Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Jeryhn]

Wow, holy shit. A summoner is now, for all intents and purposes, a Corsair with an MP bar.

The "corresponding penalty" is Bloodpact availability. Since the Favor buff increases to full only after x amount of time has passed, it is less beneficial to switch an avatar on the fly if you want to maintain a full buff, which means a SMN is less likely to switch between avatars quickly to use different Rages and Wards, or to use Elemental Siphon, but this mostly depends upon how much perpetuation cost is saved on each avatar. Another question is whether or not activating Favor will cut down on spirit perpetuation costs as well.

However, this is an incredible buff for Summoners overall, and it makes perpetuation gear far, far more valuable overall. The Favors also give a reason for a Summoner to leave an avatar perpetuated, and to use Assault to attack enemies and generate TP to power up the merited Bloodpacts (which, by the way, I'm feeling giddy about unlocked all six now). The amount of applications this ability opens up for summoners is absolutely huge.

[Toth]

Wow, holy shit. A summoner is now, for all intents and purposes, a Corsair with an MP bar.

The "corresponding penalty" is Bloodpact availability. Since the Favor buff increases to full only after x amount of time has passed, it is less beneficial to switch an avatar on the fly if you want to maintain a full buff, which means a SMN is less likely to switch between avatars quickly to use different Rages and Wards, or to use Elemental Siphon, but this mostly depends upon how much perpetuation cost is saved on each avatar. Another question is whether or not activating Favor will cut down on spirit perpetuation costs as well.

However, this is an incredible buff for Summoners overall, and it makes perpetuation gear far, far more valuable overall. The Favors also give a reason for a Summoner to leave an avatar perpetuated, and to use Assault to attack enemies and generate TP to power up the merited Bloodpacts (which, by the way, I'm feeling giddy about unlocked all six now). The amount of applications this ability opens up for summoners is absolutely huge.

Which is exactly what we SMNs have been asking for for years and SE finally delivers.

BTW I can see why certain avatars did not get certain buffs. Garuda already has Hastega so Haste + is redundant. Fenrir also has an accuracy buff (albeit in flux with the moon) so an accuracy bonus would also be redundant.

[S N K]

.See: Not EXP, which is why I specified off the bat I was speaking of RDM as an EXP healer. It's obviously not a top tier the second you get into big hitters.

I agree with this point here because I sure as shit wouldn't trust an RDM to keep my ass alive on a mob like Byakko who can drop a PLD's HP down fast. In exp tho a WHM who subs SCH can do just as well as an RDM in exp.

Both jobs are exceptional and WHM is already a lot better then RDM in some aspects while in others RDM just it better. It's a coin toss but I feelt that both jobs bring an equal amount of good & bad to the table.

[Ksandra]

I said pre-meritpos. Won't disagree that SMNs can be in meritpos and do well.

Actually, pre meripo is even easier to heal than meripo hence why I posted my setups. Because at least in the 50s there is still resting downtime, whereas in meripo you are healing non-stop so for any healer it becomes a balance of keeping people alive without running out of mp which slows things down.

When I lvled summoner it was before siphon, but I did a static with a pld (yes a pld which is more healing than a nin tank), and it was easy as hell. (note I also have rdm at 75 so this was not my first healing job) It was pretty easy to keep two buffs up (usually garuda and fenrir with stoneskin thrown in once in awhile) and still main heal.

Like someone says if you're competent and keep your buffs up, then summoner is a really easy healer. In fact it was my favorite because though I love red mage it takes a lot more focus to heal on that than smn.

I will say again, the problem isn't smn, the problem is others thinking there is a problem. (or I would also add the other problem is summoners who don't want to heal in xp parties though I don't know if that still exists.)

[Horadrius]

I'm glad SOMETHING was done about Sic for beastmaster, but I can't stand how SE seems to think that our bread and butter is Call Beast. It's not. It's CHARM. The last major buffs have all been to jug pets. First the exp penalty applied only to jug pets (was extended to all pets...thank you SE), then Snarl comes out, jug pet only. Now this Sic update...jug pet only. What gives, seriously...

[Bakthi]

If you had a SAM in the party that had acc of 60% and pulled out a Gekko every 6 minutes, you'd kick them (I know I would).

This is pretty much what I was thinking. I know, I know...this is in addition to the damage from the BST itself, but as someone pointed out, BST is a BRD with Rampage (and now I wonder how it compares to Mordant Rime). Same gear (except body/feet), same STR, same total lack of DD job traits. Heck, BRD gets more haste. The big advantage BST has is two A- weapons instead of a B- with offhand C-.

I hope you're trolling. And I think you very blindly missed the fact SE stated they will monitor how the ability is used and will more than likely adjust the charge system just like how they adjusted Quick Draw and Stratagems. Actually I think a lot of people QQing at the BST update are missing this fact.

Well, here's my problem. I've had BST at 75 for quite a while. Not nearly as long as some; the anti-MPK patch fell just before I hit 35. But I've gotten my hopes up over and over again only to see BST not-even-showered with weak update after weak update (man, that Khimaira set makes me want to kill someone). It's like SE is terrified of making BST too good, because of BST's mighty...I don't know what. SE seems to fear BST the same way they think players fear Fafnir.

So when I see that they'll be monitoring the situation and adjusting things, I immediately read it as "If anything is accidentally a little bit good, we'll make sure to nerf the shit out of it." I'd rather not be so pessimistic, but it's the treatment I've come to expect for BST from SE. BST has been standing still for years while most other jobs have moved forward. They've gotten some sidegrades and interesting toys, but never enough. I don't know why SE is so terrified. If they go too far, like the initial 2-hander update, they can just scale it back a few weeks later. What would be so awful?

But they can't, or won't. I want to believe. But history doesn't suggest that I should. I'd like to think that SE will do the same for BST that they did for COR, SCH, etc., but I just can't get my hopes up, because it's BST.

[Not Kuno]

I just realized something:

Does the AoE buff come up around you? Or the avatar?


What do you do if the avatar is summoned 30 miles away because of terrain shit? lol

[Spider-Dan]

There are "drawbacks" to Afflatus Solace and Misery btw.. that being, mutual exclusivity.

So if I get a free Ferrari and a free Lamborghini, the "drawback" of the Ferrari is... that I cannot personally drive them both at the same time?

[Gergall]

The "corresponding penalty" is Bloodpact availability. Since the Favor buff increases to full only after x amount of time has passed, it is less beneficial to switch an avatar on the fly if you want to maintain a full buff, which means a SMN is less likely to switch between avatars quickly to use different Rages and Wards, or to use Elemental Siphon, but this mostly depends upon how much perpetuation cost is saved on each avatar. Another question is whether or not activating Favor will cut down on spirit perpetuation costs as well.

WHM, SAM, NIN, RDM, WAR (and /WAR), and merited DNC have to choose which stance to use, or whether to turn their stance on or off.

When/why would a SMN turn off Favors?

[Gergall]

So if I get a free Ferrari and a free Lamborghini, the "drawback" of the Ferrari is... that I cannot personally drive them both at the same time?

The important thing is that you have to make a strategic decision about which one to use and when to switch from one to the other (recast timers being part of that decision).

With Favor it seems you just keep it up nonstop.

EDIT: To put it another way, why isn't this just a job trait?

[Ksandra]

I just realized something:

Does the AoE buff come up around you? Or the avatar?


What do you do if the avatar is summoned 30 miles away because of terrain shit? lol

If there's one justifiable thing that can be a complaint about summoner, this would be it.

[Toth]

Please correct me if I am wrong but couldn't a very well geared BST/WAR or BST/NIN dualwielding good quality axes do very well in exp parties? What's average damage on merit mobs, DoT and WS wise? I mean, they can wear Adaman's after all.

[Spira]

So if I get a free Ferrari and a free Lamborghini, the "drawback" of the Ferrari is... that I cannot personally drive them both at the same time?

something like that, except ownership of either or both cars itself has no perceived value.

Its more like, my G5 ipod nano can tune into the radio and record videos. its an upgrade from the G4 yes?
but when I tune in to the radio, i can't record videos.. and vice versa.

cant use em together.

[Acturus]

What is the penalty?

The same teaser in other languages suggests more strongly that the avatar will suffer from a potency reduction somehow with this buff active. It's been assumed that this means a decrease in damage somehow, either reduction in attack, or maybe increased time between attacks. The specifics are all speculation, but like others have said, logically, for this to be a JA instead of a JT, there has to be some sort of drawback that will make the player consider whether or not he should use it.

[Gunitsoldier]

Any update is welcome but it's meh at most, for BST that is. It's great for SMN but the BST thing is kinda weak and if it's the only thing BST gets from this update -> big let down.

[Ksandra]

Please correct me if I am wrong but couldn't a very well geared BST/WAR or BST/NIN dualwielding good quality axes do very well in exp parties? What's average damage on merit mobs, DoT and WS wise? I mean, they can wear Adaman's after all.

It's funny you say that, my friend when he hit 71 he went anon and made parties and pretended to be a war, he wasn't all that bad XD Though he said a war would still blow it out of the water.

[Gunitsoldier]

A perfectly geared BST can perform "well" in merit. This being with full merits and the best gear possible though. Can count the amount of that kind of BST on my hand I think and even after all that effort of meritting and gearing it to the fullest , a good geared SAM or WAR beats it any day.

[Toth]

A perfectly geared BST can perform "well" in merit. This being with full merits and the best gear possible though. Can count the amount of that kind of BST on my hand I think and even after all that effort of meritting and gearing it to the fullest , a good geared SAM or WAR beats it any day.

Okay but that's true for almost any DD job at 75. I just can't see a decent BST with zerk or brd songs doing poor damage, even without the additional damage of the pet factored in.

[Gunitsoldier]

As I said, even with that included it still performs well-good but you'd need the best of the best gear sets and merits. Hardly any BSTs around like that. A non meritted WAR with the same gear as a perfectly equipped BST will always blow the BST out of the water and THAT is what makes BST like me just give up on it.
All the effort in getting the gear and merits to improve BSTs are all useless since a random sam, war or drk can beat the shit out of it.

[Toth]

As I said, even with that included it still performs well-good but you'd need the best of the best gear sets and merits. Hardly any BSTs around like that. A non meritted WAR with the same gear as a perfectly equipped BST will always blow the BST out of the water and THAT is what makes BST like me just give up on it.
All the effort in getting the gear and merits to improve BSTs are all useless since a random sam, war or drk can beat the shit out of it.

Okay on that but one thing: can the BST's pet make up the difference in damage? People too often focus solely on PUP and DRG damage without seeing the large boost from pets. Perhaps this update can help strengthen a BST's overall damage in a party with improved (re: consistent) and damaging TP moves.