Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Shin Volcano]

You need to read the quote in my post before you make any comment that makes you look stupid, we are comparing SMN vs BRD/WHM vs COR/WHM, nothing to do with RDM, WHM or SCH you smart head.

displaying facts is not looking stupid, maybe you should look up the word,

Your bringing up old shit that has been beaten into the ground.

what "comparison" is there with smn and brd, cor? remember, the update isnt here yet.

You just contradict yourself. Any job whose main responsibility is to keep your member alive IS a mainhealer and any mage job who has access to cure III and a decent size MP pool can be a main healer provided the person who play the job know what they are doing and the rest of the party are not retarded. RDM is not designed to be a mainhealer and yet it's the most popular choice. SMN's BP can deal damage and buff party members but that's not what ppl invite them for because there are other jobs in this game which can do those things better. Ppl invite SMN to mainheal because there is a severe shortage of healer type jobs on most servers and it will always be the case.

So you bascialy just copied exactly what i said and reposted {in your own unique words i guess?) looks like it's you who needs to read before you post, stupid is as stupid does?

Main healer may be a job that overseas the parties survival, but 95% of leveling smns don't use avatars, they spam cure 3 and curaga, this is not main healing, this is killing your self, but exp pts are not acttualy hard, so this is why they have gotten away with it, a blm/whm can do the exact same thing, so by this, they are also main healers, RDM has access to cure IV and convert, they can last longer survival and healing, smn cannot, once they run out of MP, that's it. if the party is taking tomuch damage they can't keep up.

A SMN can only keep the party alive vs modertly weak mobs, anything remotely hard, you have to face alot of down time because the SMNS mp pool is drained quickly vs higher level mobs. example would be say a 60 pt in Aydeewa Subterrane.

yes, they can "main heal" per say but very limited. did you get all that?

SMNs are meant to be a highly versatile job and should be able to fill in DD/enhancer/healer role when the need arises. Saying that SMN should never be a mainhealer just mean you don't even know how to play the job properly.

So you are telling me that because a SMN dosnt main heal they aren't playing the job properly? that's a very stupid statement, a SMN at 75 with a smn skill of 96 is not my idea of a smn who plays thier job properly, sorry. it's like saying if a PLD dosn't dd he isnt playing the job properly, PLDs can dd and dish out numbers, but it's not there true role or what they are meant to do, please don't make retarded statements like this again, they should NEVER be a main healer because it ISNT THIER JOB, they can just toss cures, not going to keep repeating my self, hell a fucking nin/whm can "main heal" if they had access to MP gear.

SMNs who learn to utizlie all there avatars in most situations are smns that can play thier jobs properly, not who can spam cure 3 the most. their is a big diffrence.

SMN is a verstiale job in DD and buffing, healing is not there strong point, no matter how hard you try, healing ruby 2 is always nice, but it's also on a timer, so it cant be chained if heavy damage is being taken.

Looks like you need to read more throughly.

[Taruking]

Those things only add to the SMN's MP, but it doesn't add to their healing capabilities. The best healing ability SMN has natively is Healing Ruby II, and that's really about it. When it comes to healing, the real muscle comes from the /WHM, which is also accessible to COR and BRD. A SMN/WHM or a SMN/SCH just simply does not have the healing abilities that the other jobs have, such as WHM, RDM, DNC, and SCH, and even PUP. If things go wrong, such as a poorly timed Pecking Flurry, there isn't much a SMN can do about it.

Speaking from experience, SMN can pull pretty well also. I've done it with birds.

Having a SMN main heal is asking for trouble. A poorly timed Pecking Flurry can make things really really difficult, and it would be much better for another job, such as RDM, WHM, or SCH, to take care of healing. One thing I do agree, though, is that a SCH + SMN is a very good combo, and can cover everything needed for a great party with offensive and defensive enhancements.

Being able to generate extra MP is a key part to being a good healer, why do you RDM is a better mainhealer than WHM in exp party?

SE have given SMN a huge selection of BPs. A good SMN is supposed to pick those which will benefit the party most. Rolling thunder and Crimson howl are waste of MP. Enthunder is likely to get resisted on IT mob and its benefit on 2h weapon is insignificant. Hastega sounds good on paper, it's impossible to hit 3min cap at lv48 and it costs a huge portion of SMN's MP at those levels. There are other jobs who can handle DD/enhancer roles far better than SMN. SMNs are more likely to help exp party if they focus on healing and throw in some DD/enhancing BP when MP are ok than taking up a COR/BRD spot.

If you keep tank HP near full, pecking fury should not one-shot your tank. If you don't not even RDM or WHM can't save your tank. Any SMN who think they can pull better than BRD or COR does not deserve a party invite.

[Yugl]

I actually like the direction SE is taking SMN. Hopefully, this means they're looking at SMN from a role perspective (i.e. What role can they fill in a PT) instead of a class perspective (What abilities should a SMN have and what would be nifty). If in the process of transforming SMN to a support role, they find they're having trouble balancing the class, they can always make stances to apportion the power of SMN along different bases.

[Karbuncle]

SE have given SMN a huge selection of BPs. A good SMN is supposed to pick those which will benefit the party most. Rolling thunder and Crimson howl are waste of MP. Enthunder is likely to get resisted on IT mob and its benefit on 2h weapon is insignificant. Hastega sounds good on paper, it's impossible to hit 3min cap at lv48 and it costs a huge portion of SMN's MP at those levels. There are other jobs who can handle DD/enhancer roles far better than SMN. SMNs are more likely to help exp party if they focus on healing and throw in some DD/enhancing BP when MP are ok than taking up a COR/BRD spot.

I disagree with some of this. first off, Rolling Thunder has pretty good M.acc on anything that's not HNM/Endgame, and will in most situations hit for 6-12, its not magnificent but it adds to the DoT of every job, though Haste comes first in all situations.

Hastega costs 129MP, hits 6 people for about 21MP-per person, For a 1:30~3Min Duration haste, for the sake of argument, lets say your hastega only lasts 1:30 due to lack of Smn Skill+ or not capped skill. Worst case scenario its 42MP For Full Duration of 3minutes that the Normal Haste spell is, which is 2x Bloodpact.

However, if you are the only haster in a party where everyone needs haste, its 240MP to cast on Everyone, including yourself, (About 18 less than hastega x2.). however, you'll not be as quick as a SMN in getting everyone haste. It takes 3 Seconds to cast haste without Fast cast, and 3 Second Recast. Meaning 6 Seconds per person. 36 Seconds to give everyone haste at the cost of 240MP, as opposed to about 12 Seconds it would take to Summon Garuda and use Hastega for 129MP.

Now the Haste spell does last 3:00minutes, so early on, Pre-50, a WHM or RDM will be more efficient in hasting a party. however, once Austere set comes available at level 50, the entire NQ Set adds +10 Summoning Skill, or +30 Seconds to Hastega, which bumps to being more cost and time effective than a round of haste from a RDM or WHM.
when a BP lasts 2:00 minutes, it doesn't really matter if the Recast time is 1:00, Not to mention Austere set lowers BP delay by 6 Seconds, making it possible to give an Extra Ward in between Hastega with room for error.

Tl;dr, After level 50, with mediocre SMN gear, Hastega will always be quicker and more MP efficient than an Average Haste cycle from RDM or WHM, Summoning Time included.


-Now, does this solve a SMN's spot in a party? probably not, but Hastega is more efficient and MP effective. though, from level 48-49 you're going to be SoL SMNs, careful there.

[Taruking]

what "comparison" is there with smn and brd, cor? remember, the update isnt here yet.

Originally Posted by Keyln
When will people learn that there's not much difference between a SMN/WHM or SMN/SCH healing and a BRD/WHM healing or a COR/WHM healing? The only real difference is that the SMN has a larger MP bar...and that's about it. All three jobs have abilities/spells that heal outside of their subjobs, but they have a limited effect, and they all chew up valuable resources (rolls, songs, bloodpact timers).

I requote the orginal post just in case you missed it. Keyln is trying to prove that there is no difference between SMN/WHM, BRD/WHM and COR/WHM when it comes to healing.

Main healer may be a job that overseas the parties survival, but 95% of leveling smns don't use avatars, they spam cure 3 and curaga, this is not main healing, this is killing your self. RDM has access to cure IV and convert, they can last longer survival and healing, smn cannot, once they run out of MP, that's it. if the party is taking tomuch damage they can't keep up

A SMN can only keep the party alive vs modertly weak mobs, anything remotely hard, you have to face alot of down time because the SMNS mp pool is drained quickly vs higher level mobs. example would be say a 60 pt in Aydeewa Subterrane.

Just because SMN can't cast Cure IV doesn't make it a less efficient healer. The amount of HP cured by a mage job is determined by other factors such as MP pool and ability to regenerate MP. RDM obviously works better because of refresh and convert. SMN has autorefresh, elemental Siphon and clear mind V trait. The difference between a SMN, WHM and SCH is indeed very small.

So you are telling me that because a SMN dosnt main heal they aren't playing the job properly? they should NEVER be a main healer because it ISNT THIER JOB.

SMN is a verstiale job in DD and buffing, healing is not there strong point, no matter how hard you try, healing ruby 2 is always nice, but it's also on a timer, so it cant be chained if heavy damage is being taken.

Compared to mage, SMN can handle curing just fine in exp party whereas their DD capacity is nowhere near proper melee jobs and enhancing BPs are significantly weaker than BRD's song and COR's rolls. That's why SMN should always focus on healing and use any spare MP to deal damage and buff party members since it's the most efficient role SMN can play in exp party.

[Khajit]

My bard has mainhealed in a lv 55 colibri party without any special emphasis on mp+ gear. Cure 3 goes a long way when the shit you're fighting is weak.

[Taruking]

I disagree with some of this. first off, Rolling Thunder has pretty good M.acc on anything that's not HNM/Endgame, and will in most situations hit for 6-12, its not magnificent but it adds to the DoT of every job, though Haste comes first in all situations.

After level 50, with mediocre SMN gear, Hastega will always be quicker and more MP efficient than an Average Haste cycle from RDM or WHM, Summoning Time included.


-Now, does this solve a SMN's spot in a party? probably not, but Hastega is more efficient and MP effective. though, from level 48-49 you're going to be SoL SMNs, careful there.

Why pick rolling thunder when there are way better rage BP to use?

As for hastega, don't forget you are taking up an exp spot at the same time, at lv48, 129mp IS a lot of mp unless you think it's worth sacrificing a party spot solely for the benefit of hastega. Depending on party setup, sometime it will be more beneficial to use a different BP or spend your MP to cure party members.

[Karbuncle]

Why pick rolling thunder when there are way better rage BP to use?

As for hastega, don't forget you are taking up an exp spot at the same time, at lv48, 129mp IS a lot of mp unless you think it's worth sacrificing a party spot solely for the benefit of hastega. Depending on party setup, sometime it will be more beneficial to use a different BP or spend your MP to cure party members.

While i forgot to mention yes, we have better BP's than Rolling thunder, i thought that was obvious, i merely mentioned if you had the chance to use it for WHATEVER reason, its not HORRIBLE.

Also, you're not really "giving up" anything when as a SMN you'll most likely be main healing in 90% of the parties you join, in a perfect world it may be different but in FFXI thats what a summoner is generally invited for. that being said, in most situations its simply going to be Tank/3DD/Support/SMN, support being BRD or COR. so it still stands that SMN would be more MP efficient in a Haste-Support situation POST Austere Set.

and 129MP Is nothing compaired to 160~240MP it requires to complete a Haste cycle as WHM or RDM, assuming you're hasting at least 4 people including yourself, so i'm not seeing how about 129 is such a huge deal.

However, from level 48 when you get hastega to level 50 when you get Austere set, Haste isn't going to be MP efficient. any point after that a SMN will shine. in a Situation where you're invited as a Back-Up healer/DD in a party, I still think Throwing Hastega so you're "Main healer" can focus on "Main healing" would be more beneficial and save more MP in the long run that tossing something else.

This part not for you:

As far as the main healing issue goes, as far as i can tell, for the last what, 4 or 5 years? SMN has been main Healing in parties fine, they've gotten by, they've done it effectively, and its efficient. Cure IV is only going to make a difference if your tank sucks ass and requires it. any NIN or PLD worth his damn in a party spot won't need a Cure IV outside of Eruca parties, and who the fuck would want to do those with Level Sync available. As far as merit parties go, i don't think i've ever been in a single merit party where i've witnessed a situation where Cure III and Regen II (/SCH) wouldn't handle the job.

This includes Mamool ja Parties :\

[Kaslo]

SMN does have native sleeps... Shiva AND Diabolos...

[Khajit]

With a brd+cor in pt there needs to be alot of fail for a mage to NEED to sleep anything if the support jobs are paying attention.

[urat]

Lets see here:

Dancer: Already a half decent DD if they arent generic 5 out of 5 AF meripo dnc, we hold our own, and can keep up the healing end.

Summoner: Now that the summon is out permanently, the summoner can toss in both offensive and defensive stuff instead of focusing on one. If your summon is out and you got the mp why not hit the birdy?

Bard: Ok well bard isnt DD but chances are theyre the puller so point is moot.

Corsair: Last time I checked any corsair worth their salt has a good gun and proper bullets. If it isnt a shitty cor theyll be hitting those birdies pretty damn hard too.

So yeah cor smn and dnc arent samurais or dragoons but we do have a notable amount of DD up our alley, possibly a lot more if said job is geared right.

So we have a party thats dnc brd cor smn + 2 other DDs. Thats 4 buffers all maintaining half decent DDing, while the dancer keeps up what heals are needed. Toss in 2 good DDs, samurai, dragoon, etc etc, and that would be one helluva party.

Hell if the summoner gets low on mp, pull out that melee staff and let the dancer swap to aspir samba 2 and the smn will be full in no time.

New reason to not invite a dancer to party? Try all the more reason :D

[Karbuncle]

Kinda wish i still had the picture of my SMN doing a 1000~ DMG Spirit Taker. it was on a Gignatobugard, but it was still sexy ;; recovered all of my MP.

SMN/WAR FTW! ⌐ ⌐

[Spider-Dan]

So yeah cor smn and dnc arent samurais or dragoons but we do have a notable amount of DD up our alley, possibly a lot more if said job is geared right.

So we have a party thats dnc brd cor smn + 2 other DDs. Thats 4 buffers all maintaining half decent DDing, while the dancer keeps up what heals are needed. Toss in 2 good DDs, samurai, dragoon, etc etc, and that would be one helluva party.

An interesting concept; let's just go cookie cutter and suppose we have [SAM SAM COR BRD DNC SMN] vs. [SAM SAM SAM COR BRD RDM]...

DNC+SMN:
+SAMs, if well geared, should be at the hard haste cap (25% gear + 20% marches + 15% Hastega + 10% Hasso + 10% Haste Samba = 80%)
+Ifrit's Favor will still stack on top
+DNC & SMN should be able to outheal a RDM easily
-SMN will probably require Evoker's Roll, or wind up with MP issues
-no Dia3 (though Box Step + Dia2 is just as good)
-less raw MP available

[Kairos]

Honestly in that situation i'd consider evoker's roll to be a luxury if I was playing smn. As long as the summoner remembers to siphon elemental every 5 minutes when it's up, that should completely cover the cost of 6 minutes of hastega(2). With favor up while using ifrit and a good perpetuation set you won't lose much mp at all. Having evoker's roll at that point would allow you to gain mp faster than you can spend it. Throw in -10% spell cost and sublimation from /sch and mp troubles would be a distant memory.

The one thing i worry about is the cost of tossing dia2 at every mob, but this still wouldn't cause mp loss to the point you'd have to actually rest (eww. Nothing I hate more on smn than sitting on my ass doing nothing trying to recover some 1200mp)

[Shin Volcano]

I requote the orginal post just in case you missed it. Keyln is trying to prove that there is no difference between SMN/WHM, BRD/WHM and COR/WHM when it comes to healing.

also no diffrence between nin/whm war/whm, sam/whm blu/whm, it's a diffrence of MP what's your point? in other words, this is a no brainer thing. didn't need to be quoted or acknowledged.

Just because SMN can't cast Cure IV doesn't make it a less efficient healer. The amount of HP cured by a mage job is determined by other factors such as MP pool and ability to regenerate MP. RDM obviously works better because of refresh and convert. SMN has autorefresh, elemental Siphon and clear mind V trait. The difference between a SMN, WHM and SCH is indeed very small.

Wrong, it's huge, as i said, EXP pts are not hard, so they are not a good example, we're talking later on when healing effectivly will actually matter, The amount you cure goes a long way as well as your - enimity gear so you don't grab hate from over curing, rdm and sch's healings diffrence is very small, whm smn are a HUGE diffrence, don't be silly. stop going by EXP pts only, they mean shit. a whm and sch can heal from level 1- endgame, smns healing dies after 60-70 because at that point, they start grabing to much hate and running dry quickly. there IS a big diffrence.

Compared to mage, SMN can handle curing just fine in exp party whereas their DD capacity is nowhere near proper melee jobs and enhancing BPs are significantly weaker than BRD's song and COR's rolls. That's why SMN should always focus on healing and use any spare MP to deal damage and buff party members since it's the most efficient role SMN can play in exp party.

as i said above, they can Get away with healing in EXP pts untill after 60, it starts to become a problem after 60 i'v seen it to many times. GOOD smns can alter between dding, and buffing and BACK UP healing after 50, dbl slap IS a good dd move if you kept up with smning magic skill, you have it backwards, smns should focus on buffing and small dding and heal with spare mp when the REAL healer is running low, once again, you are trying to make it that smn is a real healer, it's not, get over it, earthen ward, double slap, hastega will all keep them busy at high levels, NOT SPAMING CURES. this is NOT a good smn, at any point at time, they just DO this to get exp, because they have NO choice. due to the one-track mind community that gets depsarate due to lack ofhealing jobs, it's a "take what you can get" thing its not effective, to the point were it will go smooth.

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here, can smn heal? yes, just like any other job that subs whm, can they do it truely effectivly? NO, they are limited in the last 2 posts i just mentioned, can they get away with it? yes because exp mobs are not hard depending on what level and what mobs you are fighting. the most "effective" way to heal as smn is to keep carby out most of the time, spaming between healing ruby 1 and 2, and using siphon when mp is needed, that's about as effective as you are going to get. because don't forget, Carby's Healing potecy is effected by how much TP he has. it's hate free, excluding the small you get from issueing commands.

[Lovex]

Can't wait.

Was hoping for a new avatar but this will doe. AOE refresh sup

[Dooom]

SMN does have native sleeps... Shiva AND Diabolos...

Yes, and I said as such in my post:

Summoner needs to use ward charges to sleep, and they're all AoE.

As is pointed out above, smn having to first summon an avatar and then use the pact is slow. Add in that the two sleeps summoner gets are AoE, and you can see how this can be an issue compared to what other support jobs offer in terms of sleeps. Furthermore, any summoner saving ward pacts in a party "just in case" they need to sleep an aggro or add is really depriving the party of a lot of things.

[Karbuncle]

Wrong, it's huge, as i said, EXP pts are not hard, so they are not a good example, we're talking later on when healing effectivly will actually matter, The amount you cure goes a long way as well as your - enimity gear so you don't grab hate from over curing, rdm and sch's healings diffrence is very small, whm smn are a HUGE diffrence, don't be silly. stop going by EXP pts only, they mean shit. a whm and sch can heal from level 1- endgame, smns healing dies after 60-70 because at that point, they start grabing to much hate and running dry quickly. there IS a big diffrence.

i only want to address this section

I'm not quite sure if you just have had really bad parties, or if you're just a terrible Summoner. But i've never had any trouble, 1-75, on my SMN Main healing in a party. Infact, ones carbuncle became free, i'm able to keep him out in 95% or my parties and never run out of MP, allowing him to Healing Ruby 1 at times for over 200HP (For 8MP, hateless), hell in most situations i can get by just casting Regen and using Healing Ruby ever minute on the party.

i don't know why you keep saying SMN's will "Run dry" and "Grab hate" From Cure III when its in fact the most commonly used and effective Cure spell. The only time you're going to get hate from Cure III is if your tank sucks, and FYI, if you were using Cure IV you would get hate a lot sooner... and if you're using Cure V, you need to fucking pay attention cause your tank should never be low enough for Cure V bar-endgame events.

I've never in my 5 years of playing this job came across a situation like you've been describing where "Cure IV and V" are so absolutely needed, ever. this is of course doing 1-75 partying on SMN before Campaign or Level sync, and leveling it after level sync with friends on all levels.

If anything, level 60-70 is the best example of how healing can be done by just about any /whm job effectively. Melee begin to get good WS' and Armor choices, PLD get reprisal, everything begins to come together at this level, and mobs die quicker.

Endgame, and by that i mean events at 75, no one tells you to "Come SMN and main heal", at endgame is when SMN Finally becomes a full fledged DD. at 70 they get the potential, its there, but when it comes down to it people still invite them as a Main healer, and they do a damn good job.

tl;dr : SMN Can mean heal just fine in every situation bar-endgame events, and if you have problems keeping people alive and not getting hate with Cure III, you're in a terrible fucking party or you're a terrible SMN.

Carby's Healing potecy is effected by how much TP he has. it's hate free, excluding the small you get from issueing commands.

Really quick. Healing Ruby's real boost comes from SMN Skill, TP only has a small effect, with capped Skill you'll rarely see under 300, even with 0% TP

[Keyln]

Being able to generate extra MP is a key part to being a good healer, why do you RDM is a better mainhealer than WHM in exp party?

It's not just about MP. You're missing this point. Why do you think RDM and WHM are preferred "mainhealers" over SMN? It's not just about MP, but it's about the ability to recover for when things go bad. And if you sit there thinking that things will never go bad, then you haven't been playing this game long enough.

SE have given SMN a huge selection of BPs. A good SMN is supposed to pick those which will benefit the party most. Rolling thunder and Crimson howl are waste of MP. Enthunder is likely to get resisted on IT mob and its benefit on 2h weapon is insignificant. Hastega sounds good on paper, it's impossible to hit 3min cap at lv48 and it costs a huge portion of SMN's MP at those levels. There are other jobs who can handle DD/enhancer roles far better than SMN. SMNs are more likely to help exp party if they focus on healing and throw in some DD/enhancing BP when MP are ok than taking up a COR/BRD spot.

Cool strawman argument there, brah.

If you keep tank HP near full, pecking fury should not one-shot your tank. If you don't not even RDM or WHM can't save your tank. Any SMN who think they can pull better than BRD or COR does not deserve a party invite.

Wow, way to miss the point. My point is that the healing spot is, and has been, a poor spot for Summoner, and they can do better in the support spot, even more so after this patch. When it comes to healing with /WHM, any job that has access to MP gear can sub WHM to heal. SMN isn't that special. BRDs been doing it, and I've even seen COR do it as well. This is why SMN in the healing spot is rather poor.

Just because SMN can't cast Cure IV doesn't make it a less efficient healer. The amount of HP cured by a mage job is determined by other factors such as MP pool and ability to regenerate MP. RDM obviously works better because of refresh and convert. SMN has autorefresh, elemental Siphon and clear mind V trait. The difference between a SMN, WHM and SCH is indeed very small.

Okay, so quick scenario test. Your tank takes a 400 damage pecking flurry. Which is more efficient: Cure III or Cure IV?

Cure III: 46 MP per cast, 2.5 casting time, 6 second recast time. Can heal 210 HP (with Apollo Staff)
Cure IV: 88 MP per cast, 2.5 casting time, 8 second recast time. Can heal 420 HP (with Apollo Staff)

So, to heal 400 points of damage, it would take two castings of Cure III, at 92 MP and take 11 seconds (5 seconds casting time plus 6 seconds recast), while it would take a single casting of Cure IV, at 88 MP and 2.5 seconds (no need to wait for recast as there is only a single casting). So Cure IV is way more time efficient (and MP efficient as well.) than Cure III. As a point of order, higher level cure spells are generally more efficient than lower level cure spells.

So, why invite a SMN to do the job that there are five other jobs that can do as well or better?

Now as far as pulling and sleeping links are concerned, yes, SMN can pull rather well. Go out, sic the pet on something, pull back, and wait for the tank (or a DD) to grab hate, and then go out to pull something else while the party is beating on the monster. If the previous monster isn't dead yet, just let it beat on the avatar until the party's ready. Resummon if necessary, and go out and pull again. Can do this for forever as long as the MP's there. And if links happen, just release and the links go away. It's not THAT hard.

[Shin Volcano]

i only want to address this section

I'm not quite sure if you just have had really bad parties, or if you're just a terrible Summoner. But i've never had any trouble, 1-75, on my SMN Main healing in a party. Infact, ones carbuncle became free, i'm able to keep him out in 95% or my parties and never run out of MP, allowing him to Healing Ruby 1 at times for over 200HP (For 8MP, hateless), hell in most situations i can get by just casting Regen and using Healing Ruby ever minute on the party.

i don't know why you keep saying SMN's will "Run dry" and "Grab hate" From Cure III when its in fact the most commonly used and effective Cure spell. The only time you're going to get hate from Cure III is if your tank sucks, and FYI, if you were using Cure IV you would get hate a lot sooner... and if you're using Cure V, you need to fucking pay attention cause your tank should never be low enough for Cure V bar-endgame events.

I've never in my 5 years of playing this job came across a situation like you've been describing where "Cure IV and V" are so absolutely needed, ever. this is of course doing 1-75 partying on SMN before Campaign or Level sync, and leveling it after level sync with friends on all levels.

If anything, level 60-70 is the best example of how healing can be done by just about any /whm job effectively. Melee begin to get good WS' and Armor choices, PLD get reprisal, everything begins to come together at this level, and mobs die quicker.

Endgame, and by that i mean events at 75, no one tells you to "Come SMN and main heal", at endgame is when SMN Finally becomes a full fledged DD. at 70 they get the potential, its there, but when it comes down to it people still invite them as a Main healer, and they do a damn good job.

tl;dr : SMN Can mean heal just fine in every situation bar-endgame events, and if you have problems keeping people alive and not getting hate with Cure III, you're in a terrible fucking party or you're a terrible SMN.




Really quick. Healing Ruby's real boost comes from SMN Skill, TP only has a small effect, with capped Skill you'll rarely see under 300, even with 0% TP

Acttualy, i will agree with you here, leveling SMN was the worst exp iv ever had in this game,80% of them were terrible, i had to make most of my pts, to be a terrible SMN you have to do nothing but cure, but even still, its hard to acttualy be bad at smn aside gear choices. like i said many times, exp pts are NOT HARD so being able to get away with healing as smn can still be done, im explaing to him that its not what a true smn does. i dont know what your idea of a terrible smn is, but one spaming cures acting like a whm sure and shit isnt a good one. that's being a good "WHM"

But if you want a choice, id have to give you the terrible pts i leveld smn back in 06 if that matters. out of all the pts i had, only 2 were good, and they conisted of a whm+smn +various DDs TP does have an effect, because back then you had no way in hell of keeping skill anywhere near caped unless you spent days summong and releasing in al zhabi or somthing, and very few smns would actually keep up with summoning skill between levels.