Dead Server Syndrome?

[Baelorn]

Or outside of a ring and a sword, it's all obtainable through Einherjar which is schedulable, gives multiple drops, and isn't fostering the "need" to cheat.

Einherjar was not some magical fix for everyone wanting king gear. It was simply another option for people who already did endgame to get more gear than they were already getting. It's too difficult for people who didn't get involved in endgame prior to einherjar being released. It's also very rarely done outside of preexisting endgame shells, at least on Phoenix.

[Kipling]

Einherjar was not some magical fix for everyone wanting king gear.

I don't know... I was pretty damn happy about it. 2 hours of time spent (Odin included) with nice drops and Odin specific items as well whereas I could be sitting in DA for 3 hours for one day and not even claim something sounds pretty good to me.

[Narol]

Though I do believe it's mostly an elitist mentality that "if you don't have this done you must be a gimp or idiot" because they can't see past their ginormous e-peen to see the game's current state and how their lack of help is why these 'gimps' exists.

"You're such a gimp. Why don't you have X, Y, and Z done?"
"Because it's impossible to find someone to do them with, that's why."
"They're so easy you can do them with less than six people in about ten minutes in your sleep. Goddamn gimp."
"So you'll take ten minutes out of your day to help me, then?"
"What, are you crazy? X, Y, and Z? I'm not redoing that shit ever, even for LS mates. Way too annoying. Now, get X, Y, and Z done and I'll think about not calling you a gimp anymore."

I admit, not everyone has this mentality, but certainly enough do.

[Yugl]

I don't know... I was pretty damn happy about it. 2 hours of time spent (Odin included) with nice drops and Odin specific items as well whereas I could be sitting in DA for 3 hours for one day and not even claim something sounds pretty good to me.

Einherjar was not some magical fix for everyone wanting king gear. It was simply another option for people who already did endgame to get more gear than they were already getting. It's too difficult for people who didn't get involved in endgame prior to einherjar being released. It's also very rarely done outside of preexisting endgame shells, at least on Phoenix.

Maybe, just maybe, he addressed that.

[Kipling]

Maybe, just maybe, he addressed that.

No, not really. Because it allowed people who did Kings because they wanted E bodies to get the fuck out and get their asses to Valgrind instead...... Was fairly sure my point was obvious.

[Yugl]

You responded to the point that Einherjar is not a solution for everyone, especially those without prior EG experience, by suggesting that it let people who were camping kings for E body do Einherjar instead. Do you see the problem?

[Ashira]

Einherjar was not some magical fix for everyone wanting king gear. It was simply another option for people who already did endgame to get more gear than they were already getting. It's too difficult for people who didn't get involved in endgame prior to einherjar being released. It's also very rarely done outside of preexisting endgame shells, at least on Phoenix.

Whereas on Odin, mishmash shells made up of people who didn't do 'standard' endgame, mostly based around a strong LS who did a sort of 'everything but' mentality in the game and recruiting extras, have sprouted up and are very successful.

Or endgame shells who always remained small recruited quite heavily from non-HNM people and are very successful.

Or some shells, like stated above, just left kings. Which goes back to the original point I was making, in that it was a contributing factor to the thinning of camps.

[Kipling]

What Ashira said, I have seen handful of Einherjar shells sprout out from largely inexperienced players from social shells that go on to do Einherjar and do fine at it. It's not hard, those shells usually have more participants than 'End Game' shells anyway.

[Yugl]

I think it's foolish to choose between camping conditions, Einherjar, or lack of players. Any of them are viable reasons for why camps are less packed.

[Evensong]

"You're such a gimp. Why don't you have X, Y, and Z done?" (...)
"What, are you crazy? X, Y, and Z? I'm not redoing that shit ever, even for LS mates. Way too annoying. Now, get X, Y, and Z done and I'll think about not calling you a gimp anymore."

I admit, not everyone has this mentality, but certainly enough do.

^ So very true of those to whom the above applies!
The worst part is for those who were new players or in their mid-levels when Bahamut was closed (like me); they'll always be the "noobs" no matter how far they get ahead in the game. And they don't even know the joys of not being a noob!

[Siniroth]

"You're such a gimp. Why don't you have X, Y, and Z done?"
"Because it's impossible to find someone to do them with, that's why."
"They're so easy you can do them with less than six people in about ten minutes in your sleep. Goddamn gimp."
"So you'll take ten minutes out of your day to help me, then?"
"What, are you crazy? X, Y, and Z? I'm not redoing that shit ever, even for LS mates. Way too annoying. Now, get X, Y, and Z done and I'll think about not calling you a gimp anymore."

I admit, not everyone has this mentality, but certainly enough do.

Oh god, I'm guilty of the first half of the last line, but I never call anyone gimp for it, there just happens to be some things I won't touch cause I despised them the first time, some CoP things are included in those, and I will never fault anyone for not helping me if I get a second character and need to complete those things and need assistance. (Pot battle in grand palace sup)

[Ashira]

I think it's foolish to choose between camping conditions, Einherjar, or lack of players. Any of them are viable reasons for why camps are less packed.

I did say "contributed to," not that it was more correct than the other assumption. I think it probably carried slightly more weight, though, because it would be the catalyst in underlining the annoying aspects of competition camps since the items are readily available elsewhere.

[Yugl]

I was actually referring to your response to Dubers in which you used "Or" instead of "And", which suggests attention to only one point rather than both. Either way, it doesn't matter since we both agree (Or don't agree?) that there are various reasons for why there may be less players camping kings.

[Demosthenes11]

Einherjar was not some magical fix for everyone wanting king gear. It was simply another option for people who already did endgame to get more gear than they were already getting. It's too difficult for people who didn't get involved in endgame prior to einherjar being released. It's also very rarely done outside of preexisting endgame shells, at least on Phoenix.

I'm confused what your point is here. einherjar fails because you can't lowman it with gimps? outside of not adding dring and ridill to the pool, ein is the best thing SE has done in the last 4 years

[Yugl]

I'm confused what your point is here. einherjar fails because you can't lowman it with gimps? outside of not adding dring and ridill to the pool, ein is the best thing SE has done in the last 4 years

Depends on if he's responding in an on-topic or off-topic manner.

On-Topic interpretation: People were arguing over whether camping conditions, Einherjar, or lack of players was responsible for reduced camp sizes. If you look at the second sentence, he suggests that camping Kings and Einherjar generally aren't mutually exclusive activities; hence, it wouldn't be solely responsible for the reduced amount of players at king camps.

Off-Topic interpretation: If Einherjar were a solution for everyone, then it wouldn't be catered towards those the EG population. I agree with this opinion since successful Einherjar shells are typically run by those with EG experience or an EG LS itself (Though members may be borrowed). However, that last point will vary from server to server. Overall, when you look at it, those claiming Kings will probably do Einherjar as well do enhance their item acquisition. Those who were in EG and maybe had difficulty camping kings will benefit even more so. The rest, for whatever specific reason (Recruiting decent members, member's gear, member's competence), will not benefit from Einherjar. Thus, not everyone wanting kings gear benefits from Einherjar.

[Demosthenes11]

that's like saying "not everyone that wants money will get a job"
you get endgame gear from doing endgame

tough concept I know

[Yugl]

that's like saying "not everyone that wants money will get a job"
you get endgame gear from doing endgame

tough concept I know

Bad analogy aside, I think it's ignorant for you to assume that the only type of people without access to Einherjar's benefits are those without EG experience. People that tend to keep their LSs small (Or maybe those who stopped doing extensive EG) must recruit, and if they cannot, they have to join another Einherjar shell that will accept all their members. If neither are available to them for some reason (Time conflicts, Not enough good people to recruit from, and so forth), then they simply cannot benefit from Einherjar.

[Khajit]

that's like saying "not everyone that wants money will get a job"
you get endgame gear from doing endgame

tough concept I know

Robbery? scamming? Stocks? loans? Counterfeiting? Begging?

[Kipling]

that's like saying "not everyone that wants money will get a job"
you get endgame gear from doing endgame

tough concept I know

rofl, exactly.

[Demosthenes11]

Bad analogy aside, I think it's ignorant for you to assume that the only type of people without access to Einherjar's benefits are those without EG experience. People that tend to keep their LSs small (Or maybe those who stopped doing extensive EG) must recruit, and if they cannot, they have to join another Einherjar shell that will accept all their members. If neither are available to them for some reason (Time conflicts, Not enough good people to recruit from, and so forth), then they simply cannot benefit from Einherjar.

do you play ffxi? the devs didnt make this game a game for small groups of people. if you don't like that you can't do it all with 6, play a different game. it's obviously not for you. I'll change what I said even -
you get large-man event gear from doing large-man events

tough to understand, i know