Goodbye present - how to kill AV (before it's patched)

[Cairthenn]

Oh, I think I misunderstood the timing issue. Is it that it's not a problem of timing it so everyone uses their MV before the next tic, but rather a problem of timing the tics so that the MV-shortened helix effect doesn't wear off before one actually occurs?

This is exactly the issue. I've worked it down to be able to work with me using MV as well. There is a way where I wouldn't be using MV (spamming MV while timing Helix landing) which I assume to be much easier.

Instead, I would time the actual use of MV using OnEvent which would execute mine and everyone elses MV off of a party chat line I had in my Helix casting script.

[Cairthenn]

has anybody tried this on tougher NMs yet? Vrtra? Jormy? Bueller? Bueller?

If I'm not mistaken, Jormungand has been one-shotted, but it was more of a fluke and some luck. It's not like this hasn't been done, even the silly Om'yovra example that was first posted is perfect evidence - 9 goes off and it dies, that's all you need.

[Yugl]

So much hidden information. I wonder why Apathy is the only group to take burns for hiding information.

Edit: Strategy not hidden, but much like with Apathy, it wasn't "confirmed" if you get what I mean.

[Correction]

So much hidden information. I wonder why Apathy is the only group to take burns for hiding information.

Edit: Strategy not hidden, but much like with Apathy, it wasn't "confirmed" if you get what I mean.

Are you reading the thread? They had every intention of sharing info once something of value had been killed with the method. With this info now out in the public sharing it has near zero value due to the nature of the technique.

[Cairthenn]

So much hidden information. I wonder why Apathy is the only group to take burns for hiding information.

Edit: Strategy not hidden, but much like with Apathy, it wasn't "confirmed" if you get what I mean.

This is simply because they flaunted their hidden information in front of others, theres much more out there but you really can't yell at nonexistent people for glitches you aren't aware of.

To all the people who are sending me PMs and anyone else, good luck if you are actually going to attempt this as it is a lot more difficult than it seems on paper. There is very little room for error and a lot of ways to fuck up.

[Suiram]

I'm confused about why you're so strongly emphasizing one person being able to both cast the helix and use MV, as opposed to just letting one person cast it and everyone else use MV. If anything you don't want any more MVs than you'd need to kill the mob, right? Since if all it takes is 9 MVs to bring the damage up high enough to kill a particular mob, all 10 (or 11, etc) is going to do is lessen the chance that a tic occurs in the intervening window before the spell wears (likewise for using 9 if the mob you are fighting only requires 8, or whatever).

I guess what I'm asking about timing is this. If you get at least 3.4 seconds of time after the spell lands before it wears, and you can get 9 people (not including the caster) spamming MV so that they all go off within let's say a half second after it's used, then you should have a 1/3 chance of pulling it off just by going at a random time. And yet it sounds (from Kaeko's post) like it's much more rare and difficult than that. So what am I missing?

[vivix]

My understanding is that the theoretical window is 3.4s, but in practice it seems much smaller. Thats why I was wondering if anybody/everybody was using some type of autoexec or w/e its called in ffxiapp.

[Cairthenn]

I'm confused about why you're so strongly emphasizing one person being able to both cast the helix and use MV, as opposed to just letting one person cast it and everyone else use MV. If anything you don't want any more MVs than you'd need to kill the mob, right? Since if all it takes is 9 MVs to bring the damage up high enough to kill a particular mob, all 10 (or 11, etc) is going to do is lessen the chance that a tic occurs in the intervening window before the spell wears (likewise for using 9 if the mob you are fighting only requires 8, or whatever).

I guess what I'm asking about timing is this. If you get at least 3.4 seconds of time after the spell lands before it wears, and you can get 9 people (not including the caster) spamming MV so that they all go off within let's say a half second after it's used, then you should have a 1/3 chance of pulling it off just by going at a random time. And yet it sounds (from Kaeko's post) like it's much more rare and difficult than that. So what am I missing?

The only reason we did this is because it's hard to get together a large number of SCH who are fully merited who you actually trust to keep this a secret, of course that isn't a problem any more.

[S N K]

Good read. Best of luck to those that try and pull this off. SE really deserves whatever players throw at them for killing stupid mobs.

[Aksannyi]

If this worked, I'd probably come back just to do it. My SCH was 67, that's a few astral burns. XD

[Cairthenn]

If this worked, I'd probably come back just to do it. My SCH was 67, that's a few astral burns. XD

It would take around 9-10 hours to finish it with merits but it's likely not worth your time.

[Suiram]

My understanding is that the theoretical window is 3.4s, but in practice it seems much smaller. Thats why I was wondering if anybody/everybody was using some type of autoexec or w/e its called in ffxiapp.

My understanding from reading Kaeko's post is that 3.4s is the bare minimum window that you get with 9 MVs since it's based on the original helix's duration which is at least 45 seconds, so it's really a 3.4~6.7s window. And this strategy would go from being pretty cool to pretty sad if you needed a bot to do it effectively, but it sounds like it actually isn't needed. Plus I thought that ffxipp doesn't work anymore, or did I totally misread that other thread?

[Wulfgang]

So if I'm reading this right, damage formula is:

(Helix Base DMG) * (2)^(n-1)

where n = # of SCHs (-1 because the helix casting one can't modus?)

Assuming 130 base dmg, 66,560 dmg in one tick?

[stewie]

So if I'm reading this right, damage formula is:

(Helix Base DMG) * (2)^(n-1)

where n = # of SCHs (-1 because the helix casting one can't modus?)

Assuming 130 base dmg, 66,560 dmg in one tick?

Yes.

[Yugl]

Are you reading the thread? They had every intention of sharing info once something of value had been killed with the method. With this info now out in the public sharing it has near zero value due to the nature of the technique.

I think the question is are you reading the thread. Unless you think they went out and did this within hours of this thread's creation, it would seem like the information has been there for a while.

This is simply because they flaunted their hidden information in front of others, theres much more out there but you really can't yell at nonexistent people for glitches you aren't aware of.

To all the people who are sending me PMs and anyone else, good luck if you are actually going to attempt this as it is a lot more difficult than it seems on paper. There is very little room for error and a lot of ways to fuck up.

Got it. I'm just a bit perplexed by the response thus far. I would expect:

- OMG NEW IDEA (From people who have never read AV threads since this idea comes up often)
- Rage from people tired of hidden information
- Rage from people who know of this method already and were aware that it wasn't fully implemented due to the lack of SCH

Some interesting surprises:

- The first listed response, but with a motivation to level SCH
- No rage about hiding information
- I would say the sheer number of people ignorant of this idea


On the other hand, I've advocated MV merits to SCHs on Diabolos for this very reason, so hopefully they actually took my advice. If people want to try this, I would start a thread (Read: Maybe not a thread if it angers the mods) for people on servers with MV fully merited (Obviously listing their Name and Server).

[Cairthenn]

My understanding from reading Kaeko's post is that 3.4s is the bare minimum window that you get with 9 MVs since it's based on the original helix's duration which is at least 45 seconds, so it's really a 3.4~6.7s window. And this strategy would go from being pretty cool to pretty sad if you needed a bot to do it effectively, but it sounds like it actually isn't needed. Plus I thought that ffxipp doesn't work anymore, or did I totally misread that other thread?

Assuming the caster does not need to MV (you have an extra scholar), yes this is correct.

So if I'm reading this right, damage formula is:

(Helix Base DMG) * (2)^(n-1)

where n = # of SCHs (-1 because the helix casting one can't modus?)

Assuming 130 base dmg, 66,560 dmg in one tick?

Congratulations, you just worked out the simplest part!

[Aksannyi]

It would take around 9-10 hours to finish it with merits but it's likely not worth your time.

I think I may have quit with a few unspent merits, but hell I can't remember. Certainly not worth logging in just to check that.

Was mostly kidding anyway. I don't really have any plans to come back to the game.

[Wulfgang]

Congratulations, you just worked out the simplest part!

Thanks, was very difficult.

[Asmoranomar]

Sorry if there was confusion, but that screenshot is only 7 MVs. 2 more would have been a 100% kill. However, we have tried many many many times to land 9. For some reason, the Helix instantly wears, preventing us from one-shotting it.

Anyone consider that perhaps SE has already thought about this? It sounds strange that Helix instantly wears - I'm no SCH, but it might be worthwhile to see how long a helix lasts on AV? Perhaps SE nerfed helix to be less than 60s on AV?

[Cairthenn]

Anyone consider that perhaps SE has already thought about this? It sounds strange that Helix instantly wears - I'm no SCH, but it might be worthwhile to see how long a helix lasts on AV? Perhaps SE nerfed helix to be less than 60s on AV?

No.

Our group was able to land 9 very reliably, it's just a simple necessity of working it down to the millisecond in all possible helix durations and human error (time still passes between MVs unless they are actually simultaneous). Occasionally there would be an otherwise explainable fuck up, but chances are it just wasn't done correctly.