Rethink Afghanistan

[Korietsu]

Spying without warrants in the US is considered illegal, as opposed to other countries where such a concept does not exist and you can be spied on at any moment without ever being notified or ever being able to sue for it.

And if you think that the NSA/CIA need a warrant to spy on you in the interest of national security you're crazy. If I was detained at an airport under "national security risk" I could be detained without access to any of the liberties granted to me under the bill of rights. In fact, the US Marshals in coordination with the FBI and CIA grounded a flight and detained a reporter because a woman called in on him because he was taking 'Airborne' before the flight. The woman felt threatened of a chemical/biological attack. The man was roughhoused and was given no reason for his detainment and was question on the spot at gunpoint.

[BRP]

Are you even a American citizen?

Are you even an Afghanistan citizen?

hurrr

[Kuya]

And if you think that the NSA/CIA need a warrant to spy on you in the interest of national security you're crazy. If I was detained at an airport under "national security risk" I could be detained without access to any of the liberties granted to me under the bill of rights. In fact, the US Marshals in coordination with the FBI and CIA grounded a flight and detained a reporter because a woman called in on him because he was taking 'Airborne' before the flight. The woman felt threatened of a chemical/biological attack. The man was roughhoused and was given no reason for his detainment and was question on the spot at gunpoint.

If you're basing your argument on "you don't know if the CIA is spying on you"then i'm not interested in what you have to say. Suffice it to say that if you're comparing how the CIA behaves (which at times, and quite often, has broken established laws) to a place where practically no civil rights exist, then you have different issues that i don't care for.

[Athas]

I've only ever heard military advisors saying more forces were needed and I image these videos argue the contrary and before I sit down to watch them I'm just wondering who exactly are making such claims?

[Stee]

Are you even an Afghanistan citizen?

hurrr

Are you literate?

hurrr

[Faris]

i still dont understand why obama still wants to stay in afghanistan.

more than 8 years in the country, and there is still work to be done?; what were the troops doing all those 8 years? smoking opium?

These same terrorists groups prefer to work in places like Europe because in some of their countries they would be tortured and killed with no remorse, particularly because these countries tend to be ruled by dictators and tyrants.

I hear what you're saying bro.
if arab countries dont kill and torture the terrorists, the U.S will invade because it is a haven for terrorists groups. And if they torture and kill them - they are ruled by a dictator/tyrant and they need to be invaded to neutrilize their tyrant regime.

Afghanistan = haven for terrorists
Iraq = dictator/tyrant

we're fucked both ways :D

[Kuya]

Well, to be fair, it would seem that the US did not consider Saddam a tyrant when he was gassing Iranians.

[Rhinox]

Well, to be fair, it would seem that the US did not consider Saddam a tyrant when he was gassing Iranians.

[Dimmauk]

Is it worth considering that the Taliban was a pretty brutal government? I realize that Taliban is somewhat of an umbrella term, but the previous government treated women really really poorly and was a hardline theocracy.

And yeah, the fact that this is nearing the decade marker is kinda mindblowing.

It always makes me laugh with people bring up the way the Taliban treat women, when we have Mormons in America. Oppressive clothes....check, Clown Car Vaginas.....check, etc.....

Build up the Taliban, become allies, and GTFO out.

[Rhinox]

It always makes me laugh with people bring up the way the Taliban treat women, when we have Mormons in America. Oppressive clothes....check, Clown Car Vaginas.....check, etc.....

Build up the Taliban, become allies, and GTFO out.

yeah. If we really where concerned about how people were treated we would be in Sudan.

[BRP]

that being said I still rather have him as president then some redneck C-street hick who believes jesus talks to him.

Would that be so much worse than what we have now? Under the Bush years you saw political tension and a lot of opposition, even if slightly ineffectual. At the moment we see that most of the "progressive" side has gone quiet despite that little progress is happening. At least a member of the "retrogressive" bullshit would make this a fight.

Of course it is too early to speak of Obama's entire legacy. AND I would be lying if Obama being elected didn't look a little better than the alternative.

They are very well done videos, and i hope you do see them. I did not like the (in my opinion) excessive images of carnage. They are for influencing the viewer even if they are necessary facts to make the viewer see that people aren't just numbers.

I have to agree. From my perspective as a US citizen nothing is more upsetting than the system we have in place that is based on thievery and decadence at the expense of progress. The contractors. If I recall correctly this was covered in the Part 3 Cost of War video. You can make no "for the people" argument for the war while such a system exists. It has snuffed out what little good this war could have done.

I think putting the civilian casualties portion after that segment was a valid strategic move on their part. It makes it all the more villainous to the viewer.

[Faris]

yeah. If we really where concerned about how people were treated we would be in Sudan.

make that the whole fucking continent; that place is filled with problems.
poverty, guerilla groups, corrupt governments, pirates, human rights issues, ethnic conflicts, the list goes on.

[Titanss]

60 minutes showed something interesting tonight seems they are totally (just now) going to reform there battle tactics to when even if the Taliban escape in the Afghan population they have to let them go if it endangers the citizens. Just fucking now they realize they need the populations help to win this fucking war- pull out now and for fuck sake quit wasting time shit is ridiculous

[Kuya]

Would that be so much worse than what we have now? Under the Bush years you saw political tension and a lot of opposition, even if slightly ineffectual. At the moment we see that most of the "progressive" side has gone quiet despite that little progress is happening. At least a member of the "retrogressive" bullshit would make this a fight.

Of course it is too early to speak of Obama's entire legacy. AND I would be lying if Obama being elected didn't look a little better than the alternative.



I have to agree. From my perspective as a US citizen nothing is more upsetting than the system we have in place that is based on thievery and decadence at the expense of progress. The contractors. If I recall correctly this was covered in the Part 3 Cost of War video. You can make no "for the people" argument for the war while such a system exists. It has snuffed out what little good this war could have done.

I think putting the civilian casualties portion after that segment was a valid strategic move on their part. It makes it all the more villainous to the viewer.

The part that got me the most was the end. Where they mention that both that little girl and the old woman with the 5/7 children died this year. The old woman mentioned that she had no way to care for her children, and now that she's gone, what's going to happen to them? That stayed with me.

[Cadsuane]

Canadian media is shifting in this direction as well.

Crossroads Afghanistan - CBCNews.ca

It's likely that renewed debate in the States about Afghanistan will catalyze some questioning of Canada's own involvement. Otherwise the federal parties have been reluctant to let it become an election issue after a bipartisan agreement between the liberals and tories extended Canadian involvement to 2011. Personally, I'm disappointed. That the media focused on sensationalist tear jerk human interest stories during the entire war effort, and that the parties are profiting off keeping the issue low key with a possible election this winter.

But who the fuck cares about Canada anyway.

[Beckwin]

It always makes me laugh with people bring up the way the Taliban treat women, when we have Mormons in America. Oppressive clothes....check, Clown Car Vaginas.....check, etc.....

Build up the Taliban, become allies, and GTFO out.

I'm not saying it's a reason to have invaded in the first place; I'm more or less questioning whether, at this point, supporting/working with the Taliban versus other potential groups is the best course of action.

and while I dislike Mormonism, especially the incest-rapist fundamentalists, I do think that throwing acid on women who are raped is kinda on a level beyond Mormonism.

[guartz]

The reason why America or any other nation can get involved militarily in Afghanistan is because that country lacks strong federal government. It's a tribal nation, without a solid tax livestock. Of course, the amount of thought given to ethics behind messing with free people is described here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5xVRXLgLxw

Also, Kuya, why bother bring up public opinion on matters like this? Even with overwhelming support, the invasion is still amoral and perhaps illegal.

[Skjie]

Afghanistan was a bad idea when every other country before the UN invaded tried, I really don't understand how we could've thought we would've done better. The best option would be to split the country into its ethnic groups and call it a day.

[Plow]

Build up the Taliban, become allies, and GTFO out.

We all know this strategy works impeccably, of course.

[Dareus]

Afghanistan was a bad idea when every other country before the UN invaded tried, I really don't understand how we could've thought we would've done better. The best option would be to split the country into its ethnic groups and call it a day.

America is number 1! We don't need none of them thar history books telling us what do to! Get me my gun and I'll set things right!