Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Arcanesoul]

Snarl may put Amigo at capped CE and VE, but Amigo won't be able to maintain the hate cap since jugpet has relatively low melee accuracy. Having said that it's going to be quite a challenge for tanks to maintain such high level of emnity against fast hitting mobs like Cerberus. If you are worried about losing Amigo too soon just stick to funguar.

All 3 TAU kings and Wyrms have access to nasty tp moves specifically designed to punish players who pull hate from behind. BLU/THF will benefit most from this setup, good BLU can land 1k+ SA cannonball on Cerberus, without feeding too much TP to cerberus or getting themselves killed.

I only mention this example to prove that BST is not as hopeless as ppl think. The job obviously still need a lot of work, it does have some unique features which can be used in endgame battles, ppl just need to look harder and give the job a chance to perform.

As for aoe TP moves, it's really not that big a problem, provided you don't use 1k needles right in the middle of a group of 5 Greater colibri. Mobs should die in less than 30 secs, if you accidentally wake the slept mob just let Amigo tank a bit, melee can easily voke it off Amigo when the party is ready to fight again.

I'll agree Bst is definitely not hopeless, but when you suggested using a pet to give the tank some breathing room, I thought you were also trying to make full use of Ready. That's why I'm making a point about losing the pet. It doesn't matter whether it's Amigo or Funguar. The pld's I know like some sort of rhythm for their hate keeping tools and if some are not up, they may not be able to overtake the hate spike you've just lumped on the pet quickly enough. The pet is going to down fast, especially if you get any extra attacks lumped in there, like from double attack. There's no attempt to maintain hate cap at all for the pet. It'll lose and gain it in large chunks because it has no form of damage mitigation and has hate built up over the span of 60+ seconds combined with it's own.

Basically all I was trying to say is that pet co tanking seems to go contrary to making full use of Ready. The other downside to losing your pet is that you'll have to build it's enmity up again to allow it to co-tank again. I think this is probably a more limiting factor to why people don't use pets to co-tank with currently. Either you let a group of pets tank a mob, or you get some proper tanks to do the job, which are also easier to support. I guess it does come back down to matter of practicality again.

[Acturus]

"replace" is a strong word, an alternative or paring up with a brd/cor is more appropriate (less resting time?)

Considering the blms usually go scatter and nuke, they might not be able to have refresh effect full time anyway.

Barring BRD rotations, what this does is re-allocate an event BRD to another role where it's spoony talents may be more useful (like buffing melee).

Circumstances will dictate, but more utility on a job in a game where the ever present question is "how few people can I kill X with" is always a good thing.

[Gergall]

Barring BRD rotations, what this does is re-allocate an event BRD to another role where it's spoony talents may be more useful (like buffing melee).

The SMN that you brought in to replace the BRD probably could have showed up to the event as another job (such as BRD).

Edit: But ok, more OPTIONS is always a good thing ^^

[Taruking]

I'll agree Bst is definitely not hopeless, but when you suggested using a pet to give the tank some breathing room, I thought you were also trying to make full use of Ready. That's why I'm making a point about losing the pet. It doesn't matter whether it's Amigo or Funguar. The pld's I know like some sort of rhythm for their hate keeping tools and if some are not up, they may not be able to overtake the hate spike you've just lumped on the pet quickly enough. The pet is going to down fast, especially if you get any extra attacks lumped in there, like from double attack. There's no attempt to maintain hate cap at all for the pet. It'll lose and gain it in large chunks because it has no form of damage mitigation and has hate built up over the span of 60+ seconds combined with it's own.

Basically all I was trying to say is that pet co tanking seems to go contrary to making full use of Ready. The other downside to losing your pet is that you'll have to build it's enmity up again to allow it to co-tank again. I think this is probably a more limiting factor to why people don't use pets to co-tank with currently. Either you let a group of pets tank a mob, or you get some proper tanks to do the job, which are also easier to support. I guess it does come back down to matter of practicality again.

You seem to have the wrong idea of jugpet = another PLD. What BST try to do here is to transfer hate from melee and BLU to the jugpet so that it can distract Cerberus from time to time. That's why I call BST a "semi co-tank". For example if jugpet manage to steal hate for 3 secs every 30 secs, it will shed 3 sec off utseusemi recast for both tanks.

How you play the job depends on how much hate your tanks are capable of holding:
Near cap - pop Amigo for beast killer effect, use 1k needles to add damage and pull hate from tanks
Mediocre - use Funguar for beast killer effect, resummon every 5 mins
Poor - use Courier Carrie, keep Scissor Guard to boost defense by 100%

[Acturus]

The SMN that you brought in to replace the BRD probably could have showed up to the event as another job (such as BRD).

Edit: But ok, more OPTIONS is always a good thing ^^

That was exactly my point. Since there is no guarantee that Joe Member has X job instead of SMN, it's better to help his SMN become more useful.

[Fryte]

So if we have to keep our avatars out...what's stopping SMNs from...wait for it...wait for iiiitttt.....meleeing and making use of Spirit Taker?

[Karbuncle]

You know what i just thought about.

What if these will be AoE to Everyone in Campaign Radius like BP:Wards are right now.

[laverna]

You know what i just thought about.

What if these will be AoE to Everyone in Campaign Radius like BP:Wards are right now.

Interesting Idea and also wondering if the Auras will effect BST, DRG or PUP pets.

[Keyln]

Interesting Idea and also wondering if the Auras will effect BST, DRG or PUP pets.

It will, but then SE will fix it.

/zing!

[Blinks]

:D was expecting SE to buff SAM some more... but BST?! never saw that one comming!

[GreenKnux]

:D was expecting SE to buff SAM some more... but BST?! never saw that one comming!

Technically it's more like a nerf...

[frodnonnag]

So if we have to keep our avatars out...what's stopping SMNs from...wait for it...wait for iiiitttt.....meleeing and making use of Spirit Taker?

in endgame events? rapeface aoes, the need for cures/erase/dispel, feeding tp.

in little casual romps with your butt buddy? not a damn thing.

[Thiefami]

meh the update is appearing more and more bare, rinkydink merchandising bs, 3 job changes, something about items, addon scenario, MMM fishing ...i think they feel its justified because they are releasing an avatar battle this update;/

[Dymlos]

Now, on top of all this, think of mixing a BRD into the mix. So you have BRD/COR/SMN/ 3DD. You can really make some interesting buff combinations happen. I really would not write SMN out of the TP burn Scene just yet. Not without giving some of these combinations a bit more testing.

Lovely, more reasons for let's not having DNC in a meripo, all for the sake of 'oops, not enough room for you DNC! Maybe next time!'

[willriker]

So if we have to keep our avatars out...what's stopping SMNs from...wait for it...wait for iiiitttt.....meleeing and making use of Spirit Taker?

For EXP's:

now there really is no reason not to melee, once you have spirit taker. The way i see it, ballad + autorefresh + reduced Perp + Siphon + sublimation + spirit taker... I dont know how you can run out of MP. The whole 'runnin out of MP to makeuse of cures/smn's' was the only reason you werent meleeing before. Now that having an Avatar out for long periods of time might be encouraged... you cant rest without killing off your avatar. You might as well put some damage on the mob for spirit taker.


For anything with bad AoE/TP moves:

Sorry man, put your avatar in so people get buff... but youll be needing to sit outside of range most the time.

[Eversor]

Dont gonna pick thru 15 pages but had some thoughts....

SMN - I am just waiting for all the SMNs to go on about they can replace CORs and BRDs in a pt. Still no new avatars so LOL

BST - All this talk of 1k Needles every 2 minutes with Amigo just makes me think that it will probably work like the BLU version, aka it wont. They need higher lvl caps on all the other jug pets otherwise Ready doesnt have any worth later on imo.

[willriker]

I do not think SMN's will go on rants that they can replace BRD or COR's. But, i can see them saying that they can be even more of a viable alternative to a RDM or WHM in exp's.

Sure, there might be a learning period in there as the playstyle would be quite a bit differant than it was before. But being able to fill that main heal spot, while DDing and having avatar out to DD, and bolstering a COR's rolls by effectivly doubling the effect, and offering a set of buffs that was not often used before, would be interesting to see put into action.

At the very least, this SMN update has promise. But, only time will tell. We need to see how long it takes for the buffs to increase. We need to see how strong they really are. We need to develope a workable method for SMN to use them. If it all works out as promised it could be a really nice update for them.

[ronin sparthos]

Lovely, more reasons for let's not having DNC in a meripo, all for the sake of 'oops, not enough room for you DNC! Maybe next time!'

SMN DNC BRD DDx3 sup?

[Keyln]

/headdesk

When will people learn that there's not much difference between a SMN/WHM or SMN/SCH healing and a BRD/WHM healing or a COR/WHM healing? The only real difference is that the SMN has a larger MP bar...and that's about it. All three jobs have abilities/spells that heal outside of their subjobs, but they have a limited effect, and they all chew up valuable resources (rolls, songs, bloodpact timers).

With this new update, I think it's high time that we stop putting Summoner in the same job as Scholar, Red Mage, White Mage, and even Dancer, and start putting Summoner in the same camp as Bard and Corsair. I think that the assessment that Summoner is more like a Corsair with a MP bar is highly accurate, and it should be stopped being seen as a healer-with-a-roll, as it does not accurately describe Summoner at all.

[Gunitsoldier]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!

ONE FUCKING WEEK AFTER I QUIT AND 6 FUCKING YEARS AFTER I START PLAYING AND THEY DO THIS?!


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i feel ur pain bro