Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Cadsuane]

Rather than looking at SMN as COR-without-gun, you should be looking at SMN as healer-with-a-Roll.

It's not COR that SMN will be competing with (Favor stacks with Rolls). SMN will be competing with WHM, RDM, and SCH for non-endgame healing spots (SCH is looking pretty roughed up straight out of the gate).

This update divides healers (<-this part is important) into 4 categories:

1) Curebombing/magical defense specialist (WHM)
2) Mana juice box with limitless MP (RDM)
3) Offensive buff specialist (SMN)
4) Also-ran (SCH, DNC)

You should be talking less about how SMN is COR-on-a-budget and more about how main healers will need to justify Cure4 vs. Double Attack.

psst. SMNs can't cast cure IV.

[Gergall]

That was his point. You can invite a WHM or RDM for Cure 4 or you could invite a SMN with Cure 3 and Double Attack party bonus. Take your pick.

Problem is that SMN has to bring out Garuda for Hastega every so often so the Double Attack bonus may never reach it's potential (far more details are needed to have this debate).

[Spider-Dan]

psst. SMNs can't cast cure IV.

psst. RDM and WHM can't give +Double Attack.

That's the entire point of justifying Cure4 versus Double Attack.

Problem is that SMN has to bring out Garuda for Hastega every so often so the Double Attack bonus may never reach it's potential (far more details are needed to have this debate).

Unless it's incredibly, laughable feeble to start, 2A+x% is going to beat 2A+0%.

[Midnightjade]

SMN now replaces BRDs for BLM/SCH (manaburn) parties entirely.

Woohoo! That works for me! No more chasing tarus around with a Harp! Can leave it to Diabolos now - at least he can fly.

The BST change may suck, but at least the update isn't a complete wash.

[Spider-Dan]

I'll be pretty cool with the BST update if 95% of all TP moves use 1 charge. Only the most broken of broken TP moves (1000 needles) warrant a 2- or 3- charge restriction.

While we are on the subject of charges and broken things: Random Deal tends to prioritize low-recast abilities over high-recast ones. Therefore, it seems to me that the following scenario would be rather likely:

1) BST uses Call Beast
2) Call Beast recast is now 4:59, Ready recast is now 1:59 with 0/3 charges
3) COR (with at least one Loaded Deck merit) uses Random Deal, which is is required to reset at least 1 JA when 2 or more are counting down
4) Ready, having the shortest recast, is reset to 3/3 charges
5) shenanigans

What's more, if Random Deal "fails," it would reset your Call Beast timer, so...

And obviously, Wild Card resets all non-2h recasts and refills all charges (on any total).

[Panthera]

I'd always figured the way to "fix smn" was to enhance buffs it already had; Crimson Howl, Hastega, Ecliptic Growl, etc. That way, they don't have to develop graphics; just adjust durations and potencies, etc. But they have been wanting to encourage Summoners to leave their pets out, and this is a good way to do it. The problem is, this is *potentially* at odds with their other motivation to leave pets out; Merit Cat II Blood Pacts. Will they adjust the damage output of Wind Blade etc as well? Will the weakenening of the avatar be limited to ATK, or will it effect ACC, MAB, etc? And *how much* will they be weakened? Negligable to where it won't matter, or nerfed to the the point where any BP: Rage's would be a waste of mp? Still, the Devs surprised me with this one with the approach they took to it.

The effectiveness of turning Summoner into more of a buffer job is going to depend on the fight and the size of the AOE of the Favor when the avatar is called. In Dragon's Aery, this obviously won't be an issue. On kited mobs, this would be less practical, as the summoner would have to time the pet getting called out as the Kiter comes in range of the Avatar. Also for this to work, the kiter is gonna have to get close enough such that it hits the healers as well. Also, for battles like Khimaira or Tiamat, etc the AOE would have to be big enough to hit both tanks and the healers, or it is not a replacement for Rdm Refresh or ballad. That said, Summoner might find a more suitable home in the Black Mage party, where they don't have to worry about hitting multiple people in one move. A lazy Summoner could just call Diabolos out and go afk while the rest of the Ally has its way with whatever it managed to claim. Seriously though, this could make Dual Box Refreshing situations much easier, for the Blm party at least.

It is interesting though that they made the ability the same level man TP burn jobs begin to shine. In the context of a level synch party, summoner does not replace any of the healing or buffing jobs. Diabolos refresh is nice, but it doesn't replace Madrigal/March/Minuet, AND ballad on tanks/healers, and Diabolos's buffs aren't doing much to strengthen the party in an offensive sense. What keeps an exp party going is refresh of some form. Any resting time at all is less exp/hour. The problem is, you're limited to the Favor and whatever buff that avatar gives you. Summoners are unlikely to have capped Summoning Magic Skill at Level Sync levels, so i just don't see Hastega > dismiss > Leave Diabolos until hastega wears off as a reality. Keep in mind that it might take a few minutes for Diabolos Refresh to start paying off, anyway, so... you end up putting him away to put Hastega back up just as you were seeing a return. Even if one were to leave to leave Ifrit out, you're only looking at an 8% increase in attack from crimson Howl Z (that won't stay on long) and a 15% Double attack rate. The Critical Hit rate from Ramuh is nice, but he has no Ward Buffs you'd actually want. Summoner as a A bard/core replacement? i think not. Summoner is now like a bard that can only do one Song of any substance, outside of Black Mage parties.
Now, in merit parties, this might be a different story, what you might see are cor/bard + summoner + meleex4 parties. Summoner had long been percieved as a "gimp white mage" till end game, but now at least it's bringing 1 buff to the table to even things out a bit. It's not gonna have the quick, immediate crowd control of Red Mage, and Cure IV is nice when Colibri feel prone to back-to-back Pecking Flurries and damage gets to be more than spamming Cure III's can keep up with.

It's not that i'm not excited about the changes, it just that there is such a thing as taking a sober, realistic look at what we've gained; a blm party refresher/buffer. The Big Question for exp parties are, for lack of a Bard or Corsair seeking, will Summoner be enough? Are people likely to say, "well, at least they have a Summoner," and accept the invite.

One a side note, 1) Now that even Summoner can both aoe haste and aoe refresh, Scholar is looking... 2) This ability is amusing, because i've been wanting Shiva to do me some favors for awhile now...

[Gergall]

Ok so a ton of BSTs with cactuar, some CORs, and outside healing/raises is the new AV zerg? Woot!

/em waits for post to be mysteriously deleted.

[SephYuyX]

Fuck this fucking piece of shitty worthless BST update.

JUG PETS ONLY?!

Fuck you SE. Stop being a god damn cock tease when the game is dying and just let us have some fun.
Theres no damn reason why this cant be used with non jugs.

[Xoraken]

Where are you see a Jugs pet only ? Ready! is just good for BCNM/KSNM/pet LS (and maybe for Pet LS than MonstersInc of Ramuh on Gods Sky)

BST with a Aoe WS pet can be usefull for pull all Corse near Tiamat

[Elesar]

What's up with Tame not working on mobs when you already have an active pet charmed/summoned?

[SephYuyX]

Where are you see a Jugs pet only ? Ready! is just good for BCNM/KSNM/pet LS (and maybe for Pet LS than MonstersInc of Ramuh on Gods Sky)

BST with a Aoe WS pet can be usefull for pull all Corse near Tiamat

When in control of a pet called forth via the "Call Beast" ability, the pet command "Sic" will be replaced with "Ready."

It's worthless to me. In my whole BST career I can count on one hand the times ive used a jug pet. During my whole time leveling many many moons ago, I used a jug once because I would have died otherwise. The other times were for shits and giggles to see how theyd perform, and a few BCNMs where there was no mobs to charm.

Granted I never got to use BST in end game situations as my BLM was always needed and no one wants a BST, but when I use BST to solo stuff, there have always been a better charmable mob around.

[SephYuyX]

Dont get me wrong, this is definitely better than nothing, being able to select a move rather than a random one is a long over due change, but it needs to be added to charmed mobs too, theres no reason why it cant be both. It's a pointless cock tease.

[Thiefami]

I'd always figured the way to "fix smn" was to enhance buffs it already had; Crimson Howl, Hastega, Ecliptic Growl, etc. That way, they don't have to develop graphics; just adjust durations and potencies, etc. But they have been wanting to encourage Summoners to leave their pets out, and this is a good way to do it. The problem is, this is *potentially* at odds with their other motivation to leave pets out; Merit Cat II Blood Pacts. Will they adjust the damage output of Wind Blade etc as well? Will the weakenening of the avatar be limited to ATK, or will it effect ACC, MAB, etc? And *how much* will they be weakened? Negligable to where it won't matter, or nerfed to the the point where any BP: Rage's would be a waste of mp? Still, the Devs surprised me with this one with the approach they took to it.

The effectiveness of turning Summoner into more of a buffer job is going to depend on the fight and the size of the AOE of the Favor when the avatar is called. In Dragon's Aery, this obviously won't be an issue. On kited mobs, this would be less practical, as the summoner would have to time the pet getting called out as the Kiter comes in range of the Avatar. Also for this to work, the kiter is gonna have to get close enough such that it hits the healers as well. Also, for battles like Khimaira or Tiamat, etc the AOE would have to be big enough to hit both tanks and the healers, or it is not a replacement for Rdm Refresh or ballad. That said, Summoner might find a more suitable home in the Black Mage party, where they don't have to worry about hitting multiple people in one move. A lazy Summoner could just call Diabolos out and go afk while the rest of the Ally has its way with whatever it managed to claim. Seriously though, this could make Dual Box Refreshing situations much easier, for the Blm party at least.

It is interesting though that they made the ability the same level man TP burn jobs begin to shine. In the context of a level synch party, summoner does not replace any of the healing or buffing jobs. Diabolos refresh is nice, but it doesn't replace Madrigal/March/Minuet, AND ballad on tanks/healers, and Diabolos's buffs aren't doing much to strengthen the party in an offensive sense. What keeps an exp party going is refresh of some form. Any resting time at all is less exp/hour. The problem is, you're limited to the Favor and whatever buff that avatar gives you. Summoners are unlikely to have capped Summoning Magic Skill at Level Sync levels, so i just don't see Hastega > dismiss > Leave Diabolos until hastega wears off as a reality. Keep in mind that it might take a few minutes for Diabolos Refresh to start paying off, anyway, so... you end up putting him away to put Hastega back up just as you were seeing a return. Even if one were to leave to leave Ifrit out, you're only looking at an 8% increase in attack from crimson Howl Z (that won't stay on long) and a 15% Double attack rate. The Critical Hit rate from Ramuh is nice, but he has no Ward Buffs you'd actually want. Summoner as a A bard/core replacement? i think not. Summoner is now like a bard that can only do one Song of any substance, outside of Black Mage parties.
Now, in merit parties, this might be a different story, what you might see are cor/bard + summoner + meleex4 parties. Summoner had long been percieved as a "gimp white mage" till end game, but now at least it's bringing 1 buff to the table to even things out a bit. It's not gonna have the quick, immediate crowd control of Red Mage, and Cure IV is nice when Colibri feel prone to back-to-back Pecking Flurries and damage gets to be more than spamming Cure III's can keep up with.

It's not that i'm not excited about the changes, it just that there is such a thing as taking a sober, realistic look at what we've gained; a blm party refresher/buffer. The Big Question for exp parties are, for lack of a Bard or Corsair seeking, will Summoner be enough? Are people likely to say, "well, at least they have a Summoner," and accept the invite.

One a side note, 1) Now that even Summoner can both aoe haste and aoe refresh, Scholar is looking... 2) This ability is amusing, because i've been wanting Shiva to do me some favors for awhile now...

._.

[Destinye]

Fuck this fucking piece of shitty worthless BST update.

JUG PETS ONLY?!

Fuck you SE. Stop being a god damn cock tease when the game is dying and just let us have some fun.
Theres no damn reason why this cant be used with non jugs.

For as long as I've played BSTs been saying they wanted Jug pets to be more worthwhile and getting direct control over jug pets is a good step. However as I said, it further proves:

SE finally gives people what they want (Avatar "auras" and direct control over jug pets) people will still bitch and moan.

If SE "just let us have fun" fuckers would still bitch about that. So since it's a 'dying game', why not just...accept things instead of bitching?

[Kairos]

Well there's 2 ways to ruin an online game.

1. Don't give people what they want

2. Give people what they want.

[SephYuyX]

BSTs have never wanted jug pets to soley have the abilty to select moves, all charmable mobs should have this too. If SE would do things properly, there would be no reason to bitch.

Tell me what benefit there is to only give jugs this ability? To give crafters a bit of hope?

[Yeager]

SMN Update: Looks great! Can't wait to try it out.


BST Update: I'm very underwhelmed with this. SE had the right idea, they just went at it in the absolute worst possible way.

I do agree that some pet abilities are superior than others, and as such, there should be 3 tiers. Instead of WAITING for "charges", I think it would have been better if each tier was based on the amount of the Pet's TP. 100 TP = Tier 1 abilities, 200 TP = Tier 2 abilities, 300 TP = Tier 3 Abilities. It will still take a decent amount of time for a jug pet to attain 300 TP in able to perform a desired ability (1000 Needles) but not nearly as long as the 6 minute wait for "charges". That's just........ARGH!!! IF the tiers were based on TP I'd totally be fine with the update. Unfortunately, this is SE we're talking about.....leave it up to them to screw something up.

[ronin sparthos]

For as long as I've played BSTs been saying they wanted Jug pets to be more worthwhile and getting direct control over jug pets is a good step. However as I said, it further proves:

SE finally gives people what they want (Avatar "auras" and direct control over jug pets) people will still bitch and moan.

If SE "just let us have fun" fuckers would still bitch about that. So since it's a 'dying game', why not just...accept things instead of bitching?

The only way to fix BST was to give more control over jugpets anyway, few endgame events would allow you to take wild monsters around to fight in battle anyway. (sup Salvage, Nyzul, Assault, Einherjar etc) They'll likely lower the charge time and it seems like just a preventative measure incase people decided to abuse the system.

The SMN patch looks all but complete with the avatar/s delivering the coup de grace, if it comes out this patch..... this century.

It's really about time on the aura effects though, SE has been using them off and on throughout WOTG (mantelets, SCNM bosses, ANNM mobs) and the only thing that could possibly hose SMN auras is a range issue which i assumed they learned from.

This game is hardly about fun for many, just look at the rage behind adding to MMM as an event.

Im waiting for the Walk of Echoes/Zvahl as much as the next person for the endgame content but seriously... sometimes people need to sit back and have a 'lil fun with XI.

[NervosaEternal]

The summoner update is nothing but a ploy to make us believe smn will actually get party invites, and deter us from doing summoner burns anymore. Good one SE

[frodnonnag]

from my point of view, this pretty much cemented smn in blm pt during endgame events where stuff needs nuking. For meriting/exp we still lack some, but at this point, unless they nerf it, it doesn't fucking matter anymore due to smn burns.

garuda and fenrir are already 1 mp a tic for me, and the other 5 avatars are 3 mp a tic. So for me at least, i will at minimum be getting free or refreshing garuda and fenrir, which is an insane deal for soloing. if i really put in the effort, i could trigger conjurer's ring and make them 2 a tic, so there's really a potential for top geared summoners at 75 to have ALL AVATARS FREE.

also, if these buffs also apply to avatars, shiva's merit pact just became king.