Nobody Cares About Moblin Maze Mongers.

[Viq]

Hey guys, someone in my LS beat AV. I don't have screenshots, and I don't care to verify. He has no reason to lie.

[BRP]

Like most things it breaks down to people who enjoy the content think it's good, and are happy when they announce additions/expansions to it, while people who don't enjoy it can't seem to see how anyone could, and wish SE would spend more of their time and resources on stuff that they personally enjoy.

Interesting idea. I wonder what happens you apply people who enjoy nothing about FFXI but still play into the mix.

[wipers]

I fall into the mix of still playing FFXI but don't enjoy it.

[Suiram]

Interesting idea. I wonder what happens you apply people who enjoy nothing about FFXI but still play into the mix.

"fix kings"

[ronin sparthos]

I mean any god damn NM idiot, and you obviously could change their behavior and abilities at your leisure. DL, AV, PW, ANYTHING jesus you have to paint a picture for people apparently.

Did I say I wanted them to drop their items? Fafnir is full of useless items, why in the fuck would I want it to drop those. Btw I only presented 1 example numb nuts^^, but I guess you didn't understand 'any NM I desired'.

Also JESUS you are stupid, I said 'whenever I desired' which meant whenever the fuck I wanted to fight a random NM for fun, thanks buddy I know you can enter MMM a million fucking times a day if you had enough people.

I obviously meant you could choose an NM and in order to obtain certain drops from it you had to make it harder, similar to how hard the NMs in there have to be currently. Also they would all be immune to sleep, ES sleep nuking something to death is probably the dumbest thing SE could possibly allow.

Again, I know how terrible ALL augments are, and how completely terrible the augments system is, it is NOT just MMM, but it is MMM too.

So you thought MMM would be debug mode in XI?

While the original concept of MMM implied being able to actually make the layout of the dungeon, being able to drag any NM from any part of the game would be a quick novelty that wore off the minute SE had to counterbalance that with no drops. It'd also be used as a practice ground for NMs which basically takes away from this grand picture SE has that boss mobs are supposed to be challenging. (Not that i agree with SE on this)

Lets not even get into the PS2 limitations that obviously would be present.

We all know what happens when you give people the power to do anything, they attach rewards to trash mobs then complain when it gets boring. MMM 07 allows for challenging mobs, decent drops and the convenience of not having to leave Lower Jeuno or compete against your servers dickstrokers.

I guess you thought MMM was going to be some area where all the AV theories could be tested without repercussion? Yeah, no.

Make mobs harder? If i could pick any NM id just keep picking shitty Crab NMs and make them hard enough to get drops. That is exactly what would happen to MMM if you could pick anything. My proof? Look at Fay NMs, do you see people doing anything outside Grauberg even though there are different choices? No. Case and point.

[Starr]

I must say I was expecting real bosses with real good drops in MMM and it is so far a disappointment, piss easy bosses, rediculously low drop rates and items that are ok. Obviously they have the ability to make it a 12 man event with an hour timer in which they could throw real HNMs with really good drops but who'd want that? People would then bitch about having to fight in some dingy little hole for everything and it's repetetive, everything is instanced so "it's turning into WoW" etc.

[Gergall]

piss easy bosses

With certain runes, you can make bosses that are absurdly difficult.

[Virtuous Saint]

So you thought MMM would be debug mode in XI?

While the original concept of MMM implied being able to actually make the layout of the dungeon, being able to drag any NM from any part of the game would be a quick novelty that wore off the minute SE had to counterbalance that with no drops. It'd also be used as a practice ground for NMs which basically takes away from this grand picture SE has that boss mobs are supposed to be challenging. (Not that i agree with SE on this)

Lets not even get into the PS2 limitations that obviously would be present.

We all know what happens when you give people the power to do anything, they attach rewards to trash mobs then complain when it gets boring. MMM 07 allows for challenging mobs, decent drops and the convenience of not having to leave Lower Jeuno or compete against your servers dickstrokers.

I guess you thought MMM was going to be some area where all the AV theories could be tested without repercussion? Yeah, no.

Make mobs harder? If i could pick any NM id just keep picking shitty Crab NMs and make them hard enough to get drops. That is exactly what would happen to MMM if you could pick anything. My proof? Look at Fay NMs, do you see people doing anything outside Grauberg even though there are different choices? No. Case and point.

Ya Grauberg is the only area people go to because obviously it is the easiest and more people have done it thus more experience so shout groups will always go there along with other groups, but that is due to SE being so stupid. Why release all different areas to simply have the same augments, it is not only a waste of the dev's time, but it was simply a retarded idea.

If you really want your stupid fucking NMs to drop the items that's cool, it doesn't matter. All I am saying is MMM would be a lot better if you could fight w/e NM you wanted, when you wanted. Practice, anything, some people have fun killing NMs, idk if you knew that.


Also, ya sure you should be able to place AV in a maze you created, make it much weaker and find out solo how its AI functions, and maybe someone would find out their RETARDED fucking secrets. It isn't the player base's fault that the dev team made a mob where the secret to kill it is virtually impossible to find. They were so stupid that they didn't even have AV /say hints as to what you needed to do, and that is EXACTLY why no one would ever be able to figure out their god damn stupid secrets. AV is also far and beyond too hard for people to test things on, it always has been.

It's almost like Salvage, but the secrets are even more mind numbingly stupid, however Salvage was able to be tested and most of the secrets were eventually found (remember when SE stated that if no one used cells on first floor bhaf that the frog would spawn, I mean how fucking ridiculous, like how could you expect someone to find that out).

[Antithesis]

Ronin beat me to it but check this out:

Einherjar is nothing more than another event with shitty drop rates that you need other people to do.
Salvage is nothing more than another event with shitty drop rates that you need other people to do.
Assault is nothing more than another event with shitty drop rates that you need other people to do.
Dynamis is nothing more than another event with shitty drop rates that you need other people to do.
Limbus is nothing more than another event with shitty drop rates that you need other people to do.
KSNM/BCNM/ENM is nothing more than another event with shitty drop rates that you need other people to do.

inb4 "i solo ENMs and Limbus". Good for you. I solo MMM.

Einherjar is probably one of the best things to happen to this game (Post Patch (Included in ToAU no suprise.)) It is an event where, if planned properly, you can fight the super boss every third run. Not only does he drop his own specific armor, but armor from other various Notorious Monsters that are usually over camped or have skewed drop rates. In addition, the drop rate is more or less fair for the various items he drops. If you are complaining about Hadean and Shadow Abjuration armor then yes, that is probably one of the few faults Einherjar has.

Besides the piss poor drop rates, Salvage is a very inventive and well thought out event for the most part (Drop rates again, certain areas, etc.) It can be very fun if played with the proper people and rewards you with some of the best armor in the game as well as Alexandrite ( Drop rate on Alexandrite up for interpretation.)

Assault, when first introduced, was like gods gift to the players. An instance event with various missions and objectives and moderate to excellent rewards once you accumulate enough points in addition to being pretty cool and fun.

Even if Dynamis is the longest, and most headache filled event we have, it still has various values. Drop rate on armors have increased over the past couple of years which is nice but even before then; the drop rates were somewhat resonable with the exception of Outlands and Dreamland Dynamis (Which many consider to be the most important ones.) Lets not forget the ancient currency and relic weapons that come from this event also.

Limbus has fantastic rewards depending on your job at the end of the road (Homam and various AF+1 armors.) The event can be as short as twenty minutes to as long as almost two hours. Drop rates are rather low but Ancient Beastcoins provide a good incentive to keep going at it (Especially when they use to be more than 100% profit.)

KSNM / BCNM / ISNM / ENM. All of these Prefix-NM events have their own little niche and rules. That does not deter the fact that various amounts of money can be made off of these events and all of them only take 15 minutes, 30 minutes or in the case of KSNM99, a full hour. Some of the battles are tedious but some can be cool and rather fun.

Moblin Maze Mongers offers up some great rewards but the amount of trouble and shitty ass monsters you have to face almost does not make it worth it. People have fought for days and days the same NM over and over and what do they get in return? Nothing. When you fight those mobs its almost ALWAYS either All or nothing. You either get that Gnole Torque or that Koggelmander or you get nothing. Most of the time (90%) it is nothing. In every other event you at least get multiple forms of compensation and will most of the time walk away with something (Sometimes, even if you LOOSE the event you still get stuff.) This hardly applies to Moblin Maze Mongers. If you succeed you play Russian Roulette with the event's horrible drop system. If you loose you hardly get enough marbles in return for the trouble you went to. MMM is all about tedious spamming and repetition. One could say that is what ALL events are but, where MMM takes the repetition is to a never-changing boring extreme. The only thing that probably saves it is the unique Experience Points camps it can offer for the time you are there.

[Suiram]

It's almost like Salvage, but the secrets are even more mind numbingly stupid, however Salvage was able to be tested and most of the secrets were eventually found (remember when SE stated that if no one used cells on first floor bhaf that the frog would spawn, I mean how fucking ridiculous, like how could you expect someone to find that out).

I don't think SE gave any hints about salvage. It was all figured out by the players eventually. On the one hand that whole process was awesome as a community and fun to participate in. On the other hand, if it was now 3 years later and people still couldn't get ares hands or feet, morrigan feet, marduk body or head, skadi legs, or usu hands, I do think everyone involved would be pretty pissed (which is basically what AV is lol).

[Baelorn]

Bolded: The entirety of FFXI, not exclusive to MMM.

That was exactly the point. Instead of fixing the problem they replicated it in yet another event. Then they keep wasting time on that event instead of fixing the old events that people actually do.

MMM was more popular in the beginning but they nerfed it because their servers couldn't handle the load. They reduced marble drops and added conservation points so people would do less MMM. This made a lot of people stop doing it altogether. Now that people do less MMM, a lot less, they continue to add to it and expect people to care. Those few who do care can't get people to go with them so they either give up or drag LS members along every now or then. They still don't get the drop and the people they're taking along, who originally wanted their own MMM items, say fuck it and quit going.

The R/Ex items aren't good enough to keep people interested either. The augment type items are as hit or miss as FoV augments but with more work thrown in. Most of the Weapons and Armor drops are garbage with few exceptions. A sword that is only situationally good for one job, an earring that is only good for people looking to get the absolute max out of their gear sets, a dagger that is just an alternative to something you can buy(and could likely get the gil for faster than you could get it in MMM), and an hMP torque that is barley better than a 50k item from the AH.

Oh I forgot you can get exp in MMM too. Too bad no one wants to go because you can end up getting horribly raped by terrible exp mobs. I'm sure you and your friends have a ton of laughs when you waste time and die but good luck getting an exp pt to go again if that happens.

MMM was a good idea. Fucking terrible execution.

[Gergall]

Einherjar is probably one of the best things to happen to this game (Post Patch (Included in ToAU no suprise.)) It is an event where, if planned properly, you can fight the super boss every third run. Not only does he drop his own specific armor, but armor from other various Notorious Monsters that are usually over camped or have skewed drop rates. In addition, the drop rate is more or less fair for the various items he drops. If you are complaining about Hadean and Shadow Abjuration armor then yes, that is probably one of the few faults Einherjar has.

Besides the piss poor drop rates, Salvage is a very inventive and well thought out event for the most part (Drop rates again, certain areas, etc.) It can be very fun if played with the proper people and rewards you with some of the best armor in the game as well as Alexandrite ( Drop rate on Alexandrite up for interpretation.)

Assault, when first introduced, was like gods gift to the players. An instance event with various missions and objectives and moderate to excellent rewards once you accumulate enough points in addition to being pretty cool and fun.

Even if Dynamis is the longest, and most headache filled event we have, it still has various values. Drop rate on armors have increased over the past couple of years which is nice but even before then; the drop rates were somewhat resonable with the exception of Outlands and Dreamland Dynamis (Which many consider to be the most important ones.) Lets not forget the ancient currency and relic weapons that come from this event also.

Limbus has fantastic rewards depending on your job at the end of the road (Homam and various AF+1 armors.) The event can be as short as twenty minutes to as long as almost two hours. Drop rates are rather low but Ancient Beastcoins provide a good incentive to keep going at it (Especially when they use to be more than 100% profit.)

KSNM / BCNM / ISNM / ENM. All of these Prefix-NM events have their own little niche and rules. That does not deter the fact that various amounts of money can be made off of these events and all of them only take 15 minutes, 30 minutes or in the case of KSNM99, a full hour. Some of the battles are tedious but some can be cool and rather fun.

Moblin Maze Mongers offers up some great rewards but the amount of trouble and shitty ass monsters you have to face almost does not make it worth it. People have fought for days and days the same NM over and over and what do they get in return? Nothing. When you fight those mobs its almost ALWAYS either All or nothing. You either get that Gnole Torque or that Koggelmander or you get nothing. Most of the time (90%) it is nothing. In every other event you at least get multiple forms of compensation and will most of the time walk away with something (Sometimes, even if you LOOSE the event you still get stuff.) This hardly applies to Moblin Maze Mongers. If you succeed you play Russian Roulette with the event's horrible drop system. If you loose you hardly get enough marbles in return for the trouble you went to. MMM is all about tedious spamming and repetition. One could say that is what ALL events are but, where MMM takes the repetition is to a never-changing boring extreme. The only thing that probably saves it is the unique Experience Points camps it can offer for the time you are there.

holy tl;dr batman

[Antithesis]

If you cant take the time to read that then I see no point in discussing this with you.

[Suiram]

Oh I forgot you can get exp in MMM too. Too bad no one wants to go because you can end up getting horribly raped by terrible exp mobs. I'm sure you and your friends have a ton of laughs when you waste time and die but good luck getting an exp pt to go again if that happens.

MMM was a good idea. Fucking terrible execution.

If you're wiping in exp run instead of clearing it fast and getting the best exp/h in FFXI outside of SMN burn, then something is fucking terrible, but it's not MMM lol

[Deimos]

Oh I forgot you can get exp in MMM too. Too bad no one wants to go because you can end up getting horribly raped by terrible exp mobs. I'm sure you and your friends have a ton of laughs when you waste time and die but good luck getting an exp pt to go again if that happens.

No you can't, provided you actually understand the system and use a proper maze. I've leveled my SAM from level 40 to 73 almost entirely in MMM (~10k in one party outside). I've never even died once, even though I'm the "tank". We've also never lost a run, though we did almost run out of time once when we decided to try doing it with a party of 4 instead of the usual 5.

Also, every random person that we've picked up to fill out the party has practically begged to be invited again the next time we go. If your story was an actual experience with MMM exp and not something you just made up, whoever took you was doing it horribly wrong.

[ronin sparthos]

That was exactly the point. Instead of fixing the problem they replicated it in yet another event. Then they keep wasting time on that event instead of fixing the old events that people actually do.

MMM was more popular in the beginning but they nerfed it because their servers couldn't handle the load. They reduced marble drops and added conservation points so people would do less MMM. This made a lot of people stop doing it altogether. Now that people do less MMM, a lot less, they continue to add to it and expect people to care. Those few who do care can't get people to go with them so they either give up or drag LS members along every now or then. They still don't get the drop and the people they're taking along, who originally wanted their own MMM items, say fuck it and quit going.

The R/Ex items aren't good enough to keep people interested either. The augment type items are as hit or miss as FoV augments but with more work thrown in. Most of the Weapons and Armor drops are garbage with few exceptions. A sword that is only situationally good for one job, an earring that is only good for people looking to get the absolute max out of their gear sets, a dagger that is just an alternative to something you can buy(and could likely get the gil for faster than you could get it in MMM), and an hMP torque that is barley better than a 50k item from the AH.

Oh I forgot you can get exp in MMM too. Too bad no one wants to go because you can end up getting horribly raped by terrible exp mobs. I'm sure you and your friends have a ton of laughs when you waste time and die but good luck getting an exp pt to go again if that happens.

MMM was a good idea. Fucking terrible execution.

FFXI is all about marginal gains? HOLY SHIT, im stunned.

It's a horribly weak point to argue on BG that 1MND isnt worth MMM when many people on these boards QQ and bitch if you arent wearing Lamian Kaman+1 vs the NQ. Mamool Ja Earring exists, it is only TIED by Celestial which for 99.9% of players would take longer to farm gil/star sapphires for. Let's not attempt to downplay the value of an item just because it's slightly out of the way for your typical player.

Let me guess, if you could setup a belfry that spawned nothing but Colibri for 30mins then MMM V01 would be fucking win, sign me up? It seems that this would please the masses and then QQ would start when queues to go in started shit among players.

The birds EXP in MMM is easy and if you are wiping to triple bats/bats then perhaps your group should go back to drawing board. The point is that it is an option and people are enjoying it, whereas others would rather complain because their party is being camped on top of at Greater Colibri yet again.

Id love more real EXP camps but MMM Voucher 01 is doable and feasible for someone who doesn't want to merit all day or become stressed out when you overwork the BRDs or CORs. It is not the new greater birds but it is an option for a group of people who want to quickly get some EXP and get out.

MMM was more popular in the beginning? The only reason MMM popularity dropped off the map was because uninformed morons who could not grasp the idea of doing Voucher 06 spread that "OMG SE NERFED OUR MARBLE FARMING" and the clueless masses ate that shit right up, myself included. Does it remind you of something? The BST paranoia that plagued early FF, the lolDRG sucks at everything and finally the lolPUP craze.

It's all the same shit, people who just don't know any better are convinced that something sucks before giving it an honest try. Ive done tons of MMM pickups where people come in knowing nothing and walk out having fun or learning that it wasn't as bad as people/friends were making it out to be.

[Bakthi]

Yeah, we didn't die when our RDM DC'd. It was just funny. One of about ten trillion reasons I don't merit with pickups.

How are the items "not good enough"? Once you reach a certain point, you have no option but to spend large amounts of time, gil, or both for tiny upgrades. That's just the way this game is. There are very few Byakko's Haidates and a whole lot of Corsair's Gun +1s (in terms of relative item value in a given slot, not in terms of how many exist). Then it's just a question of whether it's worth it to the individual. Obviously, this is different for everyone, for every item, just like some people enjoy MMM and others (clearly!) don't. Maybe you hate the thought of doing MMM for a Gnole Torque, but you have HQ zenith.

I don't think SE gave any hints about salvage. It was all figured out by the players eventually.

They did give one unintentional hint, which IIRC was a large part of the process of figuring out Zhayolm Remnants. There was some bit in a version update about how killing NMs in Zhayolm wasn't functioning as intended. That pointed people away from theories about opening a certain number of doors, etc. I think in a relatively short time after that, a few groups finally nailed it. It boils!

[Viq]

Also, every random person that we've picked up to fill out the party has practically begged to be invited again the next time we go. If your story was an actual experience with MMM exp and not something you just made up, whoever took you was doing it horribly wrong.

You forgot to mention that we've had people join our LS after nothing more than 2 nights of MMM exp with us because they wanted a better chance of getting in on the next run.

[Suiram]

They did give one unintentional hint, which IIRC was a large part of the process of figuring out Zhayolm Remnants. There was some bit in a version update about how killing NMs in Zhayolm wasn't functioning as intended. That pointed people away from theories about opening a certain number of doors, etc. I think in a relatively short time after that, a few groups finally nailed it. It boils!

Actually no, I know what you're referring to, and thought of that before I posted, but that's not the case either. People did bring it up from time to time, but it was never critical in figuring anything out. It was obviously in reference to 6th floor madame, and that was found within a week or so after 5th floor just because people finally had the ability to meet the requirements.

[Antithesis]

It's all the same shit, people who just don't know any better are convinced that something sucks before giving it an honest try. Ive done tons of MMM pickups where people come in knowing nothing and walk out having fun or learning that it wasn't as bad as people/friends were making it out to be.

I am sure there are plenty of people who think MMM is a great event and I do not detest them because they are entitled to their own opinion. However, for the other half that has done MMM; we think it's pretty shitty. The possible EXP Camps is, in my opinion, its only redeeming factor.