JoL Strategy

[Braeden]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/81727...questions.html

@ OP

seriously just read this thread. There's a lot of good info in it including why you just need 5 BLMs and a refresher for adds and no puller/holders. Any of the recommendations in that thread will work and don't require elite players/gear to execute. Do it right and JoL will be dead before his regen is.

[yotevol]

It will pop 3 phuabo -> 3 hpemde -> 3 xzomit and repeat that order 3x(9 summons, 27 mobs total). After that, it's regen will be gone and it'll only pop phuabo. I may have the order wrong, but you get the idea.. also, holding them is pretty dumb as it only takes 3 BLMs to kill them all. Wasting 2 people holding means you'd need to be able to kill the third with only one person to break even on player usage.

So, as I understand it, my BLM pty has to kill all 27 mobs and THEN we have locked it in the Phuabo phase where we hold 2 Phuabos and kill the third? Or can we pull the first 3 Phuabo, hold 2 of them and just watch JoL pop 1 Phuabo?

[yotevol]

@ OP

seriously just read this thread. There's a lot of good info in it including why you just need 5 BLMs and a refresher for adds and no puller/holders. Any of the recommendations in that thread will work and don't require elite players/gear to execute. Do it right and JoL will be dead before his regen is.

I have been reading this already, from a previous reply.
If I have too many questions, I'm sorry.
Somethings require experience, which we will get eventually, but not before I know everything first.

[Thorny]

So, as I understand it, my BLM pty has to kill all 27 mobs and THEN we have locked it in the Phuabo phase where we hold 2 Phuabos and kill the third? Or can we pull the first 3 Phuabo, hold 2 of them and just watch JoL pop 1 Phuabo?

You could do that, yes. It's less effort to continue having the BLMs -ga them though, as even if the 2 people holding phuabos required 0 support(they will need some support, just saying) you'd be wasting 2 spots when it only takes 3 BLM to -ga them down(and blms can do other shit in between pops, tanks holding can't). If you go with the holding 2 phuabo strat(which i can't stress enough is an awful use of resources), keep in mind you do need to kill the third as it tries to fill out sets. It'll see one phuabo is missing from that set and summon just the one.. if you hold all 3 it'll summon 3 more.

[yotevol]

If you go with the holding 2 phuabo strat(which i can't stress enough is an awful use of resources), keep in mind you do need to kill the third as it tries to fill out sets. It'll see one phuabo is missing from that set and summon just the one.. if you hold all 3 it'll summon 3 more.

Awesome! Thanks!
So, back to the other question...
Do I have to wait till it summons all 27 to lock it in shark mode?
Or can I lock it at the beginning?

[Thorny]

Awesome! Thanks!
So, back to the other question...
Do I have to wait till it summons all 27 to lock it in shark mode?
Or can I lock it at the beginning?

Shark mode lock is triggered by the 27 prior summons having popped, sorry if that wasn't clear. There is no way to lock it in shark mode without sitting out the 27 summons. You still need to have enough BLMs to -ga down the summons until it's in shark-only mode, unless you're planning on job changes or something you should just continue using them once it's shark-only mode. Hpemde will take 4 -ga 3 from top notch blm, 5 from mediocre ones. Xzomits take 3 from top notch blm, 4 from mediocre. Phuabo take 3 from good blms, 4 from awful awful blms. You can count on an extra -ga landing if everyone tries to cast after their first, but not really 2. If your BLMs are weak, you might want to have a 4th available for hpemde, but in general 3 BLMs will have all your add problems under control. You didn't really specify numbers, but with 15+ you shouldn't plan on it living long enough to go into phuabo only mode.

[Braeden]

I have been reading this already, from a previous reply.
If I have too many questions, I'm sorry.
Somethings require experience, which we will get eventually, but not before I know everything first.

Well that entire thread and this one all deal with killing the adds, while killing JoL. But one person mentions holding adds and you seem to have clung to that for some reason. There's no real reason to hold them. It makes things more complicated than they should be.

[yotevol]

Well that entire thread and this one all deal with killing the adds, while killing JoL. But one person mentions holding adds and you seem to have clung to that for some reason. There's no real reason to hold them. It makes things more complicated than they should be.

Thanks for the clarification on "locking" shark mode.

I cling to the holding method because I have a lot of PLDs in my LS.
I don't like having someone standing around doing nothing, so I am figuring a way to do this that will utilize as many people that my LS has.

It may not be as efficient as others would like, but I would have every single person feeling as though they contributed and did what they could to help.

It's tough to do and requires a lot of planning on my part.
But, I don't lead an LS based for the benefit to me, I like helping people.
To that end, I enjoy seeing people get equipment and not feeling useless at an event such as this.

Sure, it might be a bit more complicated.
But when we win, and my member gets a Novio/a earring...
Well, to me, there is no greater satisfaction.

So when other members look at that Novio/a earring,
they can feel like they were a big part in getting it.

Eh... I probably said too much.
(hides and waits for the flames to rise)

[Suiram]

Are you talking like 5+ people who are only PLD? JoL is the kind of fight that accommodates basically any job as long as you're not trying to low-man it and you don't have a surplus of people on any one specific job (except I guess blm where a surplus would be fine).

[Braeden]

No flames man it's your ls to do as you like. I do think it a tad naive to think that people are more interested in feeling useful than being more efficient. I'd bet that given a vote most woul rather do 3 JoLs in the same amount of time that it's gonna take you to do one.

I can understand your train of thought, but being more efficient allows your members to get their gear that much faster. I've done sea for years and it is a real time-sink. Even going multiple days a week it can take years for someone to get all they want, depending on the size of your group. But if your ls is ok with doing things the slow way, so more people feel involved then go for it dude.

[Chaz]

For the love of god please don't listen to this. Any strategy which features DDs getting "smacked for about 1200" or getting charmed is piss poor. Yes these things can happen if shit goes wrong but to actually implement this as your strategy is ridiculous. If your tanks rely on charm to help them out something is wrong.

First of all you don't need a ton of rangers. We've used as few as 3 and still pull out a 20 min win. WS will average about 700-800 where you'll see other DDs average half that. Adding the fact that they're dot on JoL will outparse any other DD all the while being out of range from primal drill/charm, makes them the clear cut DD of choice. Sure you can use SAM. You could probably Pummel String it to death too if you wanted. But why? Specially for a new shell RNG burn provides the safest/fastest method. I don't think 3-4 rng is an unreasonable amount for any shell to have.

The strategy doesn't feature getting hit to shed hate, it's just an inevitable part of it. If your DDs aren't pulling hate, no matter what job they are on, then you aren't killing it as fast as possible.

If your tanks are worth a damn then they will keep hate off of the DDs for a time, but eventually everyone is at hate cap and then its a balancing act. No tank on any server is going to keep hate off of a good SAM/WAR, hate caps are hate caps. Thats where getting hit for 1200 damage and immediately losing hate is a benefit, now your heaviest DD is at the bottom of the hate list. Its worth noting that you don't always get hit for 1200, thats pretty much a max boost attack. Also, JoL's Charm generally only lasts about 2-10 seconds, a quick Sleepga and a follow up Curaga and its basically like you pressed a button to reset your hate. If your mages are even half awake no harm can come from this.

I am interested in whether the 700-800 average WS from your RNGs is with or without a BRD. We have some pretty decked out RNGs and they don't tend to put up numbers like that on their own, whereas our SAMs will do some pretty consistent WS damage and at a much faster rate than the RNGs would.

We've done it every way from SMN only damage to KClub DRK zerg to our current SAM TP Burn, and walking away with 10-15 minute wins and zero deaths is pretty much the epitome of efficiency, whether you accept it or not.

[yotevol]

No flames man it's your ls to do as you like. I do think it a tad naive to think that people are more interested in feeling useful than being more efficient. I'd bet that given a vote most woul rather do 3 JoLs in the same amount of time that it's gonna take you to do one.

I can understand your train of thought, but being more efficient allows your members to get their gear that much faster. I've done sea for years and it is a real time-sink. Even going multiple days a week it can take years for someone to get all they want, depending on the size of your group. But if your ls is ok with doing things the slow way, so more people feel involved then go for it dude.

Thanks for understanding. =)
I remember when we first did Kirin.
So many people said we were going to fail, more had no clue what to expect.
I could give them all the answers/info they wanted, but the second Kirin popped and we were kiting, it was all out of the window.
We wiped bad. Did it again, and won after 3.5 hrs.
After that, people listened to me.
16 months later, we have it streamlined so that we can kite and kill Kirin in 42 minutes and straight tank Kirin pretty easily.

I feel the same way with JoL.
We're going to prep the best we can, but the LS members won't listen and will be caught off-guard, and will probably cause us to wipe on the first try.
But, we will win the second time.
After that, I wouldn't doubt it that we will refocus and streamline our efforts.

So, how does an LS ranger burn JoL in 10-20 minutes?
Shouldn't they have to wait till all 27 mobs pop?

[Chaz]

At the 27 add pop mark, JoL's regen is considered to be dead.

If your DDs are good they can begin to overcome its high initial regen almost immediately. Once you perfect it, you should be able to kill it before its regen is dead on a consistent basis.

[yotevol]

At the 27 add pop mark, JoL's regen is considered to be dead.

If your DDs are good they can begin to overcome its high initial regen almost immediately. Once you perfect it, you should be able to kill it before its regen is dead on a consistent basis.

So, when people say, "I killed JoL in 10-20 min"- it's because it took them an hour to kill the 27 adds, THEN it took them 10-20 min?

[Chaz]

No it means they killed it within 10-20 minutes from the moment you popped it.

[hezzel]

So, when people say, "I killed JoL in 10-20 min"- it's because it took them an hour to kill the 27 adds, THEN it took them 10-20 min?

Have good enough DDs you can out DD his regen even before its weakened. I've done it on several occasions. So when they say 10-20mins, they mean it from the time they popped it.

[yotevol]

That's pretty hawt.
We must learn to do that over time... but not right now.
=D

Gotta keep it safe and easy!

[Shinryuu]

And meanwhile the more talented people in your LS wonder why the hell you're killing stuff so slow and why the hell they're still in the shell.

Not a flame. A warning. Try to progress over time. A first 'safe and easy' JoL is fine. A 23rd kited Kirin is not.

[Starr]

Wasn't someone saying they can kill it in 6mins the other day?

[yotevol]

Well, thank you all very much for all of your input.
I greatly appreciate it and if anyone wishes, I will let you know how our first JoL run turns out.
But, knowing most of you, you probably won't care- lol.

Last question before I depart:
Does anyone know if a SCHs "Gravivty-aga" or "Bind-aga" will work on the 3 phuabos, 3 hpemdes, and 3 xzomits?

Curious if I can pull all 3 of them with a SCH and have the BLMs nuke-aga them without a huge danger to their health due to TP moves.