Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Keyln]

i don't see the use in diabolos's favor in exp or merits. your dd generally don't need refresh to hit things, and it won't really be giving you mp considering perp costs.

On the other hand Double Attack+ plus Hastega would have them throwing blows like mad.

[dejet]

Yeah I know, but 0 would be a nice additional buff

Too bad this is just a dream. It would be really nice.

every bst would take this update IF you could save your points up and use 0 for a random use. That be a nice fix that does not waste a ton of time to use good moves. Get lucky use a great move, and then force a good move^^.

On the other hand Double Attack+ plus Hastega would have them throwing blows like mad.

thing is haste + DA are not on the same avatar, this would lead to a low base +DA(prob like 5%)

[Taruking]

i don't see the use in diabolos's favor in exp or merits. your dd generally don't need refresh to hit things, and it won't really be giving you mp considering perp costs.

Refresh your PLD tank. It's going to help your party more than anything else you can do with your SMN (based on what we currrently know about DF). Why do you think ppl prefer RDM over WHM and SCH in exp party?

The most efficient role of SMN in exp party with a PLD tank post Nov update is to serve as mainhealer + refresher. Replace any SMN who insists on playing DD/buff role with a BRD, a COR or another well geared DD job, chances are you will end up with better Exp/hr.

[Kaslo]

Refresh your PLD tank. It's going to help your party more than anything else you can do with your SMN (based on what we currrently know about DF). Why do you think ppl prefer RDM over WHM and SCH in exp party?

The most efficient role of SMN in exp party with a PLD tank post Nov update is to serve as mainhealer + refresher. Replace any SMN who insists on playing DD/buff role with a BRD, a COR or another well geared DD job, chances are you will end up with better Exp/hr.

People have tanks in exp parties? let alone PLD tanks?

[Nevex]

People have tanks in exp parties? let alone PLD tanks?

From 54 to 70, yes, most people do.

[Khajit]

Only because they think they need one but you can get away without a pld from 1~75

[Shin Volcano]

Why is this idiot not banned?

wow, you know, you read my mind, cause when i see 90% of your posts i thought the exact same thing. i doubt mods will ban people you don't like.

the issue is that the majority of summoners, the average players, don't bother to learn about things such as skill modifying buff duration. summoner has had an edge over redmage since that update, it just hasn't been utilized by the common majority. More and more players have summoner leveled, but it's still regarded as a waste to merit skill and i can probably count on one hand the number of ls mates i have that even bother to have a +skill set.

I only mentioned the new update info once, and said it will only further push us ahead of whm, rdm and sch. who knows what exactly it will do, but for a player like me, it most likely means free garuda and fenrir for meriting parties.

Same here, very few SMNs i know bother with, or even understand the benefits of +smn skill set, not knowing that effects ACC and MACC. that is why i't still very hard to find good smns, because most leveld to 75 playing as whm more then a smn, hopefuly this update will try to teach people to be more of a smn and less of a fake healer.

Are you seriously trying to argue what jobs were "intended" to do? Unless you plan on sending this thread through a wormhole to 2004, your latest observation (NIN was not "meant" to tank) is even more pointless than your previous one (SMN cannot mainheal without SJ).

Are you seriously trying to give me useless, pointless examples? bascialy i gave you an eye-for-an-eye. the way you felt about what i posted is the exact same way i felt about yours. and you stilled missed my whole point on what i was trying to say, but it matters not now. i'm not going to bother. ignorance is just bliss at this point.

To Taruking: Basicaly....there is no more point. you can think however you want at this time. there is still nothing new with your posts, and quite frankly i don't even feel like reading them anymore. Goodluck with your "SMN"

[Kaslo]

From 54 to 70, yes, most people do.

Those people may be getting exp, but they are not in an exp party.

[ronin sparthos]

Only because they think they need one but you can get away without a pld from 1~75

The average party is going to want a tank because the average DD knows nothing of defensive JAs or utsu.

If you have a bunch of friends who know what the fuck they are doing and you stick to low VTs or Ronfaure (S) maybe but hell no to a pug PT w/o someone designated as a tank because WARs will let your ass die instead of voking and SAMs are too busy mashing Hasso fulltime.

[Taruking]

People have tanks in exp parties? let alone PLD tanks?

When was the last time you took a job from lv1 to 75?

Job adjustment should be designed to make a less popular job more desirable. Diabolos's favor alone is likely to turn SMN into a popular exp job and help SMN to secure a spot in endgame tank/ BLM party. I honestly do not understand why so many ppl complain about the new SMN JA. I guess NA SMNs are so DD orientated they get upset because the new JA does very little to improve SMN DD capacity or enhance the effect of its melee buffs.

[Kairos]

Yeah that's true. And if you think NA summoners are bad you should see most of the JP summoners. Summoner is a job you might as well not play if you're going to play it average or with mediocrity, and both the NA and JP summoner communities are OVERFLOWING with mediocre and just plain terrible players.

Pup is pretty bad too with so many people playing it running around as /whm everywhere and not even knowing how to set up the puppet. I really wanted them to add the ability to /check automatons, because people would see those pups a mile away who only have 5-10 attachments and tell them to stay their gimp asses out on the campaign field.

[frodnonnag]

Refresh your PLD tank. It's going to help your party more than anything else you can do with your SMN (based on what we currrently know about DF). Why do you think ppl prefer RDM over WHM and SCH in exp party?
\

i was largely talking about the merit party setup at colibri camp. nobody invites pld there since turtling is completely irrelevant and only hurts exp. When the summoner is the only one with an mp bar, it would be better to keep out a different avatar with a damage related buff.

[Kaslo]

Who fights pugs? Are you living in 2005?

And who fights pugs after 50+ (avatar favor+)?

[Khajit]

I think he meant pickup groups(retarded acronym i only know it existed cause i saw it used once). That being said if you seriously are in parties so fucking stupid that they cant understand the concept of subbing nin when asked to to the point it gives you such a weird boner rage for plds you need to sto and solo some FOV or something. That and I know that if i ever transferred servers i'd hate to find a server full of people that retarded.

My experience at ALL levels has been that if you're getting damage enough to think you need a pld then the problem isn't that you need a pld. It's that the other DD are fucking gimp compared to you or don't know how to use their WS. Special exceptions for when you're the only person with enough of a brain to stand behind the mob for the thf when they want to sataws of course but that also implies the other DD refusing to help thier pt by doing something simple. Not only that but if I'm taking hate that much without a pld adding a pld just means i have a pld trying to get hate from me and failing half the time instead of a DD killing the mob faster so that I don't have to take as much damage. It only makes things worse and slower.

By your reasoning we could just have rdm+whm as the mages in the party instead to make the party better when we all know by now that 2 mages together means one could afk and you'd never notice.

[Taruking]

Honestly when was the last time you guys took a job from lv1 to 75? Do a quick search for players lfp from lv50-70, there is a severe shortage of PLD and RDM since they get party invite so fast most of them just rush through to lv75. SMN should become a popular substitue for RDM from lv55-70+ after Nov update.

Meleeburn only works well post lv70 (unless you are fighting VT mobs) - SJ Seigan, Utsusemi:Ni, better gear selection and of course at lv75, job defining merits and weapon skill merits. More and more PLDs are focusing on DD tanking in exp party post lv50. A strong tank allows 2h melees to keep hasso up longer, hence increasing the total damage output. Ppl still prefer exp party with a proper tank job prior to lv70 because it makes the life of healer easier and not all melee enjoy co-tanking with other DD jobs.

i was largely talking about the merit party setup at colibri camp. nobody invites pld there since turtling is completely irrelevant and only hurts exp. When the summoner is the only one with an mp bar, it would be better to keep out a different avatar with a damage related buff.

If you are invited to mainheal in merit party, you should be focusing on healing (+ resting) and use spare MP to buff party members. Your MP will drain fast if you try to keep avatar out for melee buff.

[Keyln]

The most efficient role of SMN in exp party with a PLD tank post Nov update is to serve as mainhealer + refresher. Replace any SMN who insists on playing DD/buff role with a BRD, a COR or another well geared DD job, chances are you will end up with better Exp/hr.

I couldn't disagree with you more. In my experience, the most efficient role of SMN is NOT in the healer role, but in the offensive enhancer role. I've been in Mamool Ja parties where we've broken 25k-30k with chain 200+, and most of what I did was cycle ward pacts (between Hastega, Ecliptic Howl, and Earthen Ward). While I did throw out a cure or two, most of the healing was done by the RDM, and my goal was simply to keep up buffs while keeping my MP up.

Being the main healer, especially to a PLD, is very inefficient for a SMN.

[Taruking]

I couldn't disagree with you more. In my experience, the most efficient role of SMN is NOT in the healer role, but in the offensive enhancer role. I've been in Mamool Ja parties where we've broken 25k-30k with chain 200+, and most of what I did was cycle ward pacts (between Hastega, Ecliptic Howl, and Earthen Ward). While I did throw out a cure or two, most of the healing was done by the RDM, and my goal was simply to keep up buffs while keeping my MP up.

Being the main healer, especially to a PLD, is very inefficient for a SMN.

That's probably because the rest of your party were good. If given the choice I am sure your party members will not hesitate to replace your SMN with another BRD or COR.

If you can't mainheal any exp party on SMN you should quit playing the job full stop.

[Keyln]

That's probably because the rest of your party were good. If given the choice I am sure your party members will not hesitate to replace your SMN with another BRD or COR.

If you can't mainheal any exp party on SMN you should quit playing the job full stop.

So says the guy who wasn't in that party...

Look, in my experience as a SMN, playing the main healer role is "adequete", but as I said before, SMN, or any job with /WHM that isn't SCH, RDM, or WHM, is an inefficient healer. Sure, it might be handy in a pinch, but to be honest, it's not very efficient. And getting anything about 10k+/hr of XP does require a good deal of efficiency.

Be honest with me here. Have you ever been in a party as a SMN "mainhealer", and ever gotten above 10k/hr XP?

[Taruking]

Be honest with me here. Have you ever been in a party as a SMN "mainhealer", and ever gotten above 10k/hr XP?

The real question should be: have you ever wondered why your exp party fail to hit 10k/hr when you are playing SMN "mainhealer"?

After taking RDM, WHM and SMN to lv75, I honestly don't see a huge difference between my WHM and SMN when it comes to exp/hr. As mentioned in my previous posts a lot of players who think they know how to main heal are simply spamming big cure spells and have no idea how to maximise MP efficiency in exp party.

[Keyln]

The real question should be: have you ever wondered why your exp party fail to hit 10k/hr when you are playing SMN "mainhealer"?

You're dodging the question. Have you ever gotten more than 10k/hr playing the SMN "mainhealer"?