Bard: Chr vs Skill vs Macc?

[urat]

S I've been searching around as my bard is scaling its levels, and I'm getting kind of confused, as though many guides hint at that a combination of chr and singing skill + instrument skill affect your macc, I am drawing a blank on how much.

For the most part I've been assuming that roughly macc of songs is based on a similar system to macc of a black mages spells through int/skill, but bard's macc is a combination of two different skills...

Also, what other key differences are their between string and wind? I see often that guides generally recommend wind over strings because there is more wind skill gear aviaible? I'm not quite sure?

Also apparantly string instruments have logner range? How much is this? A noticable amount?

[cdgreg]

did a quick search since I've seen a lot about this before. Start here:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/69087-bard-macc.html

and there's some links to Kaeko stuff and other whatnots inside. I didn't read it but may be some useful stuff there to get you started,

[dejet]

It really comes down to the amount of skill is the big thing. Also for the most part wind skill items are for attack/acc so that is a big one too. Our relic is a horn and so on. Strings only real reason I have found is for sleeps if you can get the gear your sleeps are a tad better(I think anyways)

[Skjie]

Also, what other key differences are their between string and wind? I see often that guides generally recommend wind over strings because there is more wind skill gear aviaible? I'm not quite sure?

Also apparantly string instruments have logner range? How much is this? A noticable amount?

The main reason is that more wind instruments have higher bonuses for songs so you are more likely to use wind skill gear. There are few string instruments that are worth using, so less people gear for it.

Also, string instruments have an expanding range with skill, I believe that it caps around 20 yalms, while wind instruments are always 10. The main reason to have a string set is for Horde Lullaby, but honestly I prefer to use Mary's Horn anyway for the extended time.

[jimbobsonofgod]

The main reason to have a string set is for Horde Lullaby, but honestly I prefer to use Mary's Horn anyway for the extended time.

WOW

Nursemaid's Harp
(String Instrument) All Races
"Lullaby" +2
Lv. 60 BRD

Mary's Horn Rare
(Wind Instr.) All Races
Lullaby +1
Lv. 14 BRD

Lullaby base duration is 30 seconds. Each +1 given from an instrument adds +3 seconds to base duration

= FAIL SKJIE FUCKING FAIL

[fishstix]

I thought that the +2 lullaby from the nursemaid's harp is a longer duration than the +1 from mary's horn, however the horn would have a higher m.acc (I used horn exclusively also though, with haste/-song cast time gear so aoe range isn't much of an issue). You pretty much want to use the instrument with the highest +song attribute and those are mostly wind anyways, which is why people would use those over string. There's only Threnody and Lullaby that I can think of.

As for CHR, there's a base number that you should try and hit, something like 110 or 120? idk it's been a while. If you're still leveling up, I wouldn't worry about any of this until you're 75. I wouldn't be worried about the max casting distance of the song either. If you're merit pulling and really need those extra seconds from pulling, should probably use something like a lamiabane anyways, 24.whatever distance

[urat]

So that's why I see people pulling with that harp? It has extended range?

Ive seen a few higher up bard pulling with that and thought they were just uber gimp.

[pchan]

Noone has tested bard's mac to my knowledge, the only assumption would be the relation CHR to magic accuracy is similar to INT/MND.

[Duber]

So that's why I see people pulling with that harp? It has extended range?

Ive seen a few higher up bard pulling with that and thought they were just uber gimp.

Probably they were because I believe enfeebling songs have a set range, skill on string only affects range of buffs I think.

String is mainly used for horde lullaby with a wider range and for ballad on a mage party for the same reason.

[Lahan]

WOW

Nursemaid's Harp
(String Instrument) All Races
"Lullaby" +2
Lv. 60 BRD

Mary's Horn Rare
(Wind Instr.) All Races
Lullaby +1
Lv. 14 BRD

Lullaby base duration is 30 seconds. Each +1 given from an instrument adds +3 seconds to base duration

= FAIL SKJIE FUCKING FAIL

No the horn is more accurate than the harp. I am trying to find the huge argument / test they did. I always used nursemaid too but the horn lands sleeps more.


I can not find it I swear it was on BG. It was one of those question threads that turned into a flame war as usual and someone had testing stats they posted the Horn was more accurate is what it all came down too. They are right though, if the harp lands, it is +1 over mary's.

[Bakthi]

Wind instruments are inherently more accurate than string instruments, despite whatever other stats may be on them. Yes, Mary's Horn will land Lullaby more reliably than Nursemaid's Harp; you will notice this even without parsing it. It can still be worth keeping the harp around to cover a larger area, but you shouldn't have any doubts about your ability to sleep those mobs; missing half the sleeps on a higher number of mobs is, obviously, not an improvement.

If you do land sleep with the harp, yes, it will be slightly longer.

Most BRDs go for 110-120 CHR and put the rest into skill/m.acc, but this isn't really a result of any testing. It's just a number many BRDs have eyeballed to work well over a long period of time.

[Viq]

No the horn is more accurate than the harp.

Except for the part where the guy Jim responded to said that he uses Horn for extended duration over Harp.

[jimbobsonofgod]

To poster three posts above this one

The main reason to have a string set is for Horde Lullaby, but honestly I prefer to use Mary's Horn anyway for the extended time.

Clearly You both missed the part where skjie wasn't talking about using Horn for ACCURACY
He was using the horn to extend the DURATION of lullaby. Which is clearly better with the HARP, not the HORN.

To the poster two posts above this one.
Most bards who need the ability to sleep a lot of mobs successfully with a harp usually have the gear to back it up. Only time I would use a horn to sleep these days would be @ Bird camp.

And damn it beaten by Viq

[Lahan]

I do not think we missed that, we are more trying to say go with just a +1 and have more of a chance to LAND the sleep over a +2 that has less of a chance of landing.


I only use a harp for Paeon, Minne, and Thernody. The only ones that are buffs and harps.
I take that back in dyna I'll use a harp for ballads for the extra range when blm are scattering like roaches...

[Viq]

I do not think we missed that, we are more trying to say go with just a +1 and have more of a chance to LAND the sleep over a +2 that has less of a chance of landing.

Apollo's/Light/Harp/empty
AF2/String Torque/Musical/String Earring
Osode/AF+1/Balrahn's/Omega's
Jester's+1/Gleeman's/AF2/Goliard

Not even close to the best gear around, and a total of about 12k spent on String specific pieces. I've never had a probably reliably landing Lullaby with Harp, so I'll take the extra couple of seconds it gives.

[Asmoranomar]

I've been searching around as my bard is scaling its levels, and I'm getting kind of confused, as though many guides hint at that a combination of chr and singing skill + instrument skill affect your macc, I am drawing a blank on how much.

For the most part I've been assuming that roughly macc of songs is based on a similar system to macc of a black mages spells through int/skill, but bard's macc is a combination of two different skills...

There really hasn't been any solid testing regarding magic accuracy for BRD. Currently there is no reason to believe magic accuracy works any different than say, INT vs Skill vs MACC for BLM or RDM. Until tests have been performed that shows any significant difference, its best to assume magic accuracy is performed the same for all jobs. Sing+Instrument skill are summed together during magic accuracy calculations (hince the reason why songs are either easy or impossible to land).

Also, there is no tested difference in magical accuracy between sing, wind and string. AFAIK there has been no solid tests to pit String vs Wind on equal grounds. The biggest reason why everyone 'assumes' wind is stronger is because wind gear is more readily available, and most songs best instrument is wind based.

At the very least, in the event that I may have missed any significant testing on String vs Wind, String is not 'horribly' inaccurate as most people make it out to be, provided you have the appropriate gear for it (go go disclaimer).

Also, what other key differences are their between string and wind? I see often that guides generally recommend wind over strings because there is more wind skill gear aviaible? I'm not quite sure?

It's up to the individual BRD to determine if it is worth it . If your already the type of BRD who carries all his instruments, creating a separate string build (for buff and debuffs) can be taxing on inventory space. It's also very dependent on the usual role for the BRD (ie: some linkshells don't like BRD to lullaby during events). Other reasons I've covered above.

Also apparantly string instruments have logner range? How much is this? A noticable amount?

All buffs range can be extended with string skill. Most songs will start out with a range of 10' (same as wind) at the level you get them and will go up gradually (up to 20') as your string skill rises. Because of this, your lower level songs will be easier to 'cap' range on than your higher level songs. There probably is a pattern, but its difficult to test - especially since most BRD's don't make use of this feature. For now, each song is different - Chocobo Mazurka requires a lot of skill just to increase its range by 1', while other songs is easier.

The best use of string's range enhancing capabilities is when your casting ballads in a BLM party. Unless you have G.Horn or Storm Fife in salvage, there's no reason not to use it (in that situation). It can also be useful during events where mobs are kited, such as Kirin, where range can make a difference between landing a buff and having none on at all.

Of course, all sounds good in theory until put into practice...
...try and see for yourself.

Edit: forgot to mention. Be somewhat smart about it. For example (since lullaby is hot topic) - Usually when your casting Horde Lullaby, you want to sleep a group of mobs. Use Nursemaid's Harp then, as it gives extra range. It's not about the extra 3 seconds of sleep, its about hitting the mobs you need. Likewise - if your casting Foe Lullaby, and you have a better wind build, use Mary's Horn. The +1/+2 benefits are negligible over the range Harp gives over Wind.

[jimbobsonofgod]

I do not think we missed that, we are more trying to say go with just a +1 and have more of a chance to LAND the sleep over a +2 that has less of a chance of landing.

That was never the issue, the issue was it wasted he was using horn for extended duration not for accuracy. We all know horn is more accurate but apparently one of us had forgotten that harp > horn for duration. All though you may have realized it, but that's not what was discussed in the following post.

Tl : Dr

Skjie still fails.

And some people still fail at follow up and I agree with Viq no reason to carry 2 sleep instruments when one will do. I mean in this day and age people are having problems sleeping shit on bard. Maybe they should take up Repose I hear its pretty accurate.

[Skjie]

Except for the part where the guy Jim responded to said that he uses Horn for extended duration over Harp.

Not going to lie, I boobooed that one. It's for the accuracy, not duration :X Jimbob just likes to catch me with my pants down.

[TMG]

As a mithra with only 60 base CHR (64 I believe if I'm /WHM) I have a hard time reaching 110-120 CHR without feeling like I'm sacrificing a LOT of skill gear. I have a really hard time landing Elegy on on things like Byakko with about 106 CHR. I'm wondering if I should try stacking more CHR and less skill or if more magic accuracy would help. I don't have time for Einherjar, and Aht Urhgan missions are in the works. I've been augmenting Nereid rings hoping for a magic accuracy augment but the best I've gotten is CHR+1. Any BRDs that can reliably land Elegy on gods care to share their gear sets? All the skill doesn't seem to do jack when it comes to Kitty, yet I can land Elegy on Kirin most of the time on the first try, never again after that though.

[jimbobsonofgod]

<neck>Lieut. Gorget
<lear>Musical Earring
<rear>Loquac. Earring
<lring>Balrahn's Ring
<back>Bard's Cape
<legs>Marduk's Shalwar
<feet>Goliard Clogs
<waist>Gleeman's Belt
<body>Chl. Jstcorps +1
<hands>Chl. Cuffs +1
<head>Bard's Roundlet
<rring>Omega Ring
<sub>Earth Grip
<main> Terra's Staff

That's when I pull, When I'm not I'll swap in shadow's Coat and Shadow Clogs.

But I NEVER play bard anymore lol.