Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Kaslo]

Apprently you don't understand the word "example"

Exp pts are hard?.

hard enough to need a WHM to heal a PLD apparently, those birds hit hard according to these guys

[Antithesis]

The effect's potency will gradually increase until the avatar is released, and at its peak, can be expected to reach levels equal to those granted by the corsair's lucky number roll.

For a frame of reference:

Fighter's Roll (Double Attack) Lucky Number Result: 12%
Dancer's Roll (Regen) Lucky Number Result: 11 HP / Tick
Evoker's Roll (Refresh) Lucky Number Result: 3 MP / Tick
Ninja Roll (Evasion) Lucky Number Result: Unkown
Wizard's Roll (Magic Attack) Lucky Number Result: 10 Magic Attack Bonus
Warlock's Roll (Magic Accuracy) Lucky Number Result: Unkown
Rogue's Roll (Critical) Lucky Number Result: 12%

With the exception of Titan and Fenrir, these are probably the most likely results when the effect reaches its peak.

Note: These numbers are from the Corsair's Lucky Number without the corresponding job in the party.

[Arcanesoul]

How does it gimp TP possibilities when it was already a roll of the dice to begin with? You'd think BSTs would be happy being able to...you know, choose the TP move.

Clearly they're going to observe it and determine a more appropriate time down the line, or like they did when SCH was seen as a gimped RDM, adjust it very quickly.

MidnightJade and Isiolia have already covered a lot of the point well, but I want to add my bit too.

It really is a matter of practicality. While Ready gives us some control of the pets TP moves, think about it from a party perspective. If you have the bst in the party it's for DD, and certainly not for one of the enfeebles (no party is going to wait for your pet to generate 100TP + and x charges just so you can pull off evasion down with Panzer which could very well get resisted and lasts no where near as long the Ready timer - Also zoolater hat for pet meditate is not exactly a common drop either - The NM is stingy with everything). This basically brings you back to what MJ said - A pet with poor acc that will choose from a more restricted set of TP moves (note that for each number of charges there isn't a unique TP move and we still don't know how they're grouped). At 75 people try to go for efficiency and slightly less random TP moves on a longer timer is not even a sidestep at getting bst included in events.

Bsts still have the problem that if they want to boost their pets they have to trade off gear from themselves. I really don't think bsts want to use Herders subligar in place of Byakko's Haidate when they're fighting. In my opinion, the bst pays a high price for even attempting to improve their pet skills, since as far as we're aware most pieces need to be worn at all times, rather than at the point of charm or call beast.

I have to wonder, what exactly are SE observing about bst. How many groups actually take a bst in a mixed party when that person has another job. When I'm on bst it's usually only for a KSNM or soloing, and in both cases I rarely use a jug. When pet burns used to be an option for me, I really don't see it being as helpful their either. Mostly you would use cheap jugs to spam since it really is a matter of numbers.
I have to wonder what playstyle even makes good use of this, but I know none of mine do.

[Isiolia]

It does make it efficient as a job in merit pts and exp. it depends what you consider efficient, maybe because of the 10% whm gets back fromm light arts? then again like I said rdm can do the same thing, they have Regen I, the most MP efficient spell.

In my book having MP at the end of the fight is MP efficient I guess you think of it as MP/spell? to me that is not what it is. If that is what you mean then I can see your side a bit more, I just do not view it that way.

also on topic: we someone got into rdm vs whm because we start to say smn might have room in pts more. it went from pld+smn = pld+rdm because of the regen that the blue rat might give. to now rdm vs whm ~_~

It's a combination. In part, yeah, what you get out of each spell. A WHM/SCH with additional cure potency gear (Nobles), Regen merits and gear enhancement, etc, gets more out of the same spells. Under light arts, they spend less to boot, compared to a RDM/WHM.
The other factor is spell library. RDM has a diverse library, but even with /WHM or something, they don't have all the tools a WHM has, especially now. Esuna for instance. In some cases that'll also translate to the WHM needing to do less work, and spend less MP, to do the same job.

That's really how I'm looking at it. RDM isn't efficient, compared to specialists for a task, though it does tend to offset that with MP recovery.
SMN, if anything, is even less efficient though, and slow to boot. IMO, the only way that'll change is if SE allows pacts to be called directly, rather than summon -> pact -> dismiss.

[seiji]

BST update is nigh useless. Doesn't address the real problems the job has, and needlessly gimps jug pet TP possibilities.

- pet tanking purpose by forcing a def buff?
- stop waking every slept mob/ agro pacific mob by avoiding use of aoe?
- any other status effect pet can do?

this update might be useless in HNM scene, but FF is not HNM onry!

for SMN update:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ff.../IfritsBow.png <3

for all bitching about SMN main healing PLD XP PT: 4mp/tic + noctoshield (xp mobs dont hit very hard+ lower enmity lost due to lower dmg taken) might not be better than true healer but might do very well

no ACC buff

new avatar's favor?

[Vendeen]

God damnit, avatars already bring my fps down to 5...now SMNs are actually going to be used at events, and are going to have avatars out all the time.

/wrists

[Spira]

God damnit, avatars already bring my fps down to 5...now SMNs are actually going to be used at events, and are going to have avatars out all the time.

/wrists

get a new PC ffs

[Spira]

- pet tanking purpose by forcing a def buff?
- stop waking every slept mob/ agro pacific mob by avoiding use of aoe?
- any other status effect pet can do?

Its still too slow. Put it in perspective.

CC lasts 30min.

If you're going to Ready Scissor Guard consistently to reduce dmg (lol if u ready metallic body), and we assume 2 charges used

thats only 7 times u can use a TP move.. in 30min..

If 3 charges, only 4 times in 30minutes.

See how ridiculous that is?

we'd seriously be getting our hopes up if we think something like that is 1charge...
and even then, 14 times used in 30min, provided you have 100%TP by every 2nd minute.

The way things are looking with Ready, its only useful if the TP move you want to pick happens to be a 1 charge one already - and the fact that you can make sure its not an AoE.

[dejet]

get a new PC ffs

My laptop sucks and it runs FFXI and aion just fine.. after my PC blew up(getting a new one in a few days) for the last 3 months Iv been playing on my laptop just fine lol.

Unless your using a 7 year old PC I do not understand how people lag all that much with stuff turned down, I keep FPS of 25+ anywhere in the game with drawdistance set to 5.

[Kaslo]

My laptop sucks and it runs FFXI and aion just fine.. after my PC blew up(getting a new one in a few days) for the last 3 months Iv been playing on my laptop just fine lol.

Unless your using a 7 year old PC I do not understand how people lag all that much with stuff turned down, I keep FPS of 25+ anywhere in the game with drawdistance set to 5.

Try playing on a console

I am worthless at being a stun whore when on my 360.

[Isiolia]

- pet tanking purpose by forcing a def buff?
- stop waking every slept mob/ agro pacific mob by avoiding use of aoe?
- any other status effect pet can do?

this update might be useless in HNM scene, but FF is not HNM onry!

DEF is relatively useless unless it's a major boost, and even then it'd be situational. Avoiding AoE? Sure. Status effects? Well, I guess if you're fine with waiting up to 6 minutes (presumably) for the chance to inflict an enfeeble...

Ability to control TP moves isn't a bad thing. The implementation is what's lacking. Would it -really- be that overpowered to let a ~60% ACC pet use whatever TP moves it could on the same Sic timer?

This doesn't change much at all for BST anywhere in terms of being a subpar DD with only niche usefulness. Being able to force Dark Spore every 4-5 mobs won't create damand for BST in merit. Preventing Bubble Shower won't change that pet AI in Dynamis or whatnot is retarded.

I realize there's likely some use for it, but IMO, it's a glass is 90% empty, 10% full thing...not really something to celebrate.

[dejet]

Try playing on a console

I am worthless at being a stun whore when on my 360.

Oh god I really did forget about PS2 users LOL. I do know what it is like, I got the ps2 ver after PC because my PC at the time sucked.
read: My mom bought it LOL i was like 13 I had no idea about making or building one myself. From that time on i pick every PC that came into my house. I have a few rules about PCs now.
1) no one goes near the inside of them but me >.>
2)even if you call someone dont do anything.
3)dont go near my PC or you get slap upside the head
4)close main p2p ports on anything but my PC lol. Brother screwed up our old one with that crap.

funny thing? every PC we have had runs much better....

[Sho]

BST update is nigh useless. Doesn't address the real problems the job has, and needlessly gimps jug pet TP possibilities.

I hope you're trolling. And I think you very blindly missed the fact SE stated they will monitor how the ability is used and will more than likely adjust the charge system just like how they adjusted Quick Draw and Stratagems. Actually I think a lot of people QQing at the BST update are missing this fact.

[yotevol]

My 2 Cents (Not quite 50-cent, but I'll try):

Yo, they brought SMN back,
It don't seem like such a hack.

Now while fighting Prudence back-to-back,
Diabolos potential in the tank party just got stacked,

Not only will Diabolos Refresh their back,
But his lowered costs and DoT make him on crack.

So for those people that think SMN got smacked,
Think of how cruel they could have been attacked!

eThuggin to the max!

(FYI, yes I am whiter than snow, but love to have fun and love the game!)

[dejet]

My 2 Cents (Not quite 50-cent, but I'll try):

Yo, they brought SMN back,
It don't seem like such a hack.

Now while fighting Prudence back-to-back,
Diabolos potential in the tank party just got stacked,

Not only will Diabolos Refresh their back,
But his lowered costs and DoT make him on crack.

So for those people that think SMN got smacked,
Think of how cruel they could have been attacked!

eThuggin to the max!

(FYI, yes I am whiter than snow, but love to have fun and love the game!)

snow is white? not yellow?

It's a combination. In part, yeah, what you get out of each spell. A WHM/SCH with additional cure potency gear (Nobles), Regen merits and gear enhancement, etc, gets more out of the same spells. Under light arts, they spend less to boot, compared to a RDM/WHM.
The other factor is spell library. RDM has a diverse library, but even with /WHM or something, they don't have all the tools a WHM has, especially now. Esuna for instance. In some cases that'll also translate to the WHM needing to do less work, and spend less MP, to do the same job.

That's really how I'm looking at it. RDM isn't efficient, compared to specialists for a task, though it does tend to offset that with MP recovery.
SMN, if anything, is even less efficient though, and slow to boot. IMO, the only way that'll change is if SE allows pacts to be called directly, rather than summon -> pact -> dismiss.

I see what you mean, yes the gap slowly closes in exp pts as whm hits 70+, they get sch sub full power with their hp>mp and nobles. Overall a good whm can do everything a rdm does. You do not need a rdm it just is safe for when shit hits the fan, having that extra MP is great. In my view I still think for merit pts Id take a rdm.

[byte]

well techically a new Avatar isnt a job adjustment because it usually involves a BCNM battle for all players and such.
new Avatar buffs look nice but... Fenrir one feels quite terrible and with Carby it'd the most accessible one, unless next patch shall introduce some more perp cost items.

Channels the avatar's power towards a beneficial status effect for party members within range. Reduces perpetuation cost while active.

Anyways, the BST update is awesome!!! The charges thing.. eh not so much Q_Q;

[Bikpik]

I'm 50/50 on the Bst update right now. There's not enough information to determine if it will be good or not. It'll all depend on how many charges we can stack, since nowhere does it say the pet has to be meleeing to build up charges, it just has to be called.

[Gergall]

I hope you're trolling. And I think you very blindly missed the fact SE stated they will monitor how the ability is used and will more than likely adjust the charge system just like how they adjusted Quick Draw and Stratagems. Actually I think a lot of people QQing at the BST update are missing this fact.

So the update is that they are going to monitor BST and update it in the future?

I would like to know what comprises this monitoring process. Invis GM watching a BST and taking notes?

[Spira]

I'm told the game is actually pretty smooth on PS2.. even more so than if run by non-emulated PS3.. and way less laggy.. tho i didn't see much problems on PS3 other than when in besieged... and sometimes campaign..

360 tho.. sux to be u i guess

[requim]

Seems like there are three possibilities for Favor to go: gimp TP, gimp BP, or gimp TP+BP.

The Japanese translation implies scenario A, which will hopefully mean 100% bonus for end game.

Scenario B could mean gimp for endgame, but practical for xp. Ifrit buffing the party with a chance of popping out a double proc Quadra Punch could awesome, even if BP are more infrequent. Summoner could be the bastard child of a corsair and a mage, hawt.

Scenario C, please reference Footwork.

A or B would still be a boost, plus you can always just not use it. Personally, I'm getting excited to try smn/dnc with carby out and drain samba. Or smn/nin to leave ifrit engaged while pulling.

Honestly bummed by most of the favors. Garuda would have been a big party pleaser (DD/support/healing go!) had it been haste or if Fenrir's was accuracy, but for all we know this is just an opener to a new avatar so we'll just need to wait and see.

As far as the rdm vs whm argument, it's rather silly. Both should be meleeing/pulling while your PL does all the healing more efficiently. In general it isn't that rdm trumps whm, but for the popular camps pre-merits whm's healing abilities are way over kill. Please list non-shitty camps that require erase or ones that have deathly tp/aoe moves that cure-1 can't handle. So even though rdm might be less efficient per healing spell it can easily recoup that with more mp recovery. For your typical camp convert, refresh, and stronger enfeebles easily outdo regen+1 or stoneskinning cures. I don't think there is anyone arguing whitemage's supremacy as the best healer in game, but that it's over kill for xp.