Legal Question

[barber2006]

So, I've asked 3 of my friends who are lawyers and none of them knew so I figured I'd take a shot in the dark and ask if anyone here had experience with this type of scenario:


In 2004 my sister got married. Between 2004 and 06 her husband got caught up in some heavy drugs which eventually led to a divorce. However, after the divorce he cleaned up just long enough to convince her he had changed and she gave him another shot (stupidly).

During the short time they were together before he got back on drugs they bought a car together. Both of their names are listed as owners on the documents etc. This happened AFTER the divorce. He doesn't have a job and does not come to court for any of the custody/child support hearings etc. Basically, he's just living with his brother, staying high all the time and refuses to do anything he is legally bound to do.

That's not the issue though. My sister can support the kids np. The issue is this car. It's a $50,000 car which brings a huge note along with it. My sister has been paying the note but there are several scenarios which make this non-ideal.

1) The creditors her ex husband has could theoretically come after the car since his name is on it. They could do this after she alone spends years paying it off.

2) If she sells it (again after paying on it exclusively for years) he could claim half.

3) If she allows it to be repo'd to get out from under it, its a knock on her credit and from what I've been told what she would save in not paying the note she would lose in fees, court costs, etc.


This is an issue because she is unable to sell the car since BOTH signatures are required. However, even if her ex is presented with some sort of legal document requiring him to transfer ownership he won't do it just out of spite/apathy/etc. So the dilemna is that she can't sell it with his name still on the dotted line and he won't remove his name. What options are there before she shovels 50k into this car and it gets taken after the last payment?

[Jodwahh]

Shoot the junkie, problem solved.

No idea really though, it's certainly a veritable motherfucker of a situation. Best of luck to your sister.

Edit: Thinking about it, couldn't she take him to civil court for custody of the car and present the evidence that she alone is paying for the car then she would be named as the sole legal owner of the car?

[Tyche]

Maybe if she could show that she was the sole payee of the loan she could opt for option 2. I bought my house before my wife and I were married. Both of our names were on it, if I sold it, she was indeed entitled to half of the profit if sold. It does go both ways though, as if the house turned a loss, she would also be responsible for the debt with me. That's the way it was explained to us for the house at least, I'd expect a similar scenario with a car.

[Olo401]

Something similar to this happened when my mother sold our old house - she had been paying the mortgage on her own for several years so she was able to provide proof of the payments. The split ended up being something like 70-30 in her favor.

[Ksandra]

Shoot the junkie, problem solved.

No idea really though, it's certainly a veritable motherfucker of a situation. Best of luck to your sister.

Edit: Thinking about it, couldn't she take him to civil court for custody of the car and present the evidence that she alone is paying for the car then she would be named as the sole legal owner of the car?

this^, first tell her to ask him to have his name removed, and let him know that if he doesn't, she will take it to court to get it settled. (courts always want to see that you at least attempted to settle the matter outside, and just threatening with court action may make him do it anyways).

If he refuses, make sure she gets her bank statements/payment confirmations she can on the car to show that she's been the sole payer of the car, and take the matter to court.

As long as she has the proof, there is no reason why she shouldn't be able to get custody of the car.

[MarkM.]

If she is still paying for the car, creditors can't come after it. What it boils down to is her nor said dead beat are the owners, whatever bank or loan company holds the loan is the owner. The only way a company could come after the vehicle in question would be for the company that holds the note to come get it if your sister was missing payments. Other than that, Ksandra is right.

Another thing she could do was when the vehicle is paid off is to make sure to get the deed in her name only, not sure what all that takes, but I'm sure you get the idea.

[Abandon]

Kill him, move on.

[jmc]

So they were not married when the car was purchased?

If so, then civil court....... you have 2 options for it

1) Show that he is unfit to pay the lien on the car, and request the courts action in assisting in removing him from the loan.

2) Bring proof of payments, and total cost.... sue him for 50% of the payments back (If you spent $14,000 on the car, sue him for $7,000 or his share) warn him that he either starts paying you half the payments or your gonna keep taking him to court to get paid for his half. He will probably decide its easy to transfer full custody over to her.

[Teffy]

1) sounds ok, 2) sounds like crap as he already said the guy just ignores anything she does. He's doing drugs, what's he care about getting sued.

Hell, if he's that big of a drugee just forge his name to take him off the car or to sell it, how the hell is he gonna know. Sure that's illegal, but would also work depending on how out of it he is.

[jmc]

1) sounds ok, 2) sounds like crap as he already said the guy just ignores anything she does. He's doing drugs, what's he care about getting sued.

Hell, if he's that big of a drugee just forge his name to take him off the car or to sell it, how the hell is he gonna know. Sure that's illegal, but would also work depending on how out of it he is.

Court order to pay >> Pay or goto jail. (In majority of states, defendant doesn't appear in court and plaintiff wins by default)

Can't do drugs like he is currently doing, while in prison.... smart people actually get the risk of jail time, and pay.

or give in for anything that doesn't take away cash from their drug addiction, or risk prison time.

[wipers]

My advice don't help your sister. Let her deal with her problems on her own.

[Aerides]

Given she made a decision to co-sign/co-own with her ex-drug-flake for a HUGE freaking car note that most of us would not even want even if we could afford, you realize your sister is a bit of a flake herself, and this is not the last time she will have financial issues.....(might just be better if she defaults and can't get into more trouble).

That said, she could also call up the bank that owes the note, explain the situation and see what they can come up with? Is there a thing like voluntary repo that doesn't hurt your credit terribly? idk. Car loan for a $50k car (assuming they didn't make a hefty downpayment) gotta be looking at $800+ per month? In 5 years when it's all paid off she'll have at best a 20k car to drive...

If the rest of her credit is stellar, she might be able to absorb a knock and ride at average/meh for a few years if she doesn't need to make other large debts?

[Serif]

Repos are horrible for your credit, hands down no questions asked.

If she can get the car in her name it would be the best bet, I would also add this into the court case or whatever you call it. That if she does get the car in her name and she does sell it her husband be halfway liable for the remaining debt on the car after it is sold. Not sure if that is possible or if it will even work. Does he work? They could maybe garnish his wages to actually pay for it. Not too positive about all that though.

The best thing for her would probably to sell the car, seeing how it is probably a 600+ a month payment.

This will lead into having to talk to the car dealership or whomever she originally got the financing for that car. She will need to strike a deal with them allowing her to sell the car and give title to some one else but her still owing whatever amount she owes after the car, in example she can only get 30k for the car she will either need to sign a note for 20k and pay that loaner or I think you should be able to get a loan from a local bank and pay it that way.

A 20k payment is a whole lot better than a 50k payment, even though they both suck ass.

But if she wants to keep the car, your sister is crazy and yeah...

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

If 3 of your friends are lawyers they should be able to look this up on LexisNexis or Westlaw no problem, unless you have to pay for it every time you use it or something. I'm still in law school so I don't know how paying for it works yet, it's simply free for me. It should be easy for them to look it up though. If I have time I'll look it up for you though, what state are you in?

And the person who said a company can't come after b/c the bank owns it is wrong. Just read a case today where someone was able to essentially do that in a procedurally similar scenario. (If they can't come after it, the bank owning it is not the reason.)

[barber2006]

If 3 of your friends are lawyers they should be able to look this up on LexisNexis or Westlaw no problem, unless you have to pay for it every time you use it or something. I'm still in law school so I don't know how paying for it works yet, it's simply free for me. It should be easy for them to look it up though. If I have time I'll look it up for you though, what state are you in?

And the person who said a company can't come after b/c the bank owns it is wrong. Just read a case today where someone was able to essentially do that in a procedurally similar scenario. (If they can't come after it, the bank owning it is not the reason.)

Louisiana. Yeah, I know it's shocking that something like this happens here.

[Haiko]

I wonder what car they bought if it was worth $50,000?

[Blackwidow]

Get the leech on society high with his favorite poison of choice, then have him sign the ownership away while in said induced euphoria...

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I didn't spend a lot of time on it, but here's one to seek relief.

Spoiler: show

The ownership of a movable is voluntarily transferred by a contract between the owner and the transferee that purports to transfer the ownership of the movable. Unless otherwise provided, the transfer of ownership takes place as between the parties by the effect of the agreement and against third persons when the possession of the movable is delivered to the transferee.

That's for "movable property," I'm just assuming a car fits that definition. Now that I copy pasted I noticed he won't do it.

Couldn't really find anything else to help you, like I said I'm not that efficient yet, other than don't let him see this:

Spoiler: show

declares that ownership confers direct, immediate, and exclusive authority over a thing and that the owner “may use, enjoy, and dispose of it within the limits and under the conditions established by law.” Articles 800, 801, and 802 (supra) work modifications on the terms of Civil Code Article 477 (Rev.1979) in the light of the interests of all the co-owners. Thus a co-owner has neither a right to exclusive use nor a right to dispose of the thing without the consent of his co-owners. However, as against third persons, a co-owner has the right to use and enjoy the thing as if he were its sole owner. For example, a co-owner may alone take all the necessary steps for the preservation of the property, including the institution of suits against trespassers or usurpers.

My only other guess is something along the lines of "adverse possession" of the co-owners interest, but that's probably so far-fetched I don't think it's worth your time to read.

[guartz]

I don't understand why she just won't file for divorce and make the claim on the car. If she's been paying the bill, there should be records of that, which would make it easy enough in court.

[Ksandra]

I don't understand why she just won't file for divorce and make the claim on the car. If she's been paying the bill, there should be records of that, which would make it easy enough in court.

because they're already divorce, and got the car after the divorce...read op again. XD