (group 2) +25 MACC
+ Ebulience +20% potency
+ Stormsurge full merited (Weather + 7 INT on hailstorm) + Day of week + Stormsurge with Obi = +20% potency
+ Klimaform (Add magic accuracy if spell is same as weather)
+ Helix MAB/MACC full merited (group 1) (+10 MAB +15 MACC)
+ HQ Stave +15% potency/macc
+ BRD song for made NM weak to ice

I'm not sure about BRD songs ammont of INT, and probably i missed some other bonus we can get from others jobs...


But here we have for this base Helix Spell caster:

+ 55% Potency
+ 40 MACC (+ MACC from HQ stave, Weather/Day of week/Songs Rolls / Klimaform...)
+ 35 INT (include merits)
+ Elemental Seal
+ Equipment

This look hot for get a huge base Helix no?

don't forget what smn can add to that, (right moonphase) +7 int, or random +18 int from carby. and +10% mab from dream shroud.

[Yugl]

Idea has been mentioned (And given reasonable support for its success), but was not attempted due to a lack of SCH. It's kind of disgusting how hype is necessary to make credible ideas worth testing (Or in this case, worth leveling SCH to test).

[Arthars]

nothing wrong with the finding and approach. its legit in terms of game mechanics

but lets be honest, we gotta get nailed when we kill it with 18 sch

fu se (in advance lol)

[Hercule]

From Clopedia Talk:Modus Veritas - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more

* No Modus = xdmg every 10 seconds
* 1 Modus = 2xdmg every 5 seconds
* 2 Modus = 2^2xdmg every 2.5 seconds
* 3 Modus = 2^3xdmg every 1.25 seconds
* 4 Modus = 2^4xdmg every 0.625 seconds
* 5 Modus = 2^5xdmg every 0.3125 seconds
* 6 Modus = 2^6xdmg every 0.15625 seconds

If other Sch's in the ally can use it too

* 18 Modus - 2^18xdmg every 0.00003814697265625 seconds

1 tic Every 0.00003814697265625 seconds with 18 Modus Veristas lool

[Cairthenn]

Because half the people in this thread have no clue what they're talking about and it's ruined anyways:

Around the first of August some very interesting and most certainly game-breaking news was brought to my attention through someone I had met not too long before. The condition of learning this information was that it wouldn't be spoken to a soul. Only about 30 people across all servers are "supposed to be aware of it". The information that was shared with me allowed a group of merely 11-12 people to instantly kill (quite literally one-shot) nearly any mob in the game. This list of mobs ranged from things as useless as Hydra to one of the mobs in the game who's corpse is most sought after: Absolute Virtue. The possibilities seemed nearly endless: the worth of the items dropped from this mob could potentially provide a relic per kill. Even if you weren't to sell the drops, having access to some of the most highly desired items in the game isn't a very common opportunity. It's quite alluring, in my opinion. Anyone provided with this information would most certainly strive to achieve such a goal as quickly as possible, especially with the potential of a fix.

Despite how simple sounding I've made this, the reality is that it's anything but. It most obviously requires the task of finding ten people that you trust enough to not blow your secret (I suppose I just couldn't manage, could I? In all honesty this post may very well piss off a good amount of people, but I don't feel they have room to complain). Truly, that must be the most difficult part of this all, considering you'd be working with hundreds of millions of Gil or more, if you persisted. Under normal circumstances this method would take quite a substantial amount of time to initially set up (I'm sure you've noticed by now I haven't even hinted at how this is possible, but don't worry) as it can't just be any random ten people you trust, it also requires a very specific assortment of level 75 jobs with appropriate merits. To be frank, most people will not have the appropriate jobs or merits already in place, and we all know how much of a headache leveling a job can be these days. However, this situation had its own remedy, the now popular "Summoner Burn" method of experience points, revealed to much of the public at the start of this year. Having been involved in one of the first few groups to experiment with Summoner burning, I had the process down very well and was able to make around 70k experience points an hour with a friend - each of us would play 3 characters at a time, two of which would have mule characters to use.

Within three days of finding out we had a pretty much set group of people and my friend and I began to get to work on leveling our own characters. After a few days, him, another good friend, and I had all reached 75 on our appropriate jobs. Though faster than normal parties, this process is obviously still very tiring and requires a great deal of work, so we were pleased with our quick progress. However, somewhere along the way it became expected that we were to level 6 other characters as well. We agreed with gritted teeth - after all, the merits weren't bad and the situation is all too exciting to let a simple obstacle get in the way. It took twenty or so days of work to finish everyone's characters, spending sometimes more than twelve hours per day on just this. I can't complain all too much on this fact, honestly: I got two more jobs to 75 in the process and I'm also literally capped on merits now (on a less interesting note, I'm sitting on 900,000 conquest points, woohoo!). I don't believe it's possible to completely imagine the relief of finally being done with leveling all these characters. Also, we'd no longer have to put up with the arrogant attitudes of Linkshell members screaming at us for skipping events, not that I care what they think of me anyways.

Immediately following the successful completion of our weeks of preparation, we set off to a NM with high HP that was never touched, namely Hydra, to experiment on. After a few hours it became obvious that this method required very precise timing and was going to be more difficult than even I initially thought. It wasn't expected that we'd kill it, as it's HP is unusually higher than most other things and it was our first attempt. I believe the lowest we were able to get it was 70%. That's clearly incredible, but it needs work to be functional. After a short while of further testing we were finally able to one-shot a mob with just the 10 of us, and we were incredibly excited to be able to down Absolute Virtue amongst other things.

As you can imagine, the desire to put our effort into action was honestly overwhelming. After the countless days of hard work, we were very excited to finally be able to kill something and very eager to do so. However, the sentiments didn't seem to be shared among the entire group; for whatever reason almost nobody else seemed interested (and I honestly can't imagine why) in doing much with the exception my two friends and I. It was quite disheartening, we felt, to spend all this time to help people who reciprocate almost none in return. After all, we were at the simple part, the experimentation and the kill. The thought of repeating this all with a more ambitious and sensible group of people even seemed treacherous; what if the same thing were to happen again, leaving us with incompetent morons once more? Quite honestly we just said "Fuck it."
The following information is really not mine to tell at all, as I had essentially promised not to. Regardless, I feel justified in making this decision and apologise in advance if this post ruins anyone's ongoing plans and I fully understand any anger directed at me. I'm sure you had your fun while it lasted.

I thought it would be cute if I could reveal this in a crafty way but that'll probably just make me seem like an asshole. Oh well.
Modus Veritas, possibly one of the most useless abilities at a first glance, is the answer to this long-winded story. The description of the job ability reads that it "Increases damage done by helix spells while lowering spell duration by 50%." The ability is also known to stack. How is that useful, you may ask? Well, it's essentially not. If you throw together some quick numbers you could find that out. On average an unresisted helix will do around 60 damage (assuming 50% magic damage reduction). A 60 damage Helix multiplied by two to the power of ten (ten being the number of scholars to use Modus Veritas) will yield 61,440 damage. However, that comes at a cost. The initial duration of a Helix spell is 60 seconds. If you divide 60 by two to the power of ten, you will find that your Helix will last for an outstanding .06 seconds! Clearly that's a very useful duration for the helix to last, considering damage only occurs once every ten seconds. In fact, accounting for the lag to use the job ability, the spell will wear off before the last Scholar even is able to use Modus Veritas, completely removing the possibility to do this unrealistic amount of damage.

The part of this that goes unnoticed (it's quite amusing actually, the above method was actually proposed and disproven on Wiki) is the Scholar merit "Modus Veritas Duration." Most Scholars I know of haven't even considered meriting this because of its assumed uselessness. In all honesty, the wording for the merit itself is rather poor and may stray some away from it. Every merit increase reduces the reduced duration of Modus Veritas (50%) by 10% per level. This means 10% of 50% each time, or 5% less duration decrease per merit. Modus Veritas with max merits will reduce the remaining time of a Helix spell by 75% instead of by 50%. Though this will not make too huge of a difference to a solo Scholar, the same cannot be said for when it is stacked. If we were to reuse the previous example yielding 61,440 damage, the total duration that helix would be on for would instead be 60 Seconds * .75(^10) or 3.4 seconds. It's quite the big difference, if I may say so myself.

Unfortunately, a Helix spell tics every 10 seconds, so 3.4 seconds clearly isn't long enough, right? Well, the Helix tics a constant time based on the server clock (the thing you get when you /clock), not every ten seconds after the initial damage is dealt. If you haven't put two and two together yet or simply lack common sense, with proper timing and execution, you can cause the Helix to land about 3 seconds before it tics, get 10 Modus Veritas off (the Scholar that casts the spell is generally unable to use Modus Veritas due to the lag between a cast and the ability to use another action), and have the spell tic moments before it wears. Fascinating, no? Most certainly broken, but entirely in line with the intended game mechanics. Quite honestly, I wish people would have expressed more interest in this because it's certainly something I would have liked to exploit as much as possible (who wouldn't have, really?) even with the possibility of getting our AV logs investigated, being LM-17'd and being laughed at by the hundreds on forums. I suppose I ruined that chance, too.

The post I had ready but was never going to actually post.

I'm really disappointed Seedz, and you fucked over some people who had no reason to be fucked over from trying this - getting banned was your own fault.


To people who are going to try this: In all likelihood, you will NOT be able to pull it off.

If you DO have people ready for this and want to try it, you can PM me as I pretty much perfected how to do it. I'd like to see it dead but it won't happen. It's near impossible to pull off with 10 people and you need perfect gear and buffs to do it with 9.

[Mizango]

=O

[Kipling]

What was he banned for?

[Seanr]

Good Night sweet AV Prince?