Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[frodnonnag]

Who the fuck cares, fuck you, stupid ass bitch, i really dont give a shit about you being a fucking grammer nazi, oh good you can fucking count spelling here, want a mother fucking cookie? no you can have a fucking middle finger pointed at you, STFU. this is BG not a damn class room,

All I see is sperg sperg sperg, and now over 15 errors.

No, YOU re wrong, who the fuck merits with smn over rdm whm or even sch? find me one, that isnt a set up invovling a pld and thf probably, smn does not "tie" any of them. you're just as retarded.

I have done close to 70 of my current merits in a typical colibri merit party. People are downright surprised when a good party with me gets going, and I've been re-invited because of it. I have personal experience that summoner does extremely well in a party, no matter how much you sperg over it.

Once again, WHO FUCKING INVITES SMN TO A MERIT PARTY, that ecliptic howl dosnt mean shit. SMNs do not get merit invites. you fail to understand, that Damage is coverd by the DDs in the merit parties, and if the DD are even worth half a shit, you won't thave to fucking PC, are you retarded?

Because damage is "covered" by DD doesn't mean that I can't fire off pacts as mp allows and boost kill speed further, it's the basic concept of the job, support AND DD.

The update isnt here yet dumb ass, WE don't know how potent it will be or even how well it will work out, and once again, i DOUBT it will change how smns are treated, you will wont get a smn in party over the other more supirior healers/supporters, they have to be a significant increase to get a slot, wait till the fucking update, easily paces? you're just as stupid as taru, how the fuck can you compare a Hp=MP swap, to a ability that needs time to charge, OMFG, YOU GOT 323 MP back, oh wait.. why the fuck are subbing /sch in a merit party? SMN will NOT be that effective, at that point you may as well call it an EXP pt.

I did not mention diabolos's upcoming refresh ability at all, or the lower perp cost, it was entirely things I can do RIGHT NOW to get MP back. /sch works better in colibri than /whm because of sublimation and a usable sleep. As it is I can get roughly 450 MP every 5 minutes, not counting auto refresh, or ballad, or evoker's roll. Again, I can easily keep pace with a redmage's convert.

Get off your ass and read the damn lines, no one gives a shit about how i spell, if you can't read it, TO FUCKING BAD, i love when people with no valid argument jump right to the grammer.

/angry mode off

My name starts with "Orochi" for a reason, don't get me angry with stupid shit.

Half of any argument is how the person presents himself. You aren't winning any support coming off as a complete fool.

[frodnonnag]

I definitely need some explanation about whm or sch being WAY better than smn in a good merit PT (meaning sharing utsusemi between DDs and understanding how to use their shadows, each one of them).

Whm, rdm and sch are better than smn ironically in worse off merit parties. A summoner can't keep up with gimp DDs soaking damage and taking too long to kill, i know from painful experience with gimp invites. The better a party works, the more a summoner comes out ahead in merits vs the other 3.

[Shin Volcano]

All I see is sperg sperg sperg, and now over 15 errors.

And yet, i still don't give a shit. Try again.

I have done close to 70 of my current merits in a typical colibri merit party. People are downright surprised when a good party with me gets going, and I've been re-invited because of it. I have personal experience that summoner does extremely well in a party, no matter how much you sperg over it.

Good for you, i did that years ago, welcome to the party, but then i leveld RDM and found it was far better exping with that, again, welcome to 2009, you think you're the only one that has done this? i'v done merit pts as smn, quite well might i add, but they do not match up to any of the other 3 better support job, that is my point. you're not special kiddo.

Because damage is "covered" by DD doesn't mean that I can't fire off pacts as mp allows and boost kill speed further, it's the basic concept of the job, support AND DD.

Oh nice, you can fire off a 800-1.3k PC every 46-1 min (depending your bp set] while DDs are doing that every 10-15 seconds, congradulations, you have learned how to deal damage, at a slower rate. you also have down time from using Mp to do buffs and rest due to the mmassive amount of MP you are cosuming using Predator claws, reminder: the DD don't use MP to deal damage, they use TP, which they don't need to rest for, so you have to ask your self, Why do they need your damage? again, nothing new.

I did not mention diabolos's upcoming refresh ability at all, or the lower perp cost, it was entirely things I can do RIGHT NOW to get MP back. /sch works better in colibri than /whm because of sublimation and a usable sleep. As it is I can get roughly 450 MP every 5 minutes, not counting auto refresh, or ballad, or evoker's roll. Again, I can easily keep pace with a redmage's convert.

/sch cannot erase, if you have a brd in party, the dd or brd can and WILL occassionaly get hit by elegy, gl getting rid of it, and don't give me that bullshit about people shouldnt be getting hit by it, cause it happens, there is no avoiding it. curaga is also good, when your timer is down for that healing ruby II or you don't have time to summon, welcome to 2009 again. wow 450 mp every 5 minutes, i guess not alot can happen within 5 minutes, i guess you've never dealt with a link or when shit simply hits the fan. The update is not here yet, so don't post expriance about somthing no one has seen yet, i'm personaly going to try SMN in merit when the update comes, so i will know my self.

Also please explain how you can siphon for 450 MP, i'm quite intrested in this one. roughly or not, 400 is very hard to reach, if at all. closet iv came was 360ish and that was during double weathers, (not inculding possible merits) 400 may be possible, but 450? i'll need some proof on that. (no, don't include sublimation, they share diffrent timers and cicumstances}

Half of any argument is how the person presents himself. You aren't winning any support coming off as a complete fool.

I will agree with you here, for once. i let my anger get in the way when i see stupid posts like what this whole page has practicly been, ranting and spewing words, congradulations on getting one on point.

But a Fool likes to attack things like grammer and spelling when they can't find anything else, since that has nothing to do with this argument.
it's pretty the same as throwing the white flag. and you need a scape goat.

I know full well how to you use smn, and i KNOW it can heal, THAT IS NOT my argument, imy point is that is does NOT match up to rdm, and whm ina EXP pt or merit, no matter how good you are or how bad the PT is. in a good party, a rdm and whm will even further come out on top, because there is no such thing as a perfect dd that won't ever take damage. unless everyone has a relic is 1-2 shotting every mob as soon as they attack.

Don't get me wrong, i LOVE SMN more then any other job, but you can't escape the flaws that it has, and the way the community treats and sees it, i hate it as much as anyone who loves SMN, but i'm also not one to live on deniel


Oh i just found this.

Whm, rdm and sch are better than smn ironically in worse off merit parties. A summoner can't keep up with gimp DDs soaking damage and taking too long to kill, i know from painful experience with gimp invites. The better a party works, the more a summoner comes out ahead in merits vs the other 3.

Yes, only if the DDs are not taking any damage, you need a PERFECT party for SMN tocome ahead, but does not really exsist with the parties people put together, you are basing this off smn never needing to cure, since all there MP can focus on buffing, but once again, ask your self, what kind of party will you find like this often?

[frodnonnag]

And i'm saying that the healer slot in a party isn't based solely on how it heals, but what else it brings. Redmage, whitemage and scholar just can't bring buffs or damage on par with what summoner has to a merit camp like colibri.

Oh, and if i ever need a curaga 4, it would be better, and probably cheaper MP wise, to throw out a light spirit and position it, the little bugger doesn't get nearly the support and use he deserves.

[Shin Volcano]

And i'm saying that the healer slot in a party isn't based solely on how it heals, but what else it brings. Redmage, whitemage and scholar just can't bring buffs or damage on par with what summoner has to a merit camp like colibri.

Oh, and if i ever need a curaga 4, it would be better, and probably cheaper MP wise, to throw out a light spirit and position it, the little bugger doesn't get nearly the support and use he deserves.

For the sake of this whole 2 pages of nosense, let's say you are right. SMN IS the king of buffs, BUT that's it. if something goes wrong and lots of healing is needed they can't keep up, but the real question is, how will you convince a Good party to invite you as SMN? or even still, making one is hard, because people are ass holes and will ignore you if you aren't a trademark job. i know well about light spirit, i use him alot, but he's very random and never casts what you need all the time, best use i have for him is to 2 hour and let him go to work. with as much SMN skill gear as possible, provided that it isn't darksday, but he drains alot
if 2 hour is not up. wish he could raise tho.

[Taruking]

For the sake of this whole 2 pages of nosense, let's say you are right. SMN IS the king of buffs, BUT that's it. if something goes wrong and lots of healing is needed they can't keep up, but the real question is, how will you convince a Good party to invite you as SMN? or even still, making one is hard, because people are ass holes and will ignore you if you aren't a trademark job.

The real question is how can you make sure the SMN you invite actually know how to play the job to its full potential? SMN like you are the main reason the job get its bad name. Most good SMN in this game (in fact any support job including RDM, WHM and SCH) are japanese players.

SMNs who burn MP on bloodpact, let avatar out to melee and refuse to mainheal are not using their MP in the most efficient way. You keep saying SMN can't keep up with WHM and SCH in exp party, that's because you have no idea how to time your BP/resting and make use of bloodpact such as healing ruby II. I have mainhealed 5 decent melees in C.Mire on SMN without any major issue before SE added Elemental Siphon and met countless terrible RDM/WHM/SCH who failed to keep party members alive at the same camp. If you know how to push the job to its limit there is no significant difference between SMN, WHM and SCH healers.

Some useful tips for players out there who still doubt SMN's ability to mainheal in exp party:
1) Maximise your resting time. SMN and BLM have the highest tier clear mind trait in this game.
2) Timing is very important and should take priority over BP choice etc. Try to use the same Avatar for both rage and ward BPs. For example in lv70+ exp party, use Garuda to do both hastega and predator claws > rest for MP for ~1min > get up summon Fenrir to do Ecliptic howl + Eclipse Bite, rinse and repeat
3) Do not heal melee to full, use cure III and regen to keep them above 50%, use curaga when more than 2 melees needs cure while party is still fighting; curaga II or summon carby to do healing ruby II when mob is about to die.
4) Aim to buff and cure party to full right before puller brings in next mob. This gives you plenty of time to rest since PLD will have enough MP to survive the first half of the fight and mob is less likely to use TP moves in the beginning.

You are not going to be an efficient mainhealer if all you try to do is summon avatar, spam BP and cure III on any melee job who takes damage.

[dejet]

The real question is how can you make sure the SMN you invite actually know how to play the job to its full potential? SMN like you are the main reason the job get its bad name. Most good SMN in this game (in fact any support job including RDM, WHM and SCH) are japanese players.

SMNs who burn MP on bloodpact, let avatar out to melee and refuse to mainheal are not using their MP in the most efficient way. You keep saying SMN can't keep up with WHM and SCH in exp party, that's because you have no idea how to time your BP/resting and make use of bloodpact such as healing ruby II. I have mainhealed 5 decent melees in C.Mire on SMN without any major issue before SE added Elemental Siphon and met countless terrible RDM/WHM/SCH who failed to keep party members alive at the same camp. If you know how to push the job to its limit there is no significant difference between SMN, WHM and SCH healers.

Some useful tips for players out there who still doubt SMN's ability to mainheal in exp party:
1) Maximise your resting time. SMN and BLM have the highest tier clear mind trait in this game.
2) Timing is very important and should take priority over BP choice etc. Try to use the same Avatar for both rage and ward BPs. For example in lv70+ exp party, use Garuda to do both hastega and predator claws > rest for MP for ~1min > get up summon Fenrir to do Ecliptic howl + Eclipse Bite, rinse and repeat
3) Do not heal melee to full, use cure III and regen to keep them above 50%, use curaga when more than 2 melees needs cure while party is still fighting; curaga II or summon carby to do healing ruby II when mob is about to die.
4) Aim to buff and cure party to full right before puller brings in next mob. This gives you plenty of time to rest since PLD will have enough MP to survive the first half of the fight and mob is less likely to use TP moves in the beginning.

You are not going to be an efficient mainhealer if all you try to do is summon avatar, spam BP and cure III on any melee job who takes damage.

Last I saw the JPs where behind in this game after RoZ lol try again. The JPs with some of the best gear have no clue how to use it. Not to say that all of them are like that, or that the NA/EUs dont have their fair share of this. Just that there seems to be more crap uska monks that are JP then I can count. Lets also not get started on myth/relic JP users.

A good smn can heal and buff this is very true. You jsut have to hope to god if you have a war he does not get furryed to death with one shadow left. Next smn cant heal the mamool camps. Fire spit deals to much dmg, rush attacks deal nuts. you need a rdm or whm for that. On birds Yes a smn can add a lot. Then again I lvled bard to 75 and I am now sick of birds I tend to stay away from them.

edit:we can almost say for a fact that the refresh will be only 1mp a tic off the bat, after that we have not a clue how long the 2-3(if 3) will take. smns Buffs are not all that cheap and in bad spots you might not have the healing power to keep up with a chain.

-You cant pull like a bard
-You cant sleep(fast) like a rdm, sch or whm
-You dont have convert. even tho ES in a way is sorta like it its not 700mp whenever you want its 300 and you cant do it on the go if you need to spam cure 4 or curega fast.
-You most likely wont be keeping SS up that is hardly worth the MP and really with haste/acc/str-dex buff a 4th would be to much/be down a lot.(aka you have to release a pet if you have it out then call the right ele then use the JA then release again)

Smn is good, however it has a lot of short comings. If you want to keep that crap up you wont have the added refresh after the update as an FYI.

[Kaslo]

Is this still a SMN healing bitchfest?

[dejet]

Is this still a SMN healing bitchfest?

so it would seem.
Dont you know SMN heals real good!

need them to say something so we can get off this and bitch about the next thing. bitching about something for weeks is getting old new bitch come on!

[Day]

Right right, Post counts very much matter for....uhh, what do they mater for again?

yes, and i'm the retarded one. because i dont get + post counts, because as we all know, we each get a bag of cookies for the most post counts,

Is your post count zero? No. I wasn't talking to you. Posts have been deleted.

[Kaslo]

so it would seem.
Dont you know SMN heals real good!

need them to say something so we can get off this and bitch about the next thing. bitching about something for weeks is getting old new bitch come on!

People have been bitching about Road Warrior's armor lately, you guys could do that!

[Shin Volcano]

The real question is how can you make sure the SMN you invite actually know how to play the job to its full potential? SMN like you are the main reason the job get its bad name. Most good SMN in this game (in fact any support job including RDM, WHM and SCH) are japanese players.

Are you in some serious denail faze? or have a serious mental disability. because you don't seem to retain information well. again, you are saying the SAME THING YET AGAIN
SMN like YOU are the reason very few are good, you are a garbage SMN, you treating smn like its a real healer, once again, you are judging my smn based off your own false way of seeing SMN, that is your problem, you are the bad SMN wetiher you accept that fact or not. Deject pretty much explained WHY SMN will never reach up to WHM rdm or sch, read it again

SMNs who burn MP on bloodpact, let avatar out to melee and refuse to mainheal are not using their MP in the most efficient way. You keep saying SMN can't keep up with WHM and SCH in exp party, that's because you have no idea how to time your BP/resting and make use of bloodpact such as healing ruby II. I have mainhealed 5 decent melees in C.Mire on SMN without any major issue before SE added Elemental Siphon and met countless terrible RDM/WHM/SCH who failed to keep party members alive at the same camp. If you know how to push the job to its limit there is no significant difference between SMN, WHM and SCH healers.

Once again, you are describing a WHM/SMN, THEY CAN'T keep up with WHM, ever, In mire?? IMPS are the easiest damn mob in this game to kill, hell, you dont even NEED a real healer fighting imps, why would you even compare them? we're talking birds, and mamools, exp mobs that can acttualy deal damage and hurt your pt, to where you need quick bursts of healing to suffice, don't judge terrible rdms and whms as all of them, if terrible SMN like you can survive ina party then all hope isn't lost, the fact you even mentioned cadarva mire proves all i needed to know, because very few well exrpainced parties don't even go there.

Some useful tips for players out there who still doubt SMN's ability to mainheal in exp party:
1) Maximise your resting time. SMN and BLM have the highest tier clear mind trait in this game.
2) Timing is very important and should take priority over BP choice etc. Try to use the same Avatar for both rage and ward BPs. For example in lv70+ exp party, use Garuda to do both hastega and predator claws > rest for MP for ~1min > get up summon Fenrir to do Ecliptic howl + Eclipse Bite, rinse and repeat
3) Do not heal melee to full, use cure III and regen to keep them above 50%, use curaga when more than 2 melees needs cure while party is still fighting; curaga II or summon carby to do healing ruby II when mob is about to die.

You greatly insult me here, you should follow your own advice. this is shit i'v aready known when i leveld whm, the healer you are trying to turn smn into i also even have a maximum HMP set, which i doubt you even have. minus relaxing earring because euvies are stingy. but nevertheless, see below.

I have every support job in this game. except cor. i know full well the diffrence between all 4, when you learn the diffrence one day, maybe you'll see the light.

4) Aim to buff and cure party to full right before puller brings in next mob. This gives you plenty of time to rest since PLD will have enough MP to survive the first half of the fight and mob is less likely to use TP moves in the beginning.

WTF? i don't need your useless, shitty advice on how to use a job i'v masterd years ago, while you were talking to carbuncle before it was even unlocked. i know full how to fucking use smn,YOU aren't understanding that SMN CANNOT MATCH UP TO WHM AND RDM, HOW many times doi have to keep saying this? jesus.

You are not going to be an efficient mainhealer if all you try to do is summon avatar, spam BP and cure III on any melee job who takes damage.

To be an effeciant main healer...you change to whm or rdm...

I'm about ready to call the nut house on you, i'm going to TRY to explain this to you one more time, because you're are getting extreamly repetitive and going in nothing but ciricles,

SMN is not close to whm or rdm, DEAL WITH IT, you sir are NOT a good smn, i'm sorry, you know that it has abilites, and you know what menu spells are, that seems to be it, but re-learn the job, don't keep explaing shit tome that i'v already known for years.

I am sick and tired of re-explaing the same thing to you. i'm not asking you to agree with me, i really don't give a shit, i'm trying toshow you that SMN is not any where near comparable to whm or rdm in pretty much every siuation that requires healing, BRDS and COR take care of the buffs meele needs, THEY DONT need your buffs. they need healing, WHICH SMN LACKS this is somthing you need to try to understand, cause i'm sick of you now.

[Shin Volcano]

Is your post count zero? No. I wasn't talking to you. Posts have been deleted.

Oh, i thought you were, sorry, but i was in attack mode, my mistake.

[Spider-Dan]

Callme crazy but i think this from your own words implies that they CAN replace, you saying there is very little diffrence, for there to be very little diffrence, means they can heal near the same damn levels, guess what, THEY CANT, Take away SMN sj and show me that full Potential of a main healing SMN, then take away a WHMs Sj and do the same. and then tell me where that "very little diffrence" comes from.

This is a fun game! Let me try.

You think NIN is a tank job? Take away NIN's SJ and show me that full potential of a main tank NIN, then take away WAR's SJ and do the same.

You think DRG is a good soloist? Take away DRG's SJ and show me that full potential of a solo DRG, then take away DRK's SJ and do the same.

You think RDM is good for incapacitating tough bosses? Take away RDM's SJ and show me that full potential of a stunlocking RDM, then take away BLU's SJ and do the same.

Because playing without subjobs is extremely common and highly relevant.

[Day]

One time I played without a subjob and my mom got all mad and took away the phone for 2 weeks. That was ok cause I didn't use the phone.

[Shin Volcano]

This is a fun game! Let me try.

You think NIN is a tank job? Take away NIN's SJ and show me that full potential of a main tank NIN, then take away WAR's SJ and do the same.

You think DRG is a good soloist? Take away DRG's SJ and show me that full potential of a solo DRG, then take away DRK's SJ and do the same.

You think RDM is good for incapacitating tough bosses? Take away RDM's SJ and show me that full potential of a stunlocking RDM, then take away BLU's SJ and do the same.

Because playing without subjobs is extremely common and highly relevant.

Can i buy some pot from you?

Nin can still hit things with a katana and WS,
DRG can still hit things with a pole arm and WS
RDM can still enfeeble, stun locking is on very rare occassions and for special fights, also, they don't have stun natively.

SMM cannot cast cure without a SJ.

the diffrence i was trying to explain is: All those jobs are still capable of doing there job without a SJ, but much less effective.

RDM does have a native stun, nor do they need it to keep a mob enfeebled.

Thank you because as me, and every other 75 in this game has done, we have all leveld our jobs with no SJ, yes, i had no idea.
anything else you want to show me on the Obvious wheel?

if you going to point out something, please make sure it isn't a dumb one.

IS your IQ high enough to understand what i meant now?

if not







That's just to bad.

[yotevol]

I enjoyed reading it at the beginning... but took a few days off since I was consumed with work.

When did this change from an update discussion to a raging e-peen argument on who is better than who? o,o

Can we have some more discussion on the updates, please?

[Mojo]

I'm a summoner

[Colenzo]

I tank without my subjob all the time on PLD, bitches dont know bout my shihei hardships.

[Shin Volcano]

I enjoyed reading it at the beginning... but took a few days off since I was consumed with work.

When did this change from an update discussion to a raging e-peen argument on who is better than who? o,o

Can we have some more discussion on the updates, please?

Summery: apprently im a bad smn because i don't spam hate building cures, and he is clearly the supirior SMN because he can cast a cure spell and press a job ability to a blood pact.

Also

There is "very little to no diffrence" between SMN, WHM, and RDM, when it comes to supporting according to him

next few pages: me trying to explain to him that that is wrong.
him trying to defend what s not possible. arguments and bad words were ensured.

Taru: "you are a poo smn because you don't agree with me."

Me: "oh ok"

and that's about it.


But if you wish. yes, i think Aoe refresh will be a nice edition, can't wait to see how potent the DBL attack and MAB are. maybe i can really get to enjoy using smn again.