Random Question Thread V: But does it 6-hit

[mdkuser]

since each additional hit is 1.0 fTP.

Are you sure about that part? does it apply to all multihit WS, mercy stroke for example? For my dancing edge and asuran fist spreadsheeets I use the same ftp on all hits.

[Shinryuu]

Yes, goes for DAs and offhand hits too. Why wouldn't you use gorget on Mercy Stroke?

[Cream Soda]

Pretty much why when you DA a gekko, you won't get anywhere near double the damage, because the 2nd hit only has 1.0 ftp

[Clave]

Pretty much why when you DA a gekko, you won't get anywhere near double the damage, because the 2nd hit only has 1.0 ftp

This is correct. This also means that even if a multi-hit WS has ftp lower than 1.0 (Insurgency anyone?) that any further hits are 1.0.

[Onorgul]

I wonder if you guys are oversimplifying by only pointing out the collective fTP. Asuran Fists would have an 8.0 fTP but it certainly doesn't come close to Sidewinder's damage with 5.0 fTP. This is where stat mods and pDIF and whatnot become important.

[Shinryuu]

Huh? It's not oversimplifying, really. Of course, Slug can have up to 150 base DMG pre-WSC and fSTR. Asuran won't quite make the 150 even with all that. fTP is just one of the multipliers ((DMG)*(fTP)*(pDIF))

[Siniroth]

It's only oversimplifying it for the people who see 'ftp' and think 'if this is higher, automatically = better'

(Example being that Asuran Fists v Sidewinder above)

[mdkuser]

Why wouldn't you use gorget on Mercy Stroke?

there is a guy in whats better thread ( latest posts) who claims justice torque is better than gorgets for pure damage. it makes sense.

[Shinryuu]

It does? I don't think an increase of 3.33% (2.5% /NIN) in WS damage can be matched, but could be wrong. Justice would be 1.25 fSTR and 2 WSC; say you're lucky and get 4 DMG, how much STR would a Mandau THF WS in?

[Stanislaus]

I'm finally getting around to removing the spell animations that cause spell lock, so I downloaded a blank animation .DAT to swap in. Problem is, I can't figure out which files are to be replaced!

halp

edit: hume model, face 4b if it matters

[Hitoseijuro]

It does? I don't think an increase of 3.33% (2.5% /NIN) in WS damage can be matched, but could be wrong. Justice would be 1.25 fSTR and 2 WSC; say you're lucky and get 4 DMG, how much STR would a Mandau THF WS in?

The last post from what mdkuser on that thread said something about MS getting 3.00ftp already from the ws, which idk why that would be an issue as you can still push it higher past 3.00ftp

:edit: However shama did some testing to show why one was better than the other, one of the posters pointed that out.

[mdkuser]

It does? I don't think an increase of 3.33% (2.5% /NIN) in WS damage can be matched, but could be wrong. Justice would be 1.25 fSTR and 2 WSC; say you're lucky and get 4 DMG, how much STR would a Mandau THF WS in?

I was surprised too when he said str +5 beats it, especially that even with mandau his fSTR will not increase most likely. full hecatomb is already caped fstr on most mobs. eyballing, he'd be at ~140 str depending on race, pre gorget.

[Wulfgang]

Mountain Worm (Heavy Gauntlets one)

I've killed it once before and am not really understanding its behavior today. I am roaming around the tunnels in F-8 to F-9 where I killed it before with WB's radar up. There is no dead body in any part of any tunnel, yet the worm is not up. The only way that could be is if it hasn't popped since the last maintenance, but it's been way over 21 hours since the last one.

Is there another set of tunnels or something? In memory I have worms 293, 295, 297, 298, 299, 300, 301, 303, 305, 316, 317; however, comparing it to the structured list I am missing worms 310, 312, 314, 319, 323, 324, 325. I presume the NM worm is one of the ones I am missing, but if its not up, there should be a body.

Kind of a rambling post, just trying to figure it out; almost no one ever camps this thing.

[BerenTebogo]

It can pop in either of the two tunnels.

[Wulfgang]

EDIT: Found it, thanks Sath.

[Cleverness]

Dual wield delay reduction on stuff like Koga Hakama(5% delay reduction) is relatively equivalent to how much Haste?

[Darlantan]

.

[Byrthnoth]

Depends how much DW and Haste you have.

To calculate as far as DoT goes:
(1-DW% without)/(1-[DW% without + 5% from Hakama]) = (1- Your Haste%)/(1 - [Your Haste% + x% Haste])
Solved for x:
x% Haste = 1 - Your Haste% - (1- Your Haste%)*(1-[DW% without + 5% from Hakama])/(1-DW% without)
Your Haste% includes buffs (Haste Samba, Marches, Haste, etc) and equipment except for the legs slot. DW% without includes job traits and stuff like Suppa and Ninja Chainmail.

When solo with Suppa and Ninja Chainmail, Koga Hakama actually offer a greater delay reduction than Haidates. However, that DoT increase is accompanied by a TP/hit reduction, while Haidates also offer a WS rate increase.

[Cleverness]

Alright that's pretty clear, just wanted to make sure if it was worth spending points on if they drop tomorrow in Sandy since I'm still in line for Haidate, thanks.

[Byrthnoth]

Haidates are going to be much better whenever you have any Haste buffs on you at all. Koga are going to be about the next best thing for the slot until then though. They also have a use if you're into suicide-ninja builds. Speaking of which, I take back what I said earlier about them necessarily reducing your TP gain. I forgot that low delays cause the TP/second to actually go up.

Food for thought--

Spoiler: show

Main: Tsukumo (DMG+5, STR+4, Crit+5)
Sub: Perdu Blade
Ammo: Fire Bomblet
Head: Shura Kabuto +1
Neck: Ancient Torque
Ear1: Suppanomimi
Ear2: Shinobi Earring
Body: Ninja Chainmail +1
Hands: Usukane Gote
Ring1: Shinobi Ring
Ring2: Rajas Ring
Back: Cuchulain's Mantle
Waist: Virtuoso Belt
Legs: Koga Hakama
Feet: Usukane Sune-ate

Total Delay: 380*(1-45%DW) = 209
209/2 = ~105
105 Delay = 4.3 TP/hit
4.3*1.12 = 4.8 TP/hit

4.8 TP every 105 Delay = 2.74 TP/sec pre-Haste and DA (25(6)% Haste + 35% from Magic, 10% DA)
2.74*(1+10% DA)*(1/.4) = 7.54 TP/sec

Main: Senju
Sub: Perdu
Ammo: Fire Bomblet
Head: Walahra Turban
Neck: Ancient Torque
Ear1: Suppanomimi
Ear2: Brutal Earring
Body: Usukane Haramaki
Hands: Dusk Gloves +1
Ring1: Toreador's Ring
Ring2: Rajas Ring
Back: Cuchulain's mantle
Waist: Velocious belt
Legs: Byakko's Haidate
Feet: Usukane Sune-ate

Total Delay: 417*(1-35% DW) = 271 Delay
271/2 = ~136
136 Delay = 4.6 TP/hit
4.6 TP/hit * 1.19 STP = 5.4 TP/hit

5.4/(136/60) = 2.38 TP/sec pre-Haste and DA (22% Haste +35% from Magic, 15% DA)
2.38*(1+15% DA)*(1/.44) = 6.22 TP/sec


So technically Dual Wield reduces your TP/hit, but actually it increases your TP gain as long as you're working below 180 Delay/hand.
Important to note that suicide ninjas are suicidal, and therefore impractical 99% of the time. It's fun for walls assault.

tl;dr - Do the math before you assume that something will affect your build in a particular way.

Edit: Forgot to factor in DA differences between the builds.