FFXI's Golden Age?

[Nameless]

I think it was during the inflation xmas that the game peaked. Simply from a player base standpoint, that's when I think the most ppl played. The game was alot more fun back then with alot of players doing different things. Not alot of players were capped out so there were alot of leveling, doing mission, small quests going on, players helping each other out etc, alot more involved as a community in general. Now a day the game got easier, many are capped out with many 75 jobs, the game becomes too easy for them, driving the lesser players or new players out, resulting in decrease of player base. Player base is everything in this game and what makes the game fun.

Despite the awesome review, I think ToAU is the starting point of the downward spiral simply because the game was driven too much away from the base, things got too easy. As much as we all hate level cap, it actually allows players of the lower lvl to be involved in stuff (key of why CoP was so much fun despite the difficulty). And level sync really killed this game. It is a welcome addition to many but I personally enjoy lvling up the old school way. Experiencing each level, adjusting gears accordingly, learning how to use different JA, getting the feel of the job etc while meeting new ppl. Alot of the basic fun are gone. Everything is end game end game end game now, which again, drives new players and some old players away.

[Rida]

The day I left Faildemonium.

COME BACK AND HAS FUN WIV ME!!!

[Mojo]

I think it really depends on how you're evaluating the game. It was most exciting for me during the CoP era because the game wasn't completely figured out yet and events were still difficult. ToAU had the best content by far. The events to get gear were actually somewhat fun and reasonable. The HNM were strong although the spawning conditions were outrageous. The difficulty was good too (if you think they were too easy... imagine early CoP era players trying to defeat Khimaira...)

[Spider-Dan]

Now a day the game got easier, many are capped out with many 75 jobs, the game becomes too easy for them, driving the lesser players or new players out, resulting in decrease of player base. Player base is everything in this game and what makes the game fun.

Despite the awesome review, I think ToAU is the starting point of the downward spiral simply because the game was driven too much away from the base, things got too easy. As much as we all hate level cap, it actually allows players of the lower lvl to be involved in stuff (key of why CoP was so much fun despite the difficulty). And level sync really killed this game. It is a welcome addition to many but I personally enjoy lvling up the old school way. Experiencing each level, adjusting gears accordingly, learning how to use different JA, getting the feel of the job etc while meeting new ppl. Alot of the basic fun are gone. Everything is end game end game end game now, which again, drives new players and some old players away.

http://venomweb.150m.com/ffxi/mmogchart_01.png

Of all the criticisms to level at TAU, "it drove away the players" is the worst one to make.

[Mojo]

Any point after ToAU is assumed on that data plot, although I will agree that the population decline began during the CoP era.

[Spider-Dan]

Any point after ToAU is assumed on that data plot, although I will agree that the population decline began during the CoP era.

Hard to believe, given that other MMOs' data plots simply stop when they have no more data (see: EQ, EQ2).

The fact that there are 5 more data points on that chart after TAU means that they would have to be fabricating data, in which case, how can we know TAU's release is the last legitimate data point?

[Mayareira]

By late 2005 I was convinced that the game was dying for sure, 2500-3500~ /sea's were replaced by very low numbers like 1000-1500~. Like I said above, the game was sinking without a trace. Players were fed up with almost everything.

Then ToAU came and the numbers bounced up once again. But unlike regular expansion sparks it actually stabilized at an acceptable level of population and ended up extending the games lifespan for a good 3 years.

"ToAU drove people away from the game" is, like mentioned above the most unreasonable claim one can make about the expansion.

And level sync really killed this game. It is a welcome addition to many but I personally enjoy lvling up the old school way. Experiencing each level, adjusting gears accordingly, learning how to use different JA, getting the feel of the job etc while meeting new ppl

You mean, not leveling the old school way or simply spend all your day looking fo a "refresher", "healer" or another essential job for a decent party.

If it takes you 5,000 crabs to "learn how to use Warding Circle", then the problem is with you not with the game.

And Mojo is right about the HNM difficulty. Try having your PLD's tank Khimaira "just like the good old days" way. Compared to 2004-2005, player base knows way too much about the game and job mechanics. 2004's star Paladin mentality, or whatever job would end up in gimp thread today.

Hard to believe, given that other MMOs' data plots simply stop when they have no more data (see: EQ, EQ2).

The fact that there are 5 more data points on that chart after TAU means that they would have to be fabricating data, in which case, how can we know TAU's release is the last legitimate data point?

Basing my claims totally on /sea data, I'd say...

2005-2006 - Rapid decline (WoW, frustrating issues I've mentioned in a post above, etc.)
2006-2007 - Expansion spark.
2007-2008 - Stabilization.
2008- - Decline (excluding WoTG spark, which didn't last long).

And AFAIK, those date in the above chart are based on Vana d'iel census.

[Mojo]

Hard to believe, given that other MMOs' data plots simply stop when they have no more data (see: EQ, EQ2).

The fact that there are 5 more data points on that chart after TAU means that they would have to be fabricating data, in which case, how can we know TAU's release is the last legitimate data point?

They are not accurate. They come from interviews or magazines where only a vague "We have around 500,000 subscribers" was given. This information might not have even come from a developer or from a developer who actually knew what the numbers were. I actually asked the guy who gathers these stats, if that helps.

Also, how likely do you think maintaining a constant 500,000 subscribers would be anyways?

[FailureMidgard]

I think it was during the inflation xmas that the game peaked. Simply from a player base standpoint, that's when I think the most ppl played. The game was alot more fun back then with alot of players doing different things. Not alot of players were capped out so there were alot of leveling, doing mission, small quests going on, players helping each other out etc, alot more involved as a community in general. Now a day the game got easier, many are capped out with many 75 jobs, the game becomes too easy for them, driving the lesser players or new players out, resulting in decrease of player base. Player base is everything in this game and what makes the game fun.

Despite the awesome review, I think ToAU is the starting point of the downward spiral simply because the game was driven too much away from the base, things got too easy. As much as we all hate level cap, it actually allows players of the lower lvl to be involved in stuff (key of why CoP was so much fun despite the difficulty). And level sync really killed this game. It is a welcome addition to many but I personally enjoy lvling up the old school way. Experiencing each level, adjusting gears accordingly, learning how to use different JA, getting the feel of the job etc while meeting new ppl. Alot of the basic fun are gone. Everything is end game end game end game now, which again, drives new players and some old players away.

Everyone has their own opinion, but when you talk about killing this game, and then in the next sentence have to say "it is a welcome addition to many", I think you have a problem in your argument.

Level sync is in my opinion, probably the single best change to gameplay that has been added in the last 4 years. Maya may complain about sitting around waiting for a refresher, I'm going to say fuck that, you needed to wait for 6 people to log on (and stay on) in a 2 level band. I'm sorry, but seeking all day is not skill, nor good. You like leveling "the old school way", yet you fail to realize that really, the "new school way" is the exact same. 41>49, what do you really gain? A few jobs gain something at 45, most people don't get shit, and don't change a single thing except gear during those levels. But man, when you hit 49, changing your WS macros to use Jinpu and Penta instead of Enpi and Double really changes the way you play right?

Level sync lets you log on, and make a party almost whenever you want. And when there's no sync for the popular bird camps, you can still pull very good exp at old school camps. What a lot of people don't realize is that the reason they think these old school camps were so bad, was actually the fact you just had subpar parties. You took whatever job was in your range you could get (which was maybe kinda interesting here and there), but past that, you ended up with a 3-4 level gap at times, and maybe only 1 person was at the top level. Meaning everyone else was either taking significant exp penalties, or else was stuck overcamping and having level correction issues.

Availability of content (this includes both leveling, and endgame activities) is very important. Maybe you liked logging on to seek all day, most people just want to play the fucking game.

[Spider-Dan]

They are not accurate. They come from interviews or magazines where only a vague "We have around 500,000 subscribers" was given.

1) This is not remotely the same thing as "assumed." If Squenix says, "we have ~500,000 subscribers," what are you supposed to do to "vet" that? It's not like there's an SEC filing for number of FFXI subscribers.

2) Even if what you say is accurate, why single out TAU's release as the point where the data becomes hearsay? Shouldn't the entire line be "assumed"?

Also, how likely do you think maintaining a constant 500,000 subscribers would be anyways?

If your argument is that FFXI didn't have exactly 500k subscribers, but instead had 501k or 506k or 503k at each of those data points, then fine. It does absolutely nothing to change the discussion, but sure, great point I guess.

P.S. For the record, the 6th (2006), 7th (2007), and 8th (2008) Vana'diel Census all say "500,000+ players" on the first page. So if the chart is wrong, it is wrong in that TAU actually grew the playerbase (after the decline during CoP).

[Mojo]

They are assumed. Square Enix never released solid information on their subscription rates beyond that point in time. The points were simply regurgitated from what was said before (really who is going to check what some media outlet publishes as the subscription rate, which is where the numbers came from.) You can continue to argue about semantics or whatever you like, but you're departing from reality if you accept those numbers as accurate.

[Spider-Dan]

They are assumed. Square Enix never released solid information on their subscription rates beyond that point in time. The points were simply regurgitated from what was said before (really who is going to check what some media outlet publishes as the subscription rate, which is where the numbers came from.) You can continue to argue about semantics or whatever you like, but you're departing from reality if you accept those numbers as accurate.

Vana'diel Census is now a media outlet?

I reiterate: why is it only after TAU's release that the numbers are "assumed?" Where were the "solid numbers" coming from before that?

[Mojo]

I never bothered inquiring about the points before because they actually exhibited traits of real data, so I don't really know where they came from. The census data only accounts for two of those points (the others which were regurgitated,) and again, they're giving a very vague and untrustworthy approximations. I honestly think they just stopped giving out accurate information (maybe because their game was dieing and they didn't want to accelerate that process or maybe out of apathy.) If you're looking to establish some kind of correlation, the data is just not sufficient enough.

[Mojo]

Also, look at the other MMO subscription rates from around that time. Do you think FFXI is going to be some magical exception and constantly maintain a very steady playerbase?

[Spider-Dan]

If your argument is that the pre-TAU numbers are more valid solely because they are more varied, that's not a very convincing argument.

If you're going to throw the post-TAU numbers out because they aren't independently corroborated, then you'll need to independently corroborate the pre-TAU numbers, or they should logically be thrown out, too.

Whether or not I think it's "likely" that FFXI maintained the same playerbase is irrelevant (and essentially pointless nitpicking, since "over 500k" works just fine for the point being made); I'm asking for consistency in evaluation.

[Mizango]

COME BACK AND HAS FUN WIV ME!!!

lol you couldn't pay me to come back.

[Nameless]

Everyone has their own opinion, but when you talk about killing this game, and then in the next sentence have to say "it is a welcome addition to many", I think you have a problem in your argument.

Level sync is in my opinion, probably the single best change to gameplay that has been added in the last 4 years. Maya may complain about sitting around waiting for a refresher, I'm going to say fuck that, you needed to wait for 6 people to log on (and stay on) in a 2 level band. I'm sorry, but seeking all day is not skill, nor good. You like leveling "the old school way", yet you fail to realize that really, the "new school way" is the exact same. 41>49, what do you really gain? A few jobs gain something at 45, most people don't get shit, and don't change a single thing except gear during those levels. But man, when you hit 49, changing your WS macros to use Jinpu and Penta instead of Enpi and Double really changes the way you play right?

Level sync lets you log on, and make a party almost whenever you want. And when there's no sync for the popular bird camps, you can still pull very good exp at old school camps. What a lot of people don't realize is that the reason they think these old school camps were so bad, was actually the fact you just had subpar parties. You took whatever job was in your range you could get (which was maybe kinda interesting here and there), but past that, you ended up with a 3-4 level gap at times, and maybe only 1 person was at the top level. Meaning everyone else was either taking significant exp penalties, or else was stuck overcamping and having level correction issues.

Availability of content (this includes both leveling, and endgame activities) is very important. Maybe you liked logging on to seek all day, most people just want to play the fucking game.

Not sure why you got so offended by my statement. First of all, it is all opinion, and if you actually look at the vote result, it actually agrees with what I was saying. Not a surprise that ToAU era came in second and not first and all downhill after that.

If you think deeper on what I mean, you will get a better sense of my opinion. Yes, level sync makes the game go smoother, allowing you to hop on the game and level right away. It solve the seeking in lower jeuno for hours problem, which many considered a waste of time and it is. However, you fail to understand, the reason you have such problem to start with is from the lack of player base that started to decline long before that. In the peak of this game, there wasn't such problem, at least never for me (maybe I had lower standard in forming a party, I used to think some exp is better than no exp and will form up interesting party). So yes, level sync is a welcome addition to help adjust the problem that was created by losing players, yet IMO such problem never existed during the peak.

As for missing the old school way of leveling, I see nothing wrong with that statement. It was harder, and not all the time you will get the support you want, but adjusting to no support by having everyone doing their job to the fullest does help you in the long run. I enjoy that. There are threads about how gimp some players are now a day, in gear and in knowledge, you think lvling sync to 18 killing worms in qufim until you are 75 help the player gain knowledge in gears? It helps older players to lvl fast without much downside since most knows the game and know how to gear. But for new or less knowledgeable players, taking a long time to 75, experiencing each lvl, buying new gears to suit that level does prepare the player for the future.

When you talk about a game's peak, it is not about certain feature help stop the loss of the player base such as lvl sync, more new content, new end game etc. It is about the path that takes you to that top, things that draws in new players. Lvl sync certain didn't exist when the game was at its peak. Would it have keep the game at its peak for a longer time if it had existed? certainly, but that's not what we are talking about here. You are right that lvl sync did not kill the game or drove players away, my mistake there. What I really meant is that it is really way too late, and it actually makes the game too easy to cap out at this stage when many are close to capping out already. Players that are capped out usually are those that quit, you are speeding that process of capping out when new content are small and slow coming in.

Making the game easier, even in a good way, will shorten the game. The new content has to keep players from capping out. Ever since ToAU, players are capping out faster than the new contents can be implemented. It is good and bad for the game. Good that you get your money worth in a shorter time, bad that you cap out fast and got nothing else to do. It is like a piece of steak, you can decide to eat it fast or slow. I usually like to enjoy it slowly.

You don't need to agree with me. It is just my opinion. I hate lvl sync cuz it is now too easy for players to get to 75. Many are just lvling a job, finish it in 3 weeks, and then move on to another without fulfilling the previous ones. When it takes you longer to lvl, you will treasure it more (doesn't apply to everyone and I know that).

Again, no hard feeling. Just my point of view, not necessarily right.

[Kerberoz]

Before level synch, people joked about grinding the same 3 mob types to 75. After level synch... well...

[richardd]

im a newfag. toau was my fav era. thats when i started to grow into endgame and meet some friends that ill know for the rest of my life that started off of pixels. but i got my 1st 2 75's before it came out! so i put in some work like everyone else! bibiki bay 6k/hr ptys are godlike, wut?!

[Mizango]

Man I remember being pissed back in 2004? When they nerfed the exp to get from 70-75. It was some RIDICULOUS ass exp and I did it dammit. I remember getting in trouble for calling someone out because they were bitching about the 70 exp chain 15 in moon lol.

That was back in the day where Sky and Moon was where you went and there were no other options. 60-70 exp a fight with a 60k tnl was awesome.