Job Adjustments and Additions: Part I (10/14/2009)

[Taruking]

It has become a common phenomenon in the history of job development in FFXI, highly desirable jobs are more open to discussion of their weaknesses whereas less popular ones always defend their jobs vigorously.

Boasting about your favourite job is not going to help in long run. The dev team is likely to stop adding new abilities or even consider a nerf. RDM is by far the most complete and versatile job in this game, yet ppl don't talk about how awesome the job is on RDM forum and it continues to enjoy new updates despite being the most overpowered job in this game for years. SCH enthusiasts will always promote the job in order to justify their places in party events, it doesn't change the fact that SCH is only a 2nd class WHM/BLM with some mediocre unique spell/abilities and most ppl will continue to invite WHM and BLM over SCH.

BST is another perfect example. Ppl who play the job take pride in their ability to solo from lv1 to 75. Taking BST from lv70 to 75 is literally the worst experience I ever had in this game - 2-3k exp/hr in the Boyadha tree, unavoidable death from time to time, all the effort to 75 just to discover it has no place in merit party or endgame event. There is nothing glamorous about BST solo, charm a pet and throw it at your target, you don't need to repeat the sequence from lv10-75 to master such a simple technique, it's fun for a while but at lv75 it's stupidly, mind-numbingly boring and attitude of BST community has not changed at all. Ppl still think they should stick to solo play despite being the worst DD and a mediocre solo job. SE see no point in adjusting the job since those who play BST never complain about it.

Many jobs have moved on over the past few years, two handed weapon adjustment and SAM update transformed what used to be 2nd class DD into the most powerful melee jobs in this game. Introduction of dancer allows many DD jobs to solo effectively, a quick search on Youtube reveals a long list of NMs soloable by DNC/NIN, SAM/DNC and MNK/DNC. Many BST still believe they can compete with top end DD jobs in merit party and blame other players for using the wrong gear and jugpets. BST alliance are bound to disband after certain period of time for many obvious reasons - less time efficient compared to standard alliance, players fighting for same drop and inability to take down HNM or clear events that drop the most important BST gear.

Hopefully SE don't screw up BST's last chance to shine in this game.

[Khamsin]

I hope covering RNG alone in Part I doesn't mean that Part II will just be little tidbits for BST and SMN together for an overall less-impressive followup.

I hope BST and SMN get their own parts, for a total of three parts.

[Siatdiat]

I hope covering RNG alone in Part I doesn't mean that Part II will just be little tidbits for BST and SMN together for an overall less-impressive followup.

I hope BST and SMN get their own parts, for a total of three parts.

I think the first update players were looking for to enhance bst ended up just being CoP jugs and bison/brave set. How many years ago was that? Since then, most serious bst waited and listened and hoped and so far have been let down for the time they put in on that specific job. I had top notch gear for bst outside relic and 1-2 HQ items before I realized the wisdom of not wasting anymore time on it.

If they add something I hope it gives bst some kind of one of a kind ability the way thf have treasure hunter. I always visualized the job as being one of the best choices for a melee crowd control class, using some kind of new trap type ability. Still, I'll cross my fingers that SE gives me a reason to bust my bst back out and have fun using it again.

[Dooom]

at lv75 it's stupidly, mind-numbingly boring and attitude of BST community has not changed at all. Ppl still think they should stick to solo play despite being the worst DD and a mediocre solo job. SE see no point in adjusting the job since those who play BST never complain about it.

I remember a few months ago on Alla's bst forums, someone popped up with a few complaints about bst and the short-comings of the job, all reasonable points that were well-written... and parts of the forum dismissed the poster simply as a troll, refusing to see anything wrong with bst. I had fun levelling bst, but the only point I see in taking it to 75 is to sub it on other jobs for hax charms for very niche situations.

And good god I hope that there's parts 2 and 3, and not smn and bst clubbed in together with minor tweaks in one "update".

[Midnightjade]

I had top notch gear for bst outside relic and 1-2 HQ items before I realized the wisdom of not wasting anymore time on it.

I have also spent a good deal of time and gil on my BST, but tbh now I'm thinking of selling some of my BST gear to fund my WHM. Not sure it's worth putting money into a job that doesn't really get used at events.

I guess the update will determine what happens.

[Mer]

whm, brd, mnk/nin, sam/war

Nice job. I'm assuming everyone in your pt was competent. I used to think 4-5 was the way to go but had a pt with 6 competent people yesterday and its hard to say weather we could have pulled this off without 6(or haste).

drgx2 drk cor brd rdm

used ring at start, but also lost my own cor's several times due to randomly doing evokers/pressing the wrong macro.


ON subject: Calling RNG is the next bandwagon job after SAM. They are already snatched up for every pt 1-74 and rock most events. BST and SMN updates better be game breaking...

[Khamsin]

Would allowing BST to charm 'greater' monsters fix anything, or be more like a new avatar for SMN?

[Xno Kappa]

ON subject: Calling RNG is the next bandwagon job after SAM.

More like everyone goes to their Mog House and Change Job > Ranger from when they were bandwagoning back in the day.

[Bakthi]

Would allowing BST to charm 'greater' monsters fix anything, or be more like a new avatar for SMN?

It wouldn't hurt. It might open up some new camps, and would give BST main an advantage over /BST 70+. It still wouldn't really address most of BSTs issues once the job hits 75. It would be pretty cool if SE took the Pankration concept further, and let BST capture mobs to use later, Pokemon style. Either that or like...make lizard blood drop from Mamool-ja, and maybe make some of the other Lars ingredients more readily available.

But even if given stronger portable pets, with nothing around to charm in most events (and thus help with add control), it's just another DD, kind of similar to DRG but differently balanced. If the job is to truly be revitalized at endgame, it needs something really different. Snarl was good (and opened up a few interesting strats on mobs like LAC), but not quite enough.

[Spider-Dan]

Kind of sad the only thing really separating BLM from SCH is gear selection.

And Stratagems charges.

So I guess spell selection is now a trivial detail?

[Xno Kappa]

Not sure what you mean by your post but if your trying to compare spell vs. gear selection your wrong either way.

[Spider-Dan]

You claim that the only thing separating BLM and SCH is gear. I submit that differing spell list is also a major factor.

You disagree? Remove Stun, AM2, and -ga spells from BLM's arsenal and tell me how the comparison looks.

[Corrderio]

I remember a few months ago on Alla's bst forums, someone popped up with a few complaints about bst and the short-comings of the job, all reasonable points that were well-written... and parts of the forum dismissed the poster simply as a troll, refusing to see anything wrong with bst. I had fun levelling bst, but the only point I see in taking it to 75 is to sub it on other jobs for hax charms for very niche situations.

And good god I hope that there's parts 2 and 3, and not smn and bst clubbed in together with minor tweaks in one "update".

I think it might have been a pride thing or something. Like how DRGs back when they sucked said DRG = FFXI on Hard Mode.

And it could also be the community, I learned unless you agree with the masses no matter how stupid/wrong they are, if you go against it you'll be rated down in no time. Like when I posted that one JP Button article reguarding the STF's war with the RMT and how they were using stolen CCs to make extra characters which was the driving force behind the 3DS in one of the threads bitching about it.

[Yugl]

You claim that the only thing separating BLM and SCH is gear. I submit that differing spell list is also a major factor.

You disagree? Remove Stun, AM2, and -ga spells from BLM's arsenal and tell me how the comparison looks.

I was going to post this as well, but after giving it some thought, I felt it was a waste trying to explain how much more significant spell variety is for BLM than MP conservation is for SCH. Glad you took the initiative though.

Oh and 2004 DRG IS FFXI ON HARD MODE!

[Kaslo]

Remove Damage Reduction from Sentinel, Enmity Gear, and Shields from Paladin and SCH beats it hands down, clearly SCH is better than Paladin.

[chiyio]

Throw a Merc Pole on a SCH, and remove Hagun, Meditate and Store TP, and a SCH can self skillchain best, as well as MB their own SC. Clearly they are better than SAM.

[Spider-Dan]

Remove Damage Reduction from Sentinel, Enmity Gear, and Shields from Paladin and SCH beats it hands down, clearly SCH is better than Paladin.

I'm sorry, are you trying to prove my point for me?

Unless you are trying to say that none of the above listed things matter, congratulations, you just reinforced what I said. The spell selection disparity between BLM and SCH makes a difference.

[S N K]

Think we'll see the next job update this week?

It should be either today or tomorrow if SE keeps on track with their information. An update to BST would be nice but honestly I'm happy with the job as is.

BLM doesn't need anything else. RDM no need for shit anymore on that job either.

NIN could use a slight update even tho Yonin is pretty badass.

SMN I have no idea what would even make it better.

[Limlight]

sch and blm are both pretty badass and a lot of fun, not sure what people are complaining about :/

poor bst ._.

[Rionel]

SMN update? Hmm.

Well, I definitely see a new avatar coming. I have no idea which avatar they'll be giving us though. Alexander / Odin or something? Something Light based? Something completely off the norm? It's pretty uncertain, but there's something coming.

Job adjustment wise, I'm not terribly sure what they'll do either. Pretty stumped on that part. Unless the new Avatar is the job adjustment... naw. >_>; Maybe something like better avatar melee DoT or I dunno.

Update notes for this need to show up faster!