Job Adjustments and Additions: Part I (10/14/2009)

[Sho]

I'ma calling it, two summons. Just to shock and amaze. D:

[Thiefami]

ability to siphon from the celestial avatars prz >.>

[Ninjiz]

I never understood how so many BST were so happy with the job.
It was only a solo job because nobody wanted to party with them back in the day, what choice did they have? Its kinda like no one wanting to party with PUPs, and then PUPs soloing because they have to, and SE going "wow Pups love solo, yea, its a solo job, yea thats it!!". And maybe 3k+ exp an hr was appealing back when 5k exp was OMFG!! but now, it's just stupid. There's no reason it shouldnt be able to properly function in a party, in a merit, and at endgame.

My only problem is, im not 100% sure what would fix bst. Increased jug lvl cap? Increased Jug pet acc? Ability to choose what TP moves the Pet will do? Major increase in where pet materials can come from? What exactly? I mean I wonder what the BST update will do, but after that, if the problems are not addressed, how about we ask questions and offer suggestions more directly? I mean You have a case of "Hey SE can you please add like some sort of strap thing to the second slot for 2 hander weapons, how come we cant equip anything there?" And what happens? Next update "here you go, straps". "Can we have grilled cheese sandwhiches??" and poof.

Over the years I've seen countless interviews from diff sources with SE. And not once has anyone gave a comprehensive list of what job is broken, and what exactly we feel would fix it. Its always "abc job is broken, what do you plan to do about it"?
Its never "abc job is broken, could you please add/allow "xyz" to fix the issue"? Two diff questions which should get 2 diff responses. Instead every interview is "Lawl how can we beat AV? Can we have another hint"?

[ronin sparthos]

I never understood how so many BST were so happy with the job.
It was only a solo job because nobody wanted to party with them back in the day, what choice did they have? Its kinda like no one wanting to party with PUPs, and then PUPs soloing because they have to, and SE going "wow Pups love solo, yea, its a solo job, yea thats it!!". And maybe 3k+ exp an hr was appealing back when 5k exp was OMFG!! but now, it's just stupid. There's no reason it shouldnt be able to properly function in a party, in a merit, and at endgame.

My only problem is, im not 100% sure what would fix bst. Increased jug lvl cap? Increased Jug pet acc? Ability to choose what TP moves the Pet will do? Major increase in where pet materials can come from? What exactly? I mean I wonder what the BST update will do, but after that, if the problems are not addressed, how about we ask questions and offer suggestions more directly? I mean You have a case of "Hey SE can you please add like some sort of strap thing to the second slot for 2 hander weapons, how come we cant equip anything there?" And what happens? Next update "here you go, straps". "Can we have grilled cheese sandwhiches??" and poof.

Over the years I've seen countless interviews from diff sources with SE. And not once has anyone gave a comprehensive list of what job is broken, and what exactly we feel would fix it. Its always "abc job is broken, what do you plan to do about it"?
Its never "abc job is broken, could you please add/allow "xyz" to fix the issue"? Two diff questions which should get 2 diff responses. Instead every interview is "Lawl how can we beat AV? Can we have another hint"?

The ability to pick monster (or at least influence it) TP commands, the uncapping of all jugs and some incentive to use more than Carrie/Lars or pets that exploit the family weakness would be a start. The problem is that so many places have nothing for BST to charm, the job is going to need jugpets to get boosted in order to be able to actually do something at half the endgame areas.

I assume this is where some stance command could come in, weakening the BST but boosting the pet to such a point where the pet can actually get some meaningful DoT onto the mob. This could allow BST to become some kind of niche DD that excels in not being an MP burden (think Ranger) while being able to actually you know.... relay some meaningful damage to monsters in the process.

The key to solving BST is buffing jugs (the main way of participating in many endgame events, should be way hardier than puppets, wyverns and avatars anyway), introducing more variety in jugpets (there is simply no reason BST shouldn't be able to use specific greater mobs to distinguish themselves from /BST) and that magic incentive to use pet family vs pet family. (att/acc/haste bonuses?)

Id also say allow pets to be buffed, but that'd be way too broken..... yeah right.

[Gergall]

The ability to pick monster (or at least influence it) TP commands, the uncapping of all jugs and some incentive to use more than Carrie/Lars or pets that exploit the family weakness would be a start.

The "Beast Affinity" merit trait says they will never fix jug caps. Easily one of the stupidest and most unnecessary restrictions in a game that has a lot of stupid and unnecessary restrictions.

Yeah lets give BST a ton of jug pets, but most of them won't work at 75. Then you can max out a merit category to add a couple more, but most will still be garbage.

[Isiolia]

I generally thing that'd be the way to go with BST.

My take one it would be something like...

Uncap all jugs, increase their general strength, and possibly give BST a series of traits to grant a bonus to jug pets based on gear/buffs. Yes, there's Beast Affinity, but even "uncapped" jugs aren't automatically 75, they're just not hard capped at level 50 or 65 or whatnot without extra boosts.

Give BST stances to either sap strength from their pet, or weaken themselves while making the pet stronger. Perhaps couple that with giving different jug pets different stat bonuses that would be recieved. IE, get Haste bonus from one, Double Attack from another, Defense Bonus from crabs, etc.

This still keeps BST tied to their pet rather than inherent offensive traits/JAs, which the job completely lacks. For activities where the BST can melee, they could sap strength from the pet and be a stronger generic DD, hopefully more on par with most others. In endgame, they could have a pet that's closer to an EM charmed pet anywhere, which would likely give 'em more value.

Or hey, bump 'em to A- Scythe with Guillotine >_>

[dejet]

I left this thread like a week back and on page 4, How are people still fighting over BLM needing something? Its been said 100 times BLM uses way to much mp that is what is wrong with the job, sch can cast everything but AMII(fyi not worth using because mp/dmg is way way lower then T4's) doing 500 dmg more for over 100 more mp?

Do not come back with "well use stone 1 then its best mp/dmg" you and I both know its bullshit.

Even if it was not something game breaking Id just like an Update to my job is all, playing the same job 6-7 years gets old. It is used for a lot of events and I like playing it still, I just want something new to toy around with even if its not game breaking like sch getting T4 nukes.

Our only update was what when SE gave us E skill in scythe? Come on I can deal more dmg with a staff then even a 90 dmg scythe with 200 skill. that was a joke by se I think.

Also can not forget the great nerf.

edit: bst use to charm greater pets and even NMs I think, right?

[Knightfell]

You claim that the only thing separating BLM and SCH is gear. I submit that differing spell list is also a major factor.

You disagree? Remove Stun, AM2, and -ga spells from BLM's arsenal and tell me how the comparison looks.

AM2 and -ga nuke spells are so situationally usefull as to be laughable, I would happily trade both for a nifty /ja that would allow me to do higher damage or have a lower recast time. T'4's are our bread and butter.

I have a nearly pimp BLM, and a decently geared SCH, it's insane that I can go to Mount Z and make the other BLM's cry with my T4's, even with their higher native +MAB, potency merits, and sorcerer's ring.

A Hybrid should not be able to outdo the specialist in their main function if gear and merits are equal.

However, if the Hybrid shows more effort (through gear or merits) then by all means, they should be on top.

No one is saying that a SCH can main heal and drop zomg T4's at the same time, strats limit that, but in situations where the SCH is free to focus on offense it is often to close for comfort.

Yes, BLM does not *Need* anything, like BST, DNC, hell even SMN do, but it's insane that whenever we try and petion for some sort of nifty new toy, people come out of the woodwork and start trolling. Oddly enough, it always seems to be the same couple of people, go figure.

For the record I'd buff SCH even further, Morrigains and tweaking the Helix forumla come immediately to mind.

To me SCH is the "BLM update". The only reason people haven't leveled it enmass is due to the state of magic in this game, aside from its age and everyone and their uncle having leveled BLM back in the day.

In the end, if you can't beat them, join em.

Rambling aside, I hope that BST and SMN both get epic updates.

[Midnightjade]

I generally thing that'd be the way to go with BST.

My take one it would be something like...

Uncap all jugs, increase their general strength, and possibly give BST a series of traits to grant a bonus to jug pets based on gear/buffs. Yes, there's Beast Affinity, but even "uncapped" jugs aren't automatically 75, they're just not hard capped at level 50 or 65 or whatnot without extra boosts.

Give BST stances to either sap strength from their pet, or weaken themselves while making the pet stronger. Perhaps couple that with giving different jug pets different stat bonuses that would be recieved. IE, get Haste bonus from one, Double Attack from another, Defense Bonus from crabs, etc.

This still keeps BST tied to their pet rather than inherent offensive traits/JAs, which the job completely lacks. For activities where the BST can melee, they could sap strength from the pet and be a stronger generic DD, hopefully more on par with most others. In endgame, they could have a pet that's closer to an EM charmed pet anywhere, which would likely give 'em more value.

Or hey, bump 'em to A- Scythe with Guillotine >_>

This is all good stuff. If it were up to me though, I'd really keep it simple. Allow BST to specify the pet's TP move. If that stupid Mandy jug that uses 1000 needles once in a blue moon is an issue preventing this, remove it from the game. Allow BST to skillchain with their pet. BLU can skillchain with the spells they learn from mobs, just apply the same reasoning to BST.

Also, alter the characteristics of a few of the mobs in some of the higher level areas. Make those big goldfish in Sea charmable (Hpemde), maybe also the Xzomits out there. Make something in the Palace/Garden charmable. For god's sake make something indoors in Sky charmable. In Nyzul Isle, a lot of mobs should be charmable but none of them currently are. Make them charmable. Ditto for Limbus.

If SE is interested in having a pet job participate in endgame, they need to allow that job to use native pets in endgame areas including Sea, Sky, Nyzul Isle and Limbus. The way things are set up currently is just plain lazy game design.

[ronin sparthos]

The "Beast Affinity" merit trait says they will never fix jug caps. Easily one of the stupidest and most unnecessary restrictions in a game that has a lot of stupid and unnecessary restrictions.

Yeah lets give BST a ton of jug pets, but most of them won't work at 75. Then you can max out a merit category to add a couple more, but most will still be garbage.

That could easily be worked around, increasing the pets parameters (stats) instead of the level it spawns at or simply SE can leave that the way it is (for NQ jugs) and allow all HQ jugs to always spawn at your level.

It would not be the first time that SE takes a steaming shit on merits or JA altering gear either way.

With uncapped pets, BST would have 15 HQ pets to choose from to target family weaknesses and from there SE could easily just tack on either:

-A new series of big mob jugs (hardiest of the hardy mobs, for party/endgame play. Stuff like Orobon, Morbol, Wamoura, Manticore, Raptor, Greater Bird, Slug)
-The sealed-away jugpets that have been floating around forever (bird, leech, slime, coeurl, white rabbit)

The main problem still lies in getting BST away from the DRG pitfall in being yet another DD with a relatively uncontrollable pet.

Being able to buff jugpets (songs, buffs, cures) might solve things along with the BST weakening itself to further the pet more (leaving the BST vulnerable as a balancer).

This would leave BST in endgame as a job that could send in disposable pets to deal damage while the vulnerable BST sits in the back and issues commands/rewards the pet.

This would be the most ideal place for BST to end up and another JA allowing the BST to sap power from it's pets would as said before would help in situations where front-lining is an option.

Anything short of pets getting boosted means BST ends up being the DRG without the pointy sticks that makes the birdies fall down and angon.

[Corrderio]

I never understood how so many BST were so happy with the job.
It was only a solo job because nobody wanted to party with them back in the day, what choice did they have? Its kinda like no one wanting to party with PUPs, and then PUPs soloing because they have to, and SE going "wow Pups love solo, yea, its a solo job, yea thats it!!". And maybe 3k+ exp an hr was appealing back when 5k exp was OMFG!! but now, it's just stupid. There's no reason it shouldnt be able to properly function in a party, in a merit, and at endgame.

My only problem is, im not 100% sure what would fix bst. Increased jug lvl cap? Increased Jug pet acc? Ability to choose what TP moves the Pet will do? Major increase in where pet materials can come from? What exactly? I mean I wonder what the BST update will do, but after that, if the problems are not addressed, how about we ask questions and offer suggestions more directly? I mean You have a case of "Hey SE can you please add like some sort of strap thing to the second slot for 2 hander weapons, how come we cant equip anything there?" And what happens? Next update "here you go, straps". "Can we have grilled cheese sandwhiches??" and poof.

Over the years I've seen countless interviews from diff sources with SE. And not once has anyone gave a comprehensive list of what job is broken, and what exactly we feel would fix it. Its always "abc job is broken, what do you plan to do about it"?
Its never "abc job is broken, could you please add/allow "xyz" to fix the issue"? Two diff questions which should get 2 diff responses. Instead every interview is "Lawl how can we beat AV? Can we have another hint"?

Like I said before, I think it's a pride thing similar to how DRGs back in when DRG was the most hated job said DRG = FFXI on Hard Mode. However as far as I'm concerned, saying a job is a "solo job" is just a nice way of saying the job sucks ass and has to resort to solo. FFXI is mostly team effort, so "solo jobs" have no reason to be in this game.

For the jug issue there's so much shit wrong them, level caps, having a set time they stay out til they despawn, availability of jug pets on the AH, and the most annoying... jug pets are weak compared to a mob of their level and they have no type of edge to make up for this, unless you consider Snarl an edge.

Hopefully when we get the update notes SE won't do something retarded like making more jug pets.

[Ninjiz]

The ability to pick monster (or at least influence it) TP commands, the uncapping of all jugs and some incentive to use more than Carrie/Lars or pets that exploit the family weakness would be a start. The problem is that so many places have nothing for BST to charm, the job is going to need jugpets to get boosted in order to be able to actually do something at half the endgame areas.

I assume this is where some stance command could come in, weakening the BST but boosting the pet to such a point where the pet can actually get some meaningful DoT onto the mob. This could allow BST to become some kind of niche DD that excels in not being an MP burden (think Ranger) while being able to actually you know.... relay some meaningful damage to monsters in the process.

The key to solving BST is buffing jugs (the main way of participating in many endgame events, should be way hardier than puppets, wyverns and avatars anyway), introducing more variety in jugpets (there is simply no reason BST shouldn't be able to use specific greater mobs to distinguish themselves from /BST) and that magic incentive to use pet family vs pet family. (att/acc/haste bonuses?)

Id also say allow pets to be buffed, but that'd be way too broken..... yeah right.

See, I find this to be very reasonable. And it would allow BST to DD in a more unique way so it just doesnt end up being a faceless DD. I only wish that these kind of suggestion were included in a BSt question to SE in some major interview. Anytime Ive ever seen BSt brought up, its always been "BST needs help, what do you plan to do to fix this?". Which off the bat leaves them room to say "something is planned down the line" or 'no plans at this time". It always frustrated me to no end that everytime an interview said a job needed help, the interviewer would never ever ask SE a direct suggestion that would fix the problem. One of the last interviews I saw (cant remember by who, and when) but he pretty much said "PUP sucks in a party".... and SE says "we realize there are some issues" or something... and the guy moved on to the next question. I mean, no follow up question on what SE had planne dto do, and not one suggestion to fix it. I honestly dont think the dev team play the game hardcore, or somply clearly have their favorite jobs lol. But I am curious to see what they have for BSt and SMN.

[Isiolia]

This is all good stuff. If it were up to me though, I'd really keep it simple. Allow BST to specify the pet's TP move. If that stupid Mandy jug that uses 1000 needles once in a blue moon is an issue preventing this, remove it from the game. Allow BST to skillchain with their pet. BLU can skillchain with the spells they learn from mobs, just apply the same reasoning to BST.

Also, alter the characteristics of a few of the mobs in some of the higher level areas. Make those big goldfish in Sea charmable (Hpemde), maybe also the Xzomits out there. Make something in the Palace/Garden charmable. For god's sake make something indoors in Sky charmable. In Nyzul Isle, a lot of mobs should be charmable but none of them currently are. Make them charmable. Ditto for Limbus.

If SE is interested in having a pet job participate in endgame, they need to allow that job to use native pets in endgame areas including Sea, Sky, Nyzul Isle and Limbus. The way things are set up currently is just plain lazy game design.

While the ability to specify, even in a general range, what the TP move is from Sic would be nice, I don't think it'd fix what ails BST.
The simple fact of the matter is that you have a job with all the inherent melee prowess of a BRD + A- Axe assisted in most cases by a pet that does a fraction of their damage.
Letting you pick what (mostly) underpowered TP move your pet uses when it actually manages to get 100% TP won't really offset that.

Having charmable mobs all over would certainly help, but at the same time that introduces a whole bunch of other logistical problems.

While it's not always a popular opinion among BSTs, to me the issue is better approached via jug pets, as they're consistently available. Doing that is a lot easier than ensuring that viable pets are available in sufficient quantity in every endgame area. I agree, being able to charm Sea mobs and the like would make sense, but then you go into a BC area or something and once again come up short.

It'd be a much simpler solution, in my mind, to improve BST in a self-contained manner, versus trying to adjust the game world to be a better place for them to play.

[Elesar]

A few years ago I came up with a list of things that I would do to help make Beastmaster a slightly better job in endgame events. All this talk about beastmasters made me take a look back at that list to see if I still feel the same way. All I wish for is that one day where someone says "Hey, we have Einherjar tonight! Let's invite PlayerA on his/her Beastmaster so that we can kill these mobs faster." or "Man, I wish we had a Beastmaster here to tame these mobs for us so that this wouldn't be such a pain in the ass Nyzul Isle."

Well here is that old ass list I made several years ago.

Spoiler: show

[[) I would focus on enhancing Pet Jobs (SMN, BST, PUP, and DRG). All pet jobs will have the ability "Reward".

[[) I would release pet food that works exactly as adventurer food does except I would add a few extra ones. 7 new types of pet food - Pet Accuracy, Pet Attack, Pet Defense, Pet Magic Defense, Pet HP+MP, Pet Magic Attack bonus, Pet Magic Accuracy bonus (this will also enhance enhancing spells / abilities), and Pet Store TP bonus.

All pet food will last 30 minutes or 3 hours (similar to adventurer food) and the duration can be enhanced by the effects of Sigil and Sanction. When a food wears off of a pet the message "PetName's food effect wears off." Only one type of pet food can be active on the pet at a single time. Reward can also be used as normal with the pet foods that heal Pet HP even while under the effect of any consumable 30 minute or 3 hour pet food.

[[) Pets can now be healed by any player's cures spells. This includes spells such as Cure, Drain Samba, Healing Waltz, other pets' healing moves, and other abilities that raise HP. The healing Pet Foods such as Pet Food Zeta will not only heal the pet and give a temporary regeneration effect, it will now also enhance and player based cure spells that are casted upon the pet for a duration of 5 minutes till the effect wears off. This effect will heal the pet for slightly more HP than a normal cure spell to encourage the use of healing pet foods. The command "/blockaid on" will also stop anyone outside of the user's alliance from casting spells on any pets within the alliance. Also, party support abilities and spells (warcry, mantra, haste, and such) will also affect pets.

[[) All level restrictions on jug pets will be removed. The job trait "Beast Affinity" will now raise the pet stats STR/DEX/VIT/MND/INT/CHR by 5 for each merit level allowing for a maximum of +25 to each stat when fully merited.
All armor and equipment that reads "enhances Call Beast" will now increase the jug pet's offensive job traits by 1% instead of raising the level of the summoned jug pet. (Example: FungarFamiliar - job class Warrior - job trait Attack bonus +1%)

[[) 7 new jug pets will be introduced for each of the newest expansions. 1 jug pet from each mob class (vermin, bird, amorph, lizard, aquan, plantoid, and beast). So, 14 new jug pets total. All of the HQ jug pets will be reskinned to emphasize on the uniqueness of these pets. 1 of the 14 new jug pets will be a Hecteyes pet. This pet will focus primarly on casting magical spells from a distance (similar to a Puppetmaster's BLM frame).

[[) The time restriction on jug pets that forces them to despawn will be removed. Also, you will be able to zone and log out with your pet. This does not apply for pets that were acquired using the job ability "Charm".

[[) Two new job abilities will be added to the job Beastmaster. Ability 1 - Transfers the user's pet's job traits over to the Beastmaster enhancing the user but weakening the pet. Ability 2 - Transfers the Beastmaster's strengh to the pet but weakens the Beastmaster's offensive skills. Both these abilities will only work when a jug pet is summoned with the ability "Call Beast".

[[) Minor tweaks - The job ability "Feral Hawl" will now terrorize the mob for a duration of 10 seconds and will inflict a special bonus to damage caused by skillchain and magic burst. This bonus effect will last for 30 seconds and will be followed by a message saying "TheMob's terror daze effect wears off." "Feral Hawl" will be unresistatable.

[[) A new piece of armor will be introduced that is equipable by all jobs and races that when equiped will allow the user to view all of his or her pet's status information. Similar to a Puppetmaster's animator, the user will be able to see his or her pet's HP, MP, Defense, Attack, Magic Attack, and many other important status details. This includes new information such as pet temperament, mob family, and job traits. This piece of equipment can be used by any job class that can either charm pets or summon them including anyone with the sub jobs Beastmaster or Summoner. This item cannot be equiped by a Puppetmaster that currently has a Puppet summoned. Status icons will also be viewable from directly on top of the user's pet's name. This will help see what detrimental and positive status effects are on the pet at the time.

[Midnightjade]

I agree, being able to charm Sea mobs and the like would make sense, but then you go into a BC area or something and once again come up short.

Hmm, I think you guys may be right. Some really interesting ideas in these last few posts. I sure hope SE is on the same page.

[Taruking]

Jugpets have such low inherent melee accuracy adding more uncapped jug is not going to make a huge difference. They are basically TP feeding machine with only ~60% accuracy which cannot receive useful buffs directly from support jobs. If SE make them too strong on their own, players are more likely to stick to BST alliance.

If SE decide to add Sic II, it will probably only work on jugpets, don't think SE will go through the trouble to program every single charmable mobs in this game. A lazy but quick fix is to simply add Sic II and shorten Sic cooldown, let HNM build resistance to 1000 needles to stop BST alliance from abusing Amigo and make lv100 alchemist like me filthy rich.

[ronin sparthos]

Jugpets have such low inherent melee accuracy adding more uncapped jug is not going to make a huge difference. They are basically TP feeding machine with only ~60% accuracy which cannot receive useful buffs directly from support jobs. If SE make them too strong on their own, players are more likely to stick to BST alliance.

If SE decide to add Sic II, it will probably only work on jugpets, don't think SE will go through the trouble to program every single charmable mobs in this game. A lazy but quick fix is to simply add Sic II and shorten Sic cooldown, let HNM build resistance to 1000 needles to stop BST alliance from abusing Amigo and make lv100 alchemist like me filthy rich.

On your first point, we have an example of a job that currently has the ability to do "hateless" damage much like a BST potentially could if the pets were actually buffed - Summoner.

SMN is far from the only DD used at events, BST pets could be potential nice DPS but at the end of the day they cannot equip gear, do not have the ability to quickly adapt to situations and most pet TP moves aren't going to compare with players.

BST could be a safety DD, the job you call in when you dont want to deal with AOEs or want less burden on your mages but it would no way replace a typical DD alliance.

On 1000 needles? There are plenty of TP moves that BLU got that were nerfed hard, Amigo's 1k needles could easily be dealt the same fate.

They really do need an acc buff or just flat out access to bard songs and support from outside the BST.

[Yugl]

The easiest way to fix BST would be to simply give it JAs and traits that make it comparable to other DDs, but only on the condition that they have no pet. Perhaps make it work like Spirit Surge in that they sacrifice their pet for the duration of their buffs.

AM2 and -ga nuke spells are so situationally usefull as to be laughable, I would happily trade both for a nifty /ja that would allow me to do higher damage or have a lower recast time. T'4's are our bread and butter.

I have a nearly pimp BLM, and a decently geared SCH, it's insane that I can go to Mount Z and make the other BLM's cry with my T4's, even with their higher native +MAB, potency merits, and sorcerer's ring.

A Hybrid should not be able to outdo the specialist in their main function if gear and merits are equal.

However, if the Hybrid shows more effort (through gear or merits) then by all means, they should be on top.

No one is saying that a SCH can main heal and drop zomg T4's at the same time, strats limit that, but in situations where the SCH is free to focus on offense it is often to close for comfort.

Yes, BLM does not *Need* anything, like BST, DNC, hell even SMN do, but it's insane that whenever we try and petion for some sort of nifty new toy, people come out of the woodwork and start trolling. Oddly enough, it always seems to be the same couple of people, go figure.

For the record I'd buff SCH even further, Morrigains and tweaking the Helix forumla come immediately to mind.

To me SCH is the "BLM update". The only reason people haven't leveled it enmass is due to the state of magic in this game, aside from its age and everyone and their uncle having leveled BLM back in the day.

In the end, if you can't beat them, join em.

It's quite simple. People can complain about how SCH trends on the toes of BLM and has superior MP conservation and they'll be correct. However, it's not significant enough to matter. In most cases where magic damage is concerned, BLM can already bring to the front what is needed. Notable exceptions include NMs that you solo using helixes. This leads to my next point, which is that since BLM is capable of comfortably fulfilling the nuking role, and we generally assume SCH can outnuke BLM, it's assumed that both classes can fit the nuking role. However, it is important to remember that BLM brings forth spells that make it fulfill roles other than simply nuker, which limits the amount of members necessary for an event. Instances that require stun would demand an extra member if using SCH as your main source of nukes. However, BLM circumvents this issue and fulfills both roles. Similarly, instances where Agas will benefit the PT greatly, BLM will provide a dual role as well. Hence, as you can see, when speaking with regards to BLM v SCH, you have to remember that we're not simply talking about nuking.

Some may wonder why this doesn't apply to melee as well, and the answer is quite simply that there are various reasons. One being that the secondary roles that melee are likely to be in (tank) tends to follow the general trend for damage. That is, SAM is one of the best melee tanks and one of the best melees. A noticeable exception to this rule is DRG whose tanking capabilities is trash, yet out damages MNK; and we can see that in some cases, MNK is preferable over DRG for tanking reasons even if the MNK's DMG is inferior. Similarly, even if BLM's nuking potential falls short of SCH, it's ability to fulfill other roles (Thus allowing you to limit the size of your PT or alliance) makes it a strong competitor. I would wager that this difference is even more significant than the differences in gear between SCH and BLM.

Some would take this as an opportunity to remind us that SCH has healing potential. To that notice I point out that it's healing potential is limited and if cases where healing is needed, chances are that you'll have a main healer with haste covering this role. Consequently, SCH won't save your PT from needing a healer as a BLM would save you from needing a DRK. In short, although SCH is capable of outnuking BLM, it doesn't necessarily save you a PT slot as BLM's spells selection would. Thus, we're left with BLM's spell selection as the greatest difference between BLM and SCH. Is this cutting it close? Quite obviously, but it's more reassuring than gear selection.

As for BLM getting something just for fun, it's nice, but I would save updates for when you *need* them since it's obvious that SE doesn't pass updates out all too often.

[ronin sparthos]

The easiest way to fix BST would be to simply give it JAs and traits that make it comparable to other DDs, but only on the condition that they have no pet. Perhaps make it work like Spirit Surge in that they sacrifice their pet for the duration of their buffs.

You mean.... Warrior?

[Gergall]

Yeah and give SMN access to Cure 4 and 5 but they can't have an avatar out.