Follow-Up Answers from the interview with FFXIV Producer Hiromichi Tanaka

[Battlecat]

The only part that made me sad was how there were still going to be mobs that drop good items that are Rare/Ex

Rare/ex means the situation you specifically described can't possibly happen...

[Kaylia]

Rare/ex means the situation you specifically described can't possibly happen...

People camp NM to sell the r/e in FFXI (they arent killing faf for the dragon talon).

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

I'm fairly confident they're going to go with more instanced scenarios taking cues from the success of that in WoW. WoW has NM's but their relevance wasn't nearly as bad as having 30+ people constantly camping Emperor and Lizzy, and upwards of 100 for Argus.

I think it's safe to say that about 90% of the people on just this board have at one point quit FFXI, or tried out another MMO, or actively play another MMO. In this climate of the choice of MMO's you can play ( which wasn't the case when FFXI came out ), I would hope SE understands you have to make a good first impression or everyone is going to go back to WoW and SE will have their shit together as a result of that.

It makes sense they just said 'fuck it we're not changing shit' and played their cards close to the chest in the several FFXI interviews regarding making changes to the broken FFXI system, it's because they likely already intended to fix it in XIV and didn't want these concepts out in the open for other MMO's to poach.

Seems to me like they made a very big investment in not fixing XI and pouring all the feedback into XIV. Everyone I know that's ever even touched XI is rabidly sucking each others dick over XIV, we're resilient to SE's shit so for us it will take a lot to turn away, but this WoW generation they're going after they need to easymode the shit out of grinding and getting gear or it will flop.

[Destinye]

but this WoW generation they're going after they need to easymode the shit out of grinding and getting gear or it will flop.

Which is kinda sad how a game that holds the player's hand has become a standard in "how an MMORPG should be made".

[xopher]

nubby stuff

what is up with you necroing threads today

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Which is kinda sad how a game that holds the player's hand has become a standard in "how an MMORPG should be made".

No I think there's just an easy way to balance how you get gear which is easier for some than others.

If you're a high school student of college student and can camp FF/NH, KB, and Aspi and dedicate large amounts of time to doing that, it's easy for you.

If you work and have kids and log in 10-15 hours a week, but you're really good at strategy and critical thinking, then instances are easy for you.

Easy is all relative man, FFXI was easy for people with a lot of free time, period.

I watched some of the 'best' LS that would always have 20+ on for 3 kings wipe over and over to Jormungand on my server, while and LS that basically ran Dynamis as much as possible took Jorm down on their 2nd try.

Time does not =/> skill, but people think less time spent acquiring = easymode.

I probably should have explained my definition of easymode above but, it was already getting to be tl;dr.

[Rokku]

No I think there's just an easy way to balance how you get gear which is easier for some than others.

If you're a high school student of college student and can camp FF/NH, KB, and Aspi and dedicate large amounts of time to doing that, it's easy for you.

If you work and have kids and log in 10-15 hours a week, but you're really good at strategy and critical thinking, then instances are easy for you.

Easy is all relative man, FFXI was easy for people with a lot of free time, period.

I watched some of the 'best' LS that would always have 20+ on for 3 kings wipe over and over to Jormungand on my server, while and LS that basically ran Dynamis as much as possible took Jorm down on their 2nd try.

Time does not =/> skill, but people think less time spent acquiring = easymode.

I probably should have explained my definition of easymode above but, it was already getting to be tl;dr.

Well put. This is the kind of stuff that SE really needs to take to heart in making XIV.

And Destinye, do you really have that much of a hard-on for WoW that every time it's mentioned in this forum you immediately jump to shit talking it?

[Kaylia]

I would hope SE understands you have to make a good first impression or everyone is going to go back to WoW and SE will have their shit together as a result of that.

Normal people would, but there is some sort of pride that is totally uncalled for on SquareEnix side, and I fear they won't try to make thing more enjoyable for everyone.

[Celeras]

No I think there's just an easy way to balance how you get gear which is easier for some than others.

If you're a high school student of college student and can camp FF/NH, KB, and Aspi and dedicate large amounts of time to doing that, it's easy for you.

If you work and have kids and log in 10-15 hours a week, but you're really good at strategy and critical thinking, then instances are easy for you.

Now here's the problem with that. You're right, mmo difficulty is subjective, but I'm going to use it as a blanket statement to get this point across.

In your examples, what's difficult for the prior is also difficult for the latter. If you go that route you will have an all around difficult game. Which I would think is what most people here, gamers, would like to see.

However, something difficult for the latter is going be considerably easier for the prior. When you go that route, you're pretty much shunning half of your potential player base and banking on a heavy casual influence.

The result of those two formulas are very different, but each can be successful in their own right. But look at the models, it's essentially the difference between the FFXI playerbase and the WoW playerbase. For anybody that has played both games, I think the choice is obvious as to which you should prefer.. but maybe that's just me.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Now here's the problem with that. You're right, mmo difficulty is subjective, but I'm going to use it as a blanket statement to get this point across.

In your examples, what's difficult for the prior is also difficult for the latter. If you go that route you will have an all around difficult game. Which I would think is what most people here, gamers, would like to see.

However, something difficult for the latter is going be considerably easier for the prior. When you go that route, you're pretty much shunning half of your potential player base and banking on a heavy casual influence.

The result of those two formulas are very different, but each can be successful in their own right. But look at the models, it's essentially the difference between the FFXI playerbase and the WoW playerbase. For anybody that has played both games, I think the choice is obvious as to which you should prefer.. but maybe that's just me.

The player base does not equal the skill level of a game. I would say over 75% of the player base of FFXI never got to fight 3 Kings, Vrtra, Tiamat et al due to the unnatural time commitment it takes to camp them.

Now Sky was a novel idea but then you had too many LS and gs farming the pop items.

In WoW the hardcore beat the hard instances fast and furious, they have a combination of time, knowledge, and skill. Then it gets dumbed down so the "casual" players can experience it.

WoW has so many different directions you can go to apply your strengths to and this is why they not only keep so many people on, but they have new people joining every day.

Games 5 years old? Make it easier to hit 60. New expansion coming out in a month? Make it easier to farm / access hard content and better gear.

Just because it's easier for one group to do something more often does not shun, and I'm sorry hardcore does not make up half the player base of any game, half of the player base.

Now if you take, say, the difficulty level of Vrtra. You can try it once a week on your time constraints then everyone is hitting the same wall. And skill and determination and learning curve prevails, not "durrr I can log on 10 more times than you and have better gear so I da best durrr."

Not mocking you with that quote btw, but we all know the FFXI HNMLS mentality from LS that were camping NH or Tia or w/e at 4am on a Tuesday with 20-40 people from their LS online for that camp.

Easymode for me is a level playing field when certain controls are taken into consideration.

[dejet]

To say SE did not change their way is bull shit. ZNM system was a big show of change, HNMs that are strong, can be poped, fun to fight and drop some bad ass fucking gear.

SE likes the NM idea, and I do think its a decent idea, however along side it must be other systems like they added to late in the games life. All the kings gear for the most part can be gained off odin and the lesser chambers. If this stuff was in the game from the get-go I think FFXI would of had a much bigger following then it does now.

If when E body was "pimping e peen ho!" back in 2004 and you could farm one every 2 weeks easy off odin you would of had a much better turn around.

I think SE got it right to late but they did indeed get it right in the end.


edit: also wow hit its peak, based off numbers wow is now losing people just an fyi. Not to say they are even close to ending anytime soon, they still have millions of players, just that statement of new people every day is sorta not as it use to be. WoW has hit its peek aion and other games are starting to take their player base a little.

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2217#adfaa

do not take this the wrong way, this in no way means wow is going to die lol thing must have like 20 years left even at that rate if they so wish to keep it going. just i had to nit pick a little ~_~

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

No you're right, SE eventually did fix their ways on a few things but waaaaayyyyyy late down the road. And Zilart gear, 3 expansions later, is still some of the best gear in the game.

Then look at Septimus' post about "random stat generator" and it's always been true. Throw -MND on a WAR piece, or CHR on PLD AF2, I mean really?

SE improved but by no means perfected the game, and they waited far too long to do it. Really? The end of expansion 3 to make it easier to gain gear from expansion 1? That's not improvement, thats pandering.

[Kaylia]

Shady things are still going on in aery after 7 years, AV is still unkillable after 5 years, practical merit party have been limited to tiny area for the last 2-3 years, big items generally come at the cost of seeing people around you get shit for the next 6 months..

No, square enix isnt fixing their game, they are putting bandaid to stop a fucking hemorrhage.


I'm not saying there is nothing good in the game, but they are ignoring crucial aspect.

[Celeras]

The player base does not equal the skill level of a game.

WoW has so many different directions you can go to apply your strengths to and this is why they not only keep so many people on, but they have new people joining every day.

I disagree entirely. The player base of the game is 100% correlated by it's skill level. Casuals wont play a game where they can't achieve anything, and gamers wont play a game where everything is handed to them.

Take your WoW example for instance. It was better in Vanilla, but had less subscribers. They've added tons of customers since then, nobody is going to deny their success. But the game difficulty/quality has gone way down. Myself personally, I quit mid BC, came back to try the latest expansion then quit again almost immediately after Ulduar. Cleared in a few weeks, got 2350 and all PvP equipment, and I was done. The game doesn't cater to me anymore like it did in vanilla with the difficulty of original Naxx. It's too easy and as such theres not enough for people like me to do once theyve conquered everything. I would imagine that the majority of people who would use these forums (ex-FFXI gamers) fall into that category, and this should be the playerbase SE is hoping to tag.

WoW is for a completely different audience. An audience that would never play FFXI, and in my opinion an audience that SE should never try to cater to.

[Rokku]

SE really never made an effort to "fix" FFXI, it's always been more of a band-aid solution here and there. Not that XI doesn't have it's merits (and it did), but it's obvious that at some point it became nothing more than an experimental grounds for ideas that SE wanted to see if they would work in XIV.

If XIV comes out of the gates with things like ZNMs, Einherjar, Assaults, instanced content, MMM and a host of the other things they've been playing with recently as endgame content it'll be in a good starting position.

Also, I seriously doubt WoW has hit it's peak based on some website hit tracking device like Alexa. I'll agree that WoW is in a lull period though, a lot of people taking breaks because the more casual content is drying up with the buildup to Icecrown citadel, but the moment Cataclysm releases their subscription numbers will shoot back up. It's a vicious cycle.

The Finesse's assessment of the situation is pretty spot on, SE just needs to realize that there is a middle ground where a game can cater to casuals and hardcore alike and still be challenging and rewarding for both groups. While most people do look forward to endgame in MMOs, the content itself doesn't need to require the player to be hardcore.

Time =! Skill, challenge =! hardcore, and so on. There's a middle ground, and if SE has learned anything over the years with XI, I think it's that they're starting to understand where that middle ground is.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

I disagree entirely. The player base of the game is 100% correlated by it's skill level. Casuals wont play a game where they can't achieve anything, and gamers wont play a game where everything is handed to them.

Take your WoW example for instance. It was better in Vanilla, but had less subscribers. They've added tons of customers since then, nobody is going to deny their success. But the game difficulty/quality has gone way down. Myself personally, I quit mid BC, came back to try the latest expansion then quit again almost immediately after Ulduar. Cleared in a few weeks, got 2350 and all PvP equipment, and I was done. The game doesn't cater to me anymore like it did in vanilla with the difficulty of original Naxx. It's too easy and as such theres not enough for people like me to do once theyve conquered everything. I would imagine that the majority of people who would use these forums (ex-FFXI gamers) fall into that category, and this should be the playerbase SE is hoping to tag.

WoW is for a completely different audience. An audience that would never play FFXI, and in my opinion an audience that SE should never try to cater to.

SE doesn't want a small core audience that's pro SE and FFIV, they want to make money. As a pro level gamer you should want them to make more money, so they hire more devs, and create more content.

There just needs to be a great balance of pro / casual overall instead of leaning one way or the other.

You're right though, WoW is for a completely different audience than FFXI is and what FFXIV should be for. It would just be nice to see a better time / skill balance applied this time around.

[Rokku]

I I would imagine that the majority of people who would use these forums (ex-FFXI gamers) fall into that category, and this should be the playerbase SE is hoping to tag.

WoW is for a completely different audience. An audience that would never play FFXI, and in my opinion an audience that SE should never try to cater to.

I disagree entirely. If SE has any hope of being successful they need to understand that not every person that wants to be challenged by an MMO is a shut-in that has 8-12 hours a day to devote to sitting around waiting to claim a king spawn.

The point people are trying to make is that a game doesn't need to be murderously hard to be challenging or fun, nor does it need to eat up huge blocks of time to play. There is a middle ground, and if SE wants to be successful they need to cater to it. Although I'll agree that the groups that would play FFXIV are probably, in the majority, not people that would be playing WoW.

[Kaylia]

I love when "difficulty" mean a long grinding process that bore the shit out of 95% of the fanbase, and make the last 5% feel good about their lack of life.

[Correction]

The game doesn't cater to me anymore like it did in vanilla with the difficulty of original Naxx. It's too easy and as such theres not enough for people like me to do once theyve conquered everything.

Mind you the only thing to do once you've cleared all FFXI content is...merit.

[Kaylia]

Mind you the only thing to do once you've cleared all FFXI content is...merit.

You will be done with merit long time before you get your morrigan pants.