Bard: Chr vs Skill vs Macc?

[Asmoranomar]

As a mithra with only 60 base CHR (64 I believe if I'm /WHM) I have a hard time reaching 110-120 CHR without feeling like I'm sacrificing a LOT of skill gear. I have a really hard time landing Elegy on on things like Byakko with about 106 CHR. I'm wondering if I should try stacking more CHR and less skill or if more magic accuracy would help. I don't have time for Einherjar, and Aht Urhgan missions are in the works. I've been augmenting Nereid rings hoping for a magic accuracy augment but the best I've gotten is CHR+1. Any BRDs that can reliably land Elegy on gods care to share their gear sets? All the skill doesn't seem to do jack when it comes to Kitty, yet I can land Elegy on Kirin most of the time on the first try, never again after that though.

As I stated before, some mobs will be easy to land debuffs on, while others will be tough as nails. Byakko is one of those that is tough as nails. It won't matter how much CHR, MACC or Skill you have, the issue is the level difference between you and the mob. The only thing that will make any significant difference is having HQ staves.

122 CHR, 527 Skill, MACC+7 /w HQ staves, and I can go multiple Byakkos without landing elegy on some days. While on others I can land almost every cast. Kirin isn't any exception either - Instead, you should be asking yourself why your casting Elegy on a mob that TP spams. Elegy will do nothing, cast Threnodies for your BLMs instead.

[Antithesis]

Nursemaid's Harp is invaluable. Anyone who says otherwise does not know how to play bard.

[Bakthi]

If anyone is "easily" landing Lullaby on gears in Salvage while half naked and/or with CHR locked, I'd love to know how. I don't use Nursemaid's much anymore, but then...I don't use BRD much anymore. Thankfully.

Back when I was meriting in sky (yeahhhhhhh), it was easy to tell the difference between Nursemaid's and Mary's. With my gear now, it would probably be different, but I can't even remember the last time I wanted a bigger AoE on Horde Lullaby (Salvage/Limbus). I'm sure it's useful for Einherjar and at least city Dynamis, though.

[TMG]

I cast it on Kirin purely to see if I CAN land it. I have read multiple posts on here from bards who claim Byakko is easy to land Elegy on (low man strats, etc.). Maybe they failed to mention it's easy if you're using Elemental Seal, but I have definitely heard that it's not that hard to do. Thought maybe I was just doing something wrong.

[Asmoranomar]

With my gear now, it would probably be different, but I can't even remember the last time I wanted a bigger AoE on Horde Lullaby (Salvage/Limbus). I'm sure it's useful for Einherjar and at least city Dynamis, though.

It just depends on your LS. Our LS has always been short on BLM, we have one good dedicated one and that's about it. The majority of sleeping duties has fallen between the two of us. We both track sleep timers, so its actually very easy for the two of us to back each other up in the event something goes wrong. In this case, any event that requires multiple sleeps (intentional or not) I get the full benefit from harp range.

Contrast this to another linkshell I've been - Used to do Dynamis in a shell that had enough BLM for a full alliance. We used to sleep-nuke everything. BRD's trying to sleep was a big no-no and could ruin things bad for squishy BLMs who pretty much *tanked* the entire run.

I cast it on Kirin purely to see if I CAN land it. I have read multiple posts on here from bards who claim Byakko is easy to land Elegy on (low man strats, etc.).

Byakko has never been 'easy' to elegy. Maybe you misunderstood the context? Perhaps they meant the easiest sky god to elegy (ie: still hard, but easier than the rest)? I doubt this too though, I don't find him any easier/harder than the others.

Also - Seeing if you can land Elegy on Kirin is not a big deal. You can't say anything like "I landed Elegy on Kirin, so I should be able to land it on XXX". And it doesn't really prove anything, a lucky naked BRD with HQ staves could land Elegy on Kirin 100%. Unless you plan to cast Elegy thousands of times to determine an accurate resist rate on Elegy, the claim "I can get it to land once/twice/etc" has no actual weight.

Ask yourself this:
So you can land Elegy on Kirin. So what? Why? What is it your really trying to show by doing so? Is it actually helpful for determining anything significant?

[Bakthi]

It just depends on your LS. Our LS has always been short on BLM, we have one good dedicated one and that's about it. The majority of sleeping duties has fallen between the two of us. We both track sleep timers, so its actually very easy for the two of us to back each other up in the event something goes wrong. In this case, any event that requires multiple sleeps (intentional or not) I get the full benefit from harp range.

Contrast this to another linkshell I've been - Used to do Dynamis in a shell that had enough BLM for a full alliance. We used to sleep-nuke everything. BRD's trying to sleep was a big no-no and could ruin things bad for squishy BLMs who pretty much *tanked* the entire run.

I can see that. If we only have 2 BLMs for Dynamis/Einherjar, we think "Oh man, we're low on BLMs." Actually, I go BLM to almost every Dynamis these days. We generally have 3-5, so it's easy enough to Sleepga and then have people Sleep II/Repose individual targets. BRDs still help sleep, of course, and we certainly don't mind if one is on point enough to hit the initial sleep. Especially in Tavnazia, where a lot of pulls have only 3 mobs.

[Rainewaters]

I'm curious about something though...if you had access to ANY gear, would you rather have marduk body, or shadow body for debuffing? I'm in a situation where I can't decide between the two. I'm leaning towards shadow though, but then again..isn't +chr the main stat of brd? Or does +10 macc override that rule? Any thoughts?

[TMG]

Why? Because I'm a BRD and I'm bored off my ass between songs and cures. It's just for pure entertainment, my other BRD and I like to compete to see who gets it to land first. My question wasn't about Kirin, I was asking if any other BRDs were able to reliably land on Byakko and with what kind of gear.

[jimbobsonofgod]

I'm curious about something though...if you had access to ANY gear, would you rather have marduk body, or shadow body for debuffing? I'm in a situation where I can't decide between the two. I'm leaning towards shadow though, but then again..isn't +chr the main stat of brd? Or does +10 macc override that rule? Any thoughts?

Since CHR doesn't affect potency i'd say a general rule of thumb is if you can break the time honored tradition of 120 CHR without the body slot go with Shadow coat.

or

Do both wear marduks til you get resisted then try throwing on shadow coat to see if helps.

But honestly I'd have to also say it would really depend on your other slots.

"[InB4 words like "situational" "diminishing returns on (CHR,MACC,Singing,String,Wind), and what does your Heart tell you"]"

[Rainewaters]

Since CHR doesn't affect potency i'd say a general rule of thumb is if you can break the time honored tradition of 120 CHR without the body slot go with Shadow coat.

or

Do both wear marduks til you get resisted then try throwing on shadow coat to see if helps.

But honestly I'd have to also say it would really depend on your other slots.

"[InB4 words like "situational" "diminishing returns on (CHR,MACC,Singing,String,Wind), and what does your Heart tell you"]"

Thing is, i get resisted like... 2% of the time. HNM and gods about 10%.
So it's really a matter of, which one is better for endgame. cause duh i'm sticking to manteel for merit pts.

[Lovex]

I'm curious about something though...if you had access to ANY gear, would you rather have marduk body, or shadow body for debuffing? I'm in a situation where I can't decide between the two. I'm leaning towards shadow though, but then again..isn't +chr the main stat of brd? Or does +10 macc override that rule? Any thoughts?

Go with shadow coat.

Its simply a flawless a piece.

I love my marduk body but my CHR is very comforble and even if it
wasnt, I wouldnt replace shadow with marduk for debuffs.

There are others slots you can replace with chr+ that dont take away so much magic acc.

Shadow coat is the best possible debuff body for any BRD. If you lack the chr
switch out neried/oracles/HQ staff/astute cape in favor of heavens/goliard/alkalurops/jesters+1.


If your merited well in chr/skill you shouldnt need to switch all of those
out tho.

I rarely ever get resisted anymore and my magic acc for my brd is as high
as a brd can possibly get it with my setups of chr/skill but I have Gjallarhorn as well.


As said, once you reach a certain point in your CHR, stack on the skill/macc gear.

Be careful though, you stack on too much skill+ gears and your chr is gimp
you will notice resists more frequently. A comfortable mix of chr and skill works great.


Heres what I use for debuffing Tiamat with Elegy/Ltng Threnody:

Main: Alkalurops.
Sub: Earth Grip
Range: Gjallarhorn
Head: Marduk's Tiara
Neck: Piper's Torque
Ear1 & 2: Musical Earring+Singing Earring
Body: Shadow Coat
Hands: Choral Cuffs +1
Ring1 & 2: Neried Ring+Omega Ring
Back: Jester's Cape +1
Waste: Gleemans Belt
Legs: Marduk's Shalwar
Feet: Oracles Pigaches

Now with feet & Ring1, I might switch out for Goliard or Heavens if Im having
resist issues but thats pretty random. Mostly on SW mobs like KA or Serket, whos resist
rates can be so damn random.

I only have 2 chr merits and Im 8/8 sing/wind.

I believe my chr sits at 71+58(with shadow coat on) and can get as much as 560-566(Full Sing/Wind skill+ Setup),
in combined singing and wind instrument skill. However, when trying to access that much skill, I'll lose
CHR on other slots as well, so My CHR is penalized but the only time you need anywhere near that much
skill is when you're casting Victory March.


A good setup for an average or even overaverge brd would be using things
errant body(better than minstrels for most part unless ur casting V.march)
and debuffs in neried rather than chr+ring. If ur using errant, I say use wind torque/nereieds.

If ur debuffing in mintrils coat. ur gonna wanna be using a pipers torque, chr+ ring etc.

For head Gear go with Demon Helm until you can pick up a Bard roundlet/Marduk tiara.

Omega ring is absolutley stunning and should use that for all debuffs.

Gleemans you will probably be using forever as a BRD. Unless they add
waste gear with skill or something with more CHR or magic acc, this is what
you want to be getting.

Shiare feet are easy to get, thats what I first used as a BRD, that and rostrum pumps.
Before moving up to oracles and goliard. I use Oracles much more than Goliard.
Oracles is also much eaiser to obtain.

Leg/Hand gear is easy but as said, depends what body/neck/rings ur using.
I wouldnt suggest using anything other than choral/choral+1 cuffs. Goliard
is ok but if you can get goliard, u should have ur af done.


Now legs, marduk aside, it depends on ur setup. Choral cannions+1 is usually
the way to go but if u dont have the +1 itts a fight between the NQ choral, Shiar legs
and Errant. If ur using errant body, go with the NQ legs but if u have chr issues
go with shiar. Tbh, idk why anyone would use errant legs but to each their own.


As for instruments, dont bother with string instruments that debuff a mob.
Urat, if you see a brd using a.. Nursemaids harp, kindly tell them to drop
that piece of trash and go camp stray mary or buy marys horn off ah.

Any brd using nursemaids who has been told marys is much superior to it, is not
a brd, thats a dumbass. I used nursemaids back in the day and I remember the day
I decided to finally pick up a Marys Horn.

I was in shock at the difference between how often my lullaby stuck to how
often it didnt, using Nursemaids.

If u have anymore questions, send me PM Urat and good luck!^.^


BRD is not a complicated job or a competitive job, like blm or rdm can be.
Unlike RDM enfeebles, BRD songs can overwrite.


You dont need absolute gear to be a good BRD. BRD is very useful and works great
with simple gears you can get simply on AH/through mini quests.

It all comes down to what type of brd you want to be in the game.

Amerie of Quetz

[Midnightjade]

<rear>Loquac. Earring
<back>Bard's Cape

No offense, but I'm guessing that must be in a meripo. I don't see the point of either of those pieces in a full-on debuff setup. Back is ok but Jester's +1 is better and it's not expensive.

I wouldn't normally say anything, but I'm going to make an exception in this case since you spent 3 posts dissing a guy for a typo.

[jimbobsonofgod]

No offense, but I'm guessing that must be in a meripo. I don't see the point of either of those pieces in a full-on debuff setup.

That's when I pull

HI


It was in the post.

Cause when the hell else is a bard gonna pull.

And mantle is still bard cape cause
1) i Never play bard, and even what I used to do on bard, my gear is more the sufficient.
2) +1 inventory > +3 CHR.
3) I'm sitting on Amps when I get done my new 75 I'll blow some amps on delta earring.

[Midnightjade]

HI

HI2U2

Actually, the point of my post wasn't to nitpick your gear. It was to remind you to be nicer to your fellow board members, 'cause honestly you came across like a bitch this entire thread. I guess you didn't get it.

[barber2006]

I wanted brd gear to matter for a long time. Wasted 12M on marduk body. Had shadow feet as my primary odin lot. Had marduk set as my prime salvage set (and missed getting a LOT of good gear in the process). Merited singing/wind over enfeebling even though I had other mage jobs. Etc etc etc. Had perfect skill gear. Perfect standing gear. Perfect debuff gear. Perfect haste/-casting time gear. But eventually every brd must come face to face with the unpleasant reality that brd gear just does not make as much of a difference as gear for other jobs.


I have posted before about pulling chain 200 partys with nothing but a terra staff and crafting gear without a single elegy resist. People claimed B.S. before they saw the logs. I was stupefied when I realized my debuff rate on sky gods was roughly the same with the most elite gear bard could get as it was when I wore a vermillion cloak. I spent years getting gear for my blm, nin, rng, and cor and there was a glorious progression. I spent years getting gear for my brd and it cannot do one single thing noticeably better than it could in 2005 (unless you count .000001 haste on marches 'better').

What do you need for bard? HQ staves. A standing set. Enough gear to activate minstrel's ring. blm, whm, and nin at 37. Everything else gives such a negligible increase that its primary purpose is so you don't look like the jobs you are buffing (that get gear that actually heavily increases their effectiveness) are 2-boxing you at events.

[Bakthi]

Cause when the hell else is a bard gonna pull.

That's half the reason I still go BRD to Limbus and Salvage: as the puller, I control the flow of the run. We used to have our BRDs pull in Einherjar, too, before we started constantly rotating them and they became too busy. Dynamis has never been pulled by BRDs for us, that much is true. Every other event is not really "pulled".

I wanted brd gear to matter for a long time. Wasted 12M on marduk body. Had shadow feet as my primary odin lot. Had marduk set as my prime salvage set (and missed getting a LOT of good gear in the process). Merited singing/wind over enfeebling even though I had other mage jobs. Etc etc etc. Had perfect skill gear. Perfect standing gear. Perfect debuff gear. Perfect haste/-casting time gear. But eventually every brd must come face to face with the unpleasant reality that brd gear just does not make as much of a difference as gear for other jobs.


I have posted before about pulling chain 200 partys with nothing but a terra staff and crafting gear without a single elegy resist. People claimed B.S. before they saw the logs. I was stupefied when I realized my debuff rate on sky gods was roughly the same with the most elite gear bard could get as it was when I wore a vermillion cloak. I spent years getting gear for my blm, nin, rng, and cor and there was a glorious progression. I spent years getting gear for my brd and it cannot do one single thing noticeably better than it could in 2005 (unless you count .000001 haste on marches 'better').

What do you need for bard? HQ staves. A standing set. Enough gear to activate minstrel's ring. blm, whm, and nin at 37. Everything else gives such a negligible increase that its primary purpose is so you don't look like the jobs you are buffing (that get gear that actually heavily increases their effectiveness) are 2-boxing you at events.

I so wish I didn't agree with this. I have everything for BRD except horn and a -songcast dagger, and...Marduk body is pretty, but half the time I wish I could cash it in for Skadi.

[Skjie]

I wouldn't normally say anything, but I'm going to make an exception in this case since you spent 3 posts dissing a guy for a typo.

Nah, for all the shit I put him through, I deserved that one.

[Buttons]

Interesting thread. Finally some BRD info in one spot. I knew a lot of this stuff already by scavenging through old BG, KI and Alla threads but to see it confirmed helps a lot.
My BRD is lv60 now and I was wondering about a few things which got cleared up now. Thanks ^^

[Rainewaters]

I'm going to be lazy and copy+paste from spellcast.
for debuff gear I use:
<head>Bard's Roundlet</head>
<body>Sha'ir Manteel</body>
<neck>Wind torque</neck>
<hands>Choral cuffs +1</hands>
<back>Jester's cape +1</back>
<waist>Gleeman's belt</waist>
<legs>Bard's cannions</legs>
<feet>Oracles pigaches</feet>
<lring>Omega ring</lring>
<rring>Balrahn's ring</rring>
<lear>Musical earring</lear>
<rear>Wind earring</rear>

More +chr and +macc than my buffs, which i use:

<head>Bard's Roundlet</head>
<body>Sha'ir Manteel</body>
<neck>Wind torque</neck>
<hands>Bard's Cuffs</hands>
<back>Astute cape</back>
<waist>Speed belt</waist>
<legs>Chl. Cannions +1</legs>
<feet>Oracle's Pigaches</feet>
<lring>Nereid Ring</lring>
<rring>Nereid Ring</rring>
<lear>Musical earring</lear>
<rear>Wind Earring</rear>


Fir debuffs i'de use goli feet if THEY EVER FREAKING droped...or shadow feet if they ever ever drop again...
But yeah, skill+chr isn't much of an issue. I'm 4/8 wind merits, and can't put in anymore due to anymore being pointless, nor would i like to demerit elemental from my blm. +CHR merit is a waste imo. it's just a matter of which is truly better, shadow body...or marduk body? Based on what's being said, it looks like shadow body is the all out winner.

[barber2006]

it's just a matter of which is truly better, shadow body...or marduk body? Based on what's being said, it looks like shadow body is the all out winner.

Technically 10 Macc will beat 12 Chr (if the debuff formula is similar to enfeebling magic, which although assumed has never been tested) but I can guarantee it won't make a difference. Nor will going from osode/errant to shadow. You will still be mashing that alt-2 macro for elegy at byakko 10 times to get 2 to land. You will still be going /blm to the things you go /blm to. You will still have max success in merit. Etc. Shadow is better for one reason though: Cost.


I'm far from apathetic when it comes to gear. I'll gladly pay the mil for the small upgrade umbra cape gives me for the 2 times I get hit in salvage. I leveled bonecraft on a mule just to make a corsair gun +1 since I could never find one on AH. But brd debuff gear (using wind) just does not make a difference.