Job Adjustments and Additions: Part I (10/14/2009)

[Taruking]

On your first point, we have an example of a job that currently has the ability to do "hateless" damage much like a BST potentially could if the pets were actually buffed - Summoner.

SMN is far from the only DD used at events, BST pets could be potential nice DPS but at the end of the day they cannot equip gear, do not have the ability to quickly adapt to situations and most pet TP moves aren't going to compare with players.

On 1000 needles? There are plenty of TP moves that BLU got that were nerfed hard, Amigo's 1k needles could easily be dealt the same fate.

They really do need an acc buff or just flat out access to bard songs and support from outside the BST.

The key point here is "TPless" not "hateless". SMN BP do not feed any TP to target mob. Jugpets have the highest TP fed/inflicted damage ratio, much worse than any DD job.

Current version of Amigo's 1000 needles cannot be resisted and will always land full on nearly all HNMs provided they don't have invincible or physical shield effect up. If PLD get atonement why shouldn't BST be allowed to use 1000 needles at will? It costs at least 12k for lv100 Alchemist to make a sunwater and takes longer for Amigo to build 100 TP than a well geared PLD. Provided there is a system in place to prevent BST alliance from abusing 1k needles, it's perfectly reasonable for endgame alliance to invite 2-3 BST for some quick spike damage.

[Taruking]

However, if the Hybrid shows more effort (through gear or merits) then by all means, they should be on top.

No one is saying that a SCH can main heal and drop zomg T4's at the same time, strats limit that, but in situations where the SCH is free to focus on offense it is often to close for comfort.

Yes, BLM does not *Need* anything, like BST, DNC, hell even SMN do, but it's insane that whenever we try and petion for some sort of nifty new toy, people come out of the woodwork and start trolling. Oddly enough, it always seems to be the same couple of people, go figure.

For the record I'd buff SCH even further, Morrigains and tweaking the Helix forumla come immediately to mind.

To me SCH is the "BLM update". The only reason people haven't leveled it enmass is due to the state of magic in this game, aside from its age and everyone and their uncle having leveled BLM back in the day.

For one last time stop saying SCH can outnuke BLM in long fight, unless "long fight" means you can only nuke twice per min and never allow to rest.

At lv75, BLM have 200-300 more MP than SCH (can't remember the exact number), with Clear Mind V it takes roughly the same amount of time for both BLM and SCH to rest from zero to full mp. BLM will be able to empty their mp pool quicker which allows them to start resting for MP sooner than SCH. Even though their spells are not the most MP efficient, BLM will always outnuke SCH provided they keep their nuke cycle as short as possible.

[Gergall]

Hmmm, since when can SCH wear Morrigan lol?

He was saying that even though he wants to see BLM buffed, he would also like to see SCH buffed by adding them to Morrigan.

[Taruking]

He was saying that even though he wants to see BLM buffed, he would also like to see SCH buffed by adding them to Morrigan.

Yeah I only realise this after I reread his post. My bad X)

[vagus]

Bst scan ability should let bsts take buffs from mob and transfer to player or pet. CC casting Meteor. woot woot. Lol.

[Khamsin]

Bst scan ability should let bsts take buffs from mob and transfer to player or pet. CC casting Meteor. woot woot. Lol.

It should allow you to see what statuses are affecting the mob you have on track, as well as give HP, MP, and TP values (or percentages).

As for BST pets, it'd be nice if the accuracy, attack speed, and damage were all boosted so that the combined total of BST and pet are on par with other DDs on HNMs. That way, SMN can have their niche burst hateless, TPless damage, and BST can be more about consistent DPS with their pets. If the BST is standing back and only the pet is meleeing, then the DPS will be less than other DDs, but you won't have to be worried about deaths as much. Currently, some pets are also great at soaking up damage and resisting special attacks, if they have hate.

[Karbuncle]

So like, Where the hell is our part II =<

[Yugl]

You mean.... Warrior?

Well I did say the easiest way. That and no respectable WARs dual wield!

[Tsuko_Asura]

ugpets have the highest TP fed/inflicted damage ratio, much worse than any DD job.

Taruking, Monk. Monk, Taruking.

Now that you two are acquainted..

[dejet]

add some info to wide scan on bst. idk also just thinking that maybe when a bst uses the right pet vs a mob maybe the mob is weekend to all of the pt? be it small that be a cool add to bst Id think. The pet gets an even bigger boost then it has now, and the rest of the pt maybe gets a 5% boost to dmg? no clue but something like that always seemed good. could work more then just a flat 5% boost to all dmg. Just an idea that you would think come from having a bst in the pt(maybe ally?)

bst is king of monsters let their *info* of the mob make the other jobs stronger, maybe a JA that when matched up with the right jug pet(or normal mob) on a recast of 10min and lasting 5min makes you fight stronger(for your pt or ally) makes the mob weeker or something along them line. *if you match it right with the monster you are fighting* it could last for all mobs. sorta like dnc effect, so long as your pet is attacking the mob that is weak to it you get this boost.

to make you want more then one bst or make it ok for more then one bst they could make it sorta stack. you know maybe the 1st bst gives 5% 2nd 2% 3rd 2% and so on. it would not make you want 18 bsts because 90% would not out do DD with haste builds and what not, but adding 5% or 7%(because it be adding it to everyone) might make you think about giving them a spot or two.

really they could do 100 things to bst to make them better.

[Psion]

If that stupid Mandy jug that uses 1000 needles once in a blue moon

"The Yhoatar Mandragora readies 1000 needles. The Yhoatar exp party was defeated by the Yhoatar Mandragora."

>_>

Come on, how could you forget the mighty name of CACTAUR!?!

But the thought was amusing.

As far as pets go, I feel sort of sorry for bsts/smns with their pets. I mean, those things seem to have abysmal accuracy and attack, excluding some natural pets such as scorpions. But not too many places have such useful pets in exp or endgame, and avatars just seem terrible to leave meleeing usually. Fenrir's the best and even he doesn't do terribly good DoT, just spike damage. Automatons are lucky due to attachments, maneuvers to enhance them, and the typical pet boosting gear, so my Oniwaka can parse 90%ish accuracy on Kirin with just a /cor puppet roll. (it gets around cap with a real cor)

I'd say boost jugpets and avatars natural attack/base damage/accuracy to something fairly decent, perhaps to that of an automaton with attachments but no maneuvers up; then include the stances that sap master ability for avatar/pet power up. That should put their DoT close to or on par with an automaton for their pets, which makes them rather effective damage dealers. I mean, when I duod valkeng (PUP AF head fight) with a bst friend for his pup, we fought her valoredge frame and his fungaur with capped beast affinity merits was only parsing about 48% accuracy... my WHITE MAGE frame was parsing about 73% from the occasional time valkeng ran into oni's melee range, and I didn't even have thunder maneuvers up, or even accuracy attachments. It seems odd that a jugpet could do so terrible on a mob that isn't even that high a level. :s (though utterly terrifying in power... we went as pup/nin with whm bot and bst/nin with fungaur tank, and nearly lost due to her ridiculously high melee acc/physical damage taken, and high powered hits... 200-300 a whack anyone? Oh, and after a couple minutes she hit at nearly chigoe speed.)

Perhaps a stance that lowers avatar perp. cost while boosting their offensive capabilities in exchange for avatar/summoner defenses? That might let summoners fit into the DD area while still providing some support.

[Rooney]

Taruking, Monk. Monk, Taruking.

Now that you two are acquainted..

Tsuko_Asura, Thief. Thief, Tsuko_Asura.


Between subtle blow and penance, monk is far from the worst TP/dmg ratio DD job.

[Taruking]

Tsuko_Asura, Thief. Thief, Tsuko_Asura.


Between subtle blow and penance, monk is far from the worst TP/dmg ratio DD job.

Any melee job with good gear eating proper food and fully buffed with BRD songs/COR rolls/Haste will do better than BST's jugpet in term of TP/damage ratio. Jugpets can only use TP move every 1min 40secs with max Sic recast merit and have no control over the TP moves they use. Imagine a naked WAR without any food or buffs who can only WS every 1 min 40 sec, use Raging Rush 1 out of 9 times and 40% of his TP moves are going to miss.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Tsuko_Asura, Thief. Thief, Tsuko_Asura.


Between subtle blow and penance, monk is far from the worst TP/dmg ratio DD job.

On anything of significance, thief has a multitude of alternative subjobs that can do wonders for their damage output.

Subtle Blow is bullshit. As long as monk has to attack twice per round to deal the same damage, they're still top dog in terms of TP given(Footwork doesn't count).

[Kaslo]

On anything of significance, thief has a multitude of alternative subjobs that can do wonders for their damage output.

Subtle Blow is bullshit. As long as monk has to attack twice per round to deal the same damage, they're still top dog in terms of TP given(Footwork doesn't count).

You obviously haven't seen BLU (but that includes physical spells)

[Nevex]

On anything of significance, thief has a multitude of alternative subjobs that can do wonders for their damage output.

Subtle Blow is bullshit. As long as monk has to attack twice per round to deal the same damage, they're still top dog in terms of TP given(Footwork doesn't count).

What about BLU then? Sword damage/TP feed ratio isn't horrible but on anything you're not CBalling you're going to feed a ton of TP between melee damage and multi-hit spells. Keep in mind MNK has Penance to fix its problems, BLU spells as far as I know aren't affected by SB.

[Yugl]

Does it matter who has the worst TP:DMG ratio?

[Mirage]

What about BLU then? Sword damage/TP feed ratio isn't horrible but on anything you're not CBalling you're going to feed a ton of TP between melee damage and multi-hit spells. Keep in mind MNK has Penance to fix its problems, BLU spells as far as I know aren't affected by SB.

You sure? Cause it does affect other spells.

I was also of the impression that the player's delay affected the TP fed to monsters, so that two low delay hits from a mnk wouldn't be that far from what one 2h hit would feed them. Correct me if I'm wrong :/.

[Spider-Dan]

Ignoring Subtle Blow/Store TP, a mob gets your TP return+3 for each melee/ranged hit. So if a MNK hits twice for 6 TP each, that's (6+3) + (6+3) = 18 TP to the mob, whereas if a DRG hits once for 10 TP, that's 13 TP to the mob.

[Mirage]

Subtle blow 4 (which is native to MNK) cuts that down by 20% though, which should put it at about 14.4, if my math isn't completely off. It's still more, but not *that* much .