Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Hookah]

SMN is a low tier EXP healer, WHM being the top of high tier and RDM being top tier. You're not going to be able to rest with this, meaning yes the job's MP bar will be best served handing out cures here and there but it doesnt change that a RDM's slot is in no way endangered by this. I'd say COR has the biggest thing to worry about, BRD is too top tier along with to come close to being out of place.

I don't think anyone is saying smn is going to replace any of those jobs for anything.

It does make them a less terrible choice for exping, which if you've tried to lvl up a job recently, you would know that's always a good thing.

[Ryko]

I didn't state that SMN was not capable of healing a party, just that it was the dan of the healing world. I mean yes maybe the refresh buff can help things out but smn would still need to divvy up the support role amongst the backline in a way that RDM does not. This is ignoring the fact that damage mitigation is definitely first priority, then damage recovery and elegy+slow is top tier damage mitigation.

I don't think anyone is saying smn is going to replace any of those jobs for anything.

It was implied if not flat out stated by destinye so I responded relevantly.

[Alkar]

SE clearly said last year that we'd be getting a new avatar/s around this time so I don't really see what's wrong with expecting it/them. Besides, Composure's drawback is barely noticeable so I'm not worried about this at all.

[calinz]

A good SMN could and can always main heal any party (ex. Garuda for party Haste, then Carby out while you heal. Don't forget too that we have a VERY power and potent heal in Healing Ruby 2 to use every minute if needed.

Unfortunately it's not really useful unless you already have carby out. Hardly enough time to summon and get in range for it in situations like Dahaks spamming Body Slam, and you trying to Curaga II + Healing Ruby 2... it's just not gonna be quick enough.

[Silenka]

I love smn (so much that I'm willing to argue in forums over it). But this is really about choosing smn over another job for a party slot. Smn does not do anything that another job can't do better and faster. Yes smn can main heal a party, but who cares? I'd rather have a whm or rdm for efficiency. Even with avatar's favor, there's nothing that another job can't do better and most likely with better damage output to boot.

People will almost always choose a cor over a wannabe-cor, people will almost always choose a rdm or whm over an inferior main healer. Aside from people like me who are willing to cut efficiency to have fun with a job that does things in an inferior way to the 'good' party jobs.

[Ryko]

SE clearly said last year that we'd be getting a new avatar/s around this time so I don't really see what's wrong with expecting it/them.

The first word in your sentence doesnt make you see what's wrong with expecting anything? I'm just saying, hope is a far better stance to take than expectation.

I love smn (so much that I'm willing to argue in forums over it). But this is really about choosing smn over another job for a party slot. Smn does not do anything that another job can't do better and faster. Yes smn can main heal a party, but who cares? I'd rather have a whm or rdm for efficiency. Even with avatar's favor, there's nothing that another job can't do better and most likely with better damage output to boot.

People will almost always choose a cor over a wannabe-cor, people will almost always choose a rdm or whm over an inferior main healer.

In the words of homer simpson: "40 seconds? I want it now."

[Nevex]

Claustrum actually has a use now? The world is collapsing.

SMN update looks situational, but decent enough. It's probably going to shine when fighting Tiamat or anywhere where your party members are close each other enough to take benefit from those buffs.

[Ryko]

If youre at tiamat on smn and you're not throwing rages like a boss I would feel worse for smn than I already do.

[Destinye]

As long as there's a reason, they should.

Too bad the majority of crying over shit in this game is for no good reason other than /butthurt and SE not bending over for them.

[Ryko]

Too bad the majority of crying over shit in this game is for no good reason other than /butthurt and SE not bending over for them.

Sup PLD

Bitching definitely affects job updates and tweaks, to the point of making certain jobs so relatively broken that other ones got completely dusted.

Anyone else remember when PLD sucked? SAM? DRG and DRK are still bottom tier comparatively and even they are viable. Damn son.

[Taruking]

SMN is a low tier EXP healer, WHM being the top of high tier and RDM being top tier. You're not going to be able to rest with this, meaning yes the job's MP bar will be best served handing out cures here and there but it doesnt change that a RDM's slot is in no way endangered by this. I'd say COR has the biggest thing to worry about, BRD is too top tier along with to come close to being out of place.

I have played RDM, WHM and SMN to 75. if you know what you are doing there isn't any huge difference between all 3 jobs in exp party.

Ballad + autorefresh + sanction refresh + Diabolos's Favor = 9mp/tic, that's more than enough to cover routine healing provided your party members are competent. Also there is no reason to keep Diabolos out all the time, if PLD MP is good dismiss Diabolos, summon Elementals to use Elemental siphon, throw in hastega and rest a few tic if MP looks good.

[Raen Ryong]

I don't understand why SMNs want a new avatar so much; adding another avatar unless it's god tier (where you'll complain it invalidates your existing avatars) just adds another sidegrade to a broken job.

Fixing the job mechanics as a whole is a far better idea which it appears they are doing, at least from the support side.

Note my knowledge of SMN is painfully lacking, but this seems like a strong step in the right direction.

BST update, I'll ask my sister when she gets back... looks decent from the outset, definitely.

[Soracloud]

Rubbish....

Now I have to wait 6 Goddamn minutes to use a Pets "Big" TP Move...

6 Minutes for CC Stoneskin, 6 Minutes for FF Silence Gas (that will get fully resisted) 6 Minutes for AS 1,000 Needles @ 20K Gil a pop....

Unless Charges are acquired and never lost and Ready uses a 2 minute Timer like Sic then this "Update" for BST is a kick in the balls.

[Ryko]

I have played RDM, WHM and SMN to 75. if you know what you are doing there isn't any huge difference between all 3 jobs in exp party.

Ballad + autorefresh + sanction refresh + Diabolos's Favor = 9mp/tic, that's more than enough to cover routine healing provided your party members are competent. Also there is no reason to keep Diabolos out all the time, if PLD MP is good dismiss Diabolos, summon Elementals to use Elemental siphon, throw in hastega and rest a few tic if MP looks good.

I didn't state that SMN was not capable of healing a party, just that it was the dan of the healing world. I mean yes maybe the refresh buff can help things out but smn would still need to divvy up the support role amongst the backline in a way that RDM does not. This is ignoring the fact that damage mitigation is definitely first priority, then damage recovery and elegy+slow is top tier damage mitigation.

­If everyone is on point of course things run smoothly, the whole point of jobs shining is to be able to pick up the slack should it exist. And let's face it, there's always slack. There's always some NQ dink in your pickup that your low tier smn isnt going to be able to cover for. And the pickup is a given because if it werent about getting invites into some podunk bottom tier 5k/hr party this wouldnt even be an issue.

[Spira]

One thing I already like about Avatar's Favor before its released is Carbuncle's Favor regen, which means I can charge sublimation without having to even bother looking at my HP as long as carby is out when I'm idling or moving about... and without regen gear.

The favors are only available when the avatar is out - this is probably to encourage leaving avatars out instead of Summon>BP>release. And if it were present with avatar dismissed it kinda defeats the purpose of the effect - no avatar present, whose favor is being represented?

One thing for certain is that Diabolos is going to be a real party favourite with BLMs.. Refresh AND Dream Shroud >_>

Shiva's and Leviathan's might be interesting as well. If they affect the avatar giving the favor too, it would mean that their Merit BPs will be more effective than the rest.

As for BST, which hasnt seen much discussion, I can see it being somewhat useful.. but a lot of it depends on the number of charges required for various moves..

The charge time is my biggest concern really.. because it seems like the jug pets start off with 0 charges, so you actually need to wait 6 minutes before your pet can actually do anything strong or useful.. but this is given you're not being spammy with them to begin with..

I can see some good uses in BST LS tho... especially in BCs and stuff...
6 BSTs
Call Beast - Amigo Sabotender
Pop a charge on a Zoolater Hat
Wait 6 Minutes..
go in, Fight -> Ready - 1000 Needles
Easy 6k dmg?

thats how 6 BSTs kill Fenrir Prime isnt it ? lol

[Gergall]

SMN - cool, but like others said what's the downside? All of the other stances either have a downside or an alternate stance. This just seems like something you would keep up 100% of the time no matter what. Might as well just be a job trait.

BST - Being forced into using a jugpet so that you can do one of the "good" (3-charge) TP moves every 6 minutes is not going to help BST at all.

[Nevex]

If youre at tiamat on smn and you're not throwing rages like a boss I would feel worse for smn than I already do.

You could keep Diabolos out for the refresh and use Nether Blast, or you could be in a BLM party using Leviathan's m.acc boost and toss Grand Falls.
Overall less damage but if MP recover/m.acc is decent I don't see why not, it's just another option SMNs will be given.
Unless I missed some part where it says you can't use BPs when using favors.

Oh and I'm curious about the 1k needles deal with Amigo lol... knowing SE they'll just keep Sic command for it to avoid any abuse.

[Ryko]

You could keep Diabolos out for the refresh and use Nether Blast, or you could be in a BLM party using Leviathan's m.acc boost and toss Grand Falls.
Overall less damage but if MP recover/m.acc is decent I don't see why not, it's just another option SMNs will be given.
Unless I missed some part where it says you can't use BPs when using favors.

You can, theyre just going to suck. Taking a power loss against the highest level enemies is unacceptable, just save your MP. SMN is top tier damage on high level NMs, why not take the chance to actually use your avatars to instead play baby sitter to some mages that would be better served with a COR. Lord knows their asses are downright worthless on the biggies otherwise. Kick some ass, dont do that to yourself.

[dejet]

need to do fast math but you could leave diab out with just refresh if it is a 4mp a tick refresh itself. keep him dding on say things like DI giving your pld more MP adding dmg

hes 13mp a tick

3(staff)
2(body)
1(hands)
1 (feet)
1 (ring) <might give us more of a reason to use it now ~_~
1 (auto refresh)
3-4(his refresh)

mak if it gets up to 4 its a free ride without any form of other refresh such as rdm cor or bard.

it adds something to play with tho, depending how strong it is off the bat will depend how much it adds to end game and PTs.

Also I wonder how strong Fenrir's will be, just drop your relic shields now? lol

you could if need be make yourself a *bard* and take the place of a bard or rdm in a pt that has one. This is something that might open us more. Things like DI if your low on rdms you could toss a smn in place and just keep the pet out for that refresh.

I wish they would of made Karura Hachigane for all avatars but meh not goign to happen it break the world.

The effect's potency will gradually increase until the avatar is released, and at its peak, can be expected to reach levels equal to those granted by the corsair's lucky number roll.

maybe this means it lasts after the avatar is called even, and not just with the pet out?

[Kairos]

Anything is better that roar going off in the middle of a bunch of non aggro mobs rather than razor fang... bsts forget how crappy random tp moves can be. They act as if 1000 needles goes off every time they use sic. They'll be lucky to have it used once over needleshot or photosynthesis. Being able to have precision and chose TP moves suddenly allows for intentional timed enfeebling or damage moves rather than the usual sic's

"OK I'Ma ROLLING THE DICE, LETS SEE WHAT CARRIE DOES!"

Also I wonder how strong Fenrir's will be, just drop your relic shields now? lol

That's such a terrible thought lol