Random Question Thread V: But does it 6-hit

[D44kpunk]

From what I understand you'll lose 10k TE if you were at cap upon usage. Assuming your tanks can stay at/near the hate cap you'll have to be doing 5k CE damage/3 mins to get hate.

Cerberus for example LV 85 NM. You'll need to do more than 3625 damage every 3 mins in order to go from 5k CE to 10k CE, which assuming you have good tanks is when you'll pull hate. Now while that's not difficult to do; until you break that damage cap you're not gonna be taking hate, which is a lot less strenuous on your healers than attempting to mitigate your damage through a dodgy Seigan+TE.

WAR/SAM has no way to lose CE other than taking damage, where as WAR/DRG has high jump and taking damage.

So ideally if you're fighting something that has more than a BRD to heal melee SAM sub is better? kk

[Byrthnoth]

The question is how fast you hit the CE cap relative to how quickly High Jump comes up (3 minutes). If you can generate 5000 CE/VE in significantly less than 3 minutes then you'll have issues /DRG, and they'll be bigger issues than the ones you'd have /SAM because there will be no Third Eye to save you.
That said, you'd have to do 3600 damage (5000CE/~1.4 enmity mod=~3600) in under 3 minutes for this to be an issue.

PS. Has the Enmity Down from High Jump been tested on a job /DRG? Also, do you still get the effect if it misses?

[Aero]

As WAR/SAM you're not going to lose hate just blinking their attacks away. You will eventually be hit for x-damage, and once you regain that hate back its going to keep happening. Once you hit the hate cap you'll be co-tanking and not able to use hasso; taking away 1/2 advantages /SAM has over /DRG.

[nivlakian]

The question is how fast you hit the CE cap relative to how quickly High Jump comes up (3 minutes). If you can generate 5000 CE/VE in significantly less than 3 minutes then you'll have issues /DRG, and they'll be bigger issues than the ones you'd have /SAM because there will be no Third Eye to save you.
That said, you'd have to do 3600 damage (5000CE/~1.4 enmity mod=~3600) in under 3 minutes for this to be an issue.

PS. Has the Enmity Down from High Jump been tested on a job /DRG? Also, do you still get the effect if it misses?

Tests I've done on /DRG suggest it's -30% of your CE + 1CE for use whether you hit or miss.

[Byrthnoth]

Assuming your tanks were keeping capped hate, as long as you can High Jump every 3600 damage you'll never take hate. That intuitively seems pretty valuable, but upon reflection I can't think of a situation where I'd actually want it over more damage and sharing hate with the tanks.
I mean, it almost sounds like you could zerg something with a bunch of smart /DRG DDs, but when it comes right down to it a completely hateless 1200 damage per minute isn't really zerg material. Most BLMs would be ashamed of that, and BLMs have horrid DoT compared to decent melees. Not to mention meleeing feeds the HNM a whole lot more TP than BLM nukes.

However, if you do 1700 damage per minute it still takes about 5 minutes to hit the 10000 CE cap. 3000 damage per minute and you hit the cap before 3 minutes unless you High-Jump early. Regardless, see my post two down This might not be a bad idea for something like JoL, where you don't want to pull hate or you risk Charmga/fatass falling on you/etc.

Edit:
With only -30% as /DRG it becomes much less sustainable. Now you'd have to do ~720 damage per minute to be asymptotic to 10000. Horrendous.

Keep in mind that the numbers I gave are dependent upon exactly when you use high Jump. Because it halves your Enmity and lasts 3 minutes, it's possible to time it so you'd be able to go a minute or two further depending upon your exact DoT.

[Max™]

JoL is something that it is MUCH more interesting on.

War/Drg shines on kited fights as well because Jumps are instant and ranged strikes/TP gain, and you won't pull hate off the kiter as much.

Still, War/Sam let's you cotank better, and trying to lose hate with damage when standing still (which means you should ALWAYS have Retaliation up) is harder than it sounds, since you just pump out more hate from retaliates/faster WSes.

[Byrthnoth]

Hmm... actually... the asymptote is ~1100 damage per minute. It's VE limited rather than CE limited, unlike what I thought.

3300 damage * ~4 = 13200VE Generated
3 * 60 * 60 = 10800 VE decayed in 3 minutes
10000*30% = 3000 VE High Jumped away every 3 minutes

So at 1100 damage every minute, you'd barely gain VE over time. Of course, /SAM doesn't gain hate with 900 damage per minute. So you're changing your sub and sacrificing your damage mitigation to do another 200 hateless damage per minute.

Edit:
Tomfoolery!

[Pendulum]

Is it actually possible (or worth it) to swap to DRG head in time after a ws for it to have any effect for wyvern's breath?

If you mean wyrm armet, then yes, I have /wait 2 after WS then equip it.

If you mean drachen armet, then no, you need to wear that when readying the WS (and so will have it on whilst using the WS) and there are better things to wear than 5 mnd for ws. Also, probably 8 times out of 10 my wyvern uses frost breath on colibri with my drachen armet staying in mh.

[matt4684]

Guess if we're all talking about WAR may as well ask this. I'm about to take my WAR from 37 to 75 soon as I finish leveling SCH as a sub (yeah I procrastinated on this one). Is there a recommended subjob for leveling? I know /SAM will come in handy at 50 with Hasso, but what about before then? I have /THF /SAM /NIN /MNK and several other subs that wouldn't be worth even considering using. Should I just take /DRG to 37 and ISNM until I get a K. Ore and buy a wyvern earring or can I get away with using THF, NIN, or SAM as a sub despite their relative uselessness?

[Aero]

/SAM is overrated until you get seigan. Go /NIN and use Gaxe.

[Karbuncle]

Guess if we're all talking about WAR may as well ask this. I'm about to take my WAR from 37 to 75 soon as I finish leveling SCH as a sub (yeah I procrastinated on this one). Is there a recommended subjob for leveling? I know /SAM will come in handy at 50 with Hasso, but what about before then? I have /THF /SAM /NIN /MNK and several other subs that wouldn't be worth even considering using. Should I just take /DRG to 37 and ISNM until I get a K. Ore and buy a wyvern earring or can I get away with using THF, NIN, or SAM as a sub despite their relative uselessness?

Unless you know you're tank is terrible, /THF with Sturmwind is pretty sexy at early levels, up until about 50 i'd say. after 50 its a matter of preference, if you're going to be getting hate alot due to shitty tank or just sub par party, best idea is to sub NIN (or go solo FoV while flipping the bird).

Outside of that, Hasso is wonderful the second you get it its a nice JA and you should take advantage of /SAM whenever you can, but don't let it get you killed.

Though, at 55 When you get Rampage, may want to consider Dual wielding until 60 when RR Comes into play =)

[Byrthnoth]

You can get away with WAR/MNK or /NIN to 37 probably. If you're DDing, /RNG actually works well for Accuracy Bonus 20+. After you pass 40ish you'll want to stay /NIN with GA until 70, then go /SAM to 75.
It's possible to argue that people should use Axe/Axe and Rampage at 55-60, or Axe/Axe 50->60 (Dual Wield 2+Viking Axes), but you shouldn't feel bad if you don't. Skill up your Axes after you get to 75 in case you level BST some day.

[Callisto]

I stuck with /NIN until 72, at lower levels it's because I was tanking, at 70-72 it was because I was on Imps the bulk of the time which made Seigan + Third Eye even less reliable than normal, once I hit 72 I just roped friends into sneaking me into merit parties.

[CadgerEX]

Ill make it more specific.
DRG/Whatever, Drachen Armet not Wyrm.
Heca body/hands/feet.
TP gear is crap (ACC based not Haste, flame away)

[Byrthnoth]

Above Pendulum said:

If you mean drachen armet, then no, you need to wear that when readying the WS (and so will have it on whilst using the WS) and there are better things to wear than 5 mnd for ws. Also, probably 8 times out of 10 my wyvern uses frost breath on colibri with my drachen armet staying in mh.

I'd say if your TP gear is what it is, you're talking about Penta Thrust, and your alternative for WS is Optical Hat even though you don't need Acc, then you might as well wear Drachen.

[Bakthi]

WAR/NIN until 70; your tank will almost certainly not be good enough. /SAM will make you hit faster, WS more, and not be able to do anything about the consequences.

I did use Rampage from 55-60, but getting my great axe back up to cap was urrrrgh.

[LinktheDeme]

WAR/NIN until 70; your tank will almost certainly not be good enough. /SAM will make you hit faster, WS more, and not be able to do anything about the consequences.

I did use Rampage from 55-60, but getting my great axe back up to cap was urrrrgh.

Its easier now since that patch I believe

[kyosak]

Is there a way to use PlasticSurgeon and still equip RSE gear?

Or any good alternatives? ><

[Vejitta]

Is there any hard cap on Double Attack rate? 50%? 25%?

[matt4684]

So long story short, unless I';m specifically asked to sub something it boils down to my preference and how often I feel like eating dirt?