Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Kaslo]

Wat

I'd rather my pld be alive than have an extra couple tics of mp at the expense of mine (which I should be curing him with). I'd take a whm for an xp party over a smn having to keep diabolos out full time any day. Cure 3 really doesn't cut it sometimes. Refresh is not everything, although it is quite important. But if you - the main healer - is losing curing mp in order to refresh the tank - there's something wrong there. Constant cure3 bombing takes more mp than well placed cure 4s or (assuming a high level party) 5s.

Now, I'm not saying that Avatar's Favor won't have its uses, it certainly will, but not very many. Atm I can't think of anything endgame I would rather do on smn with avatar's favor (and thus an attack penalty) than I would on cor.

A good PLD doesn't need more than Cure 3 support in an EXP party. You must suck.

[dejet]

eh carbun free post 55 with regen aoe heals and cure 3 should be fine healing. It lets you attack with something and if you have a smn+ rdm it is good. 14 hp a tick (if its as good as dnc roll with a dnc in the pt) can kick ass. Think about that regen 3 full time with a free pet LOL. In a healing roll it could be great.

[Silenka]

After next update SMN will be equipped with Diabolos's Favor, hastega and elemental siphon, the only 2 downside are they won't be able to use all 3 abilities freely and sit down to rest when avatar is out.

It would go something like this:

Pop hastega on the pt

Pop diabolos' favor on the pt

Watch the refresh effect start as shit and gradually move up (amount is probably dependent on level) meaning you'd be better off with a rdm anyway

Oh, by the way you'll have to stand within the mob's TP range to get the refresh effect yourself, seeing as it will be a relatively small-area effect around the avatar

Desummon and be without refresh as you do other buff pacts or siphon

idk man

[Ryko]

A good PLD doesn't need more than Cure 3 support in an EXP party. You must suck.

A good paladin can basically function off of high tier regens and minimal curing in an exp party, either way the WHM is more efficient because either youre fighting mobs where the WHM is more congruent to higher xp/hr or you're fighting mobs where the WHM's top tier cures are necessary. Flip the coin, either way you lose.

[Not Kuno]

Nice changes although I have a feeling Bst got screwed.

Only slight dissapointment is that Garuda + Fenrir suck, since they are best for solo, and the fact that nobody gives acc bonus. Other then that it's fine.

[dejet]

for a zerg drop the bard throw in a fully buffed up Ifrit or Ramuh?

[Ryko]

I'm also forced to point out that the other support jobs have something SMN doesn't, the ability to choose 2 different buffs per member in the party (granted it's more like per section). A cor or a BRD can have up to, what, 4 different buffs running without a hitch on different sections? 5 if they really feel like trying? Keep rockin that low tier single avatar to try to catch up brah.

for a zerg drop the bard throw in a fully buffed up Ifrit or Ramuh?

Not a bad idea if you dont consider the fact that kclub owners would be pissed as fuck if you threw up ifrit.

[Raen Ryong]

If you throw Ifrit on a Kclub zerg, they won't be happy

[Alkar]

Wow, some of you are just taking this out of proportion like lots of idiots did back when Composure was announced. What about actually waiting for the update instead of saying that this is complete crap and SMNs shouldn't even bother?
For all we know the damage reduction will be barely noticeable and won't effect most of our pacts. Let's not forget that the ability also reduces perpetuation cost, something that you all seem to be forgetting because it simply wouldn't help your bitching.

[Silenka]

A good paladin can basically function off of high tier regens and minimal curing in an exp party, either way the WHM is more efficient because either youre fighting mobs where the WHM is more congruent to higher xp/hr or you're fighting mobs where the WHM's top tier cures are necessary. Flip the coin, either way you lose.

This.
I knew I worded that post poorly, but there it is. Sometimes kinda crappy PLDs (but mostly hate-happy DDs) need high tier cures due to a really hard hit by an xp mob. I've main healed as whm and smn all the way up and I greatly prefer healing on whm (even though I enjoy smn vastly more as a job). WHM is just better at it, it's made for it, it has more tools at its disposal if shit goes bad such as repose and high tier curagas. To even compare SMN's to WHM's healing power (or even SCH, really, since all it lacks is haste) is foolhardy, shiny new ability or no.

[Draylo]

Eh I was kinda hoping for a bigger boost towards DDing on SMN not becoming a BRD/COR ;/. That said, they are pretty decent additions. If they affect the avatar I wonder if Ifrit will be better for 70 pact on most normal mobs and if shiva will be best with maxed heavenly strike with the favor.

[Pesan]

The SMN update looks to have promise. Just have to wait and see how the benefits weigh against the downside. IE: Base amount of the 'bonuses'/time taken to goto full benefit vs. amount ava is "gimped" while favor is up/mp usage in order to keep them out (aka is it worthwhile) ect ect.

The BST update again shows a small benefit while still avoiding the job most entirely. Yes i do like the benefits that it can bring. Controlled tp attacks are always nice. Problem one is that this can possibly make price of certain jugs go up in price. Problem two is that it still WONT make ppl craft them for bst's to use. And it's still not known if u build up 3 'charges' if you can only use one or two to gain the TP attack you want or if it's the "sux2beu" approach. Other thing is that this has a very limited usage in end game as well in the lvl'n process. Looks to me like "Here play with your new toy while we still try and figure out wtf to do with this job."

[dejet]

Ok dont throw them into the K club pt ~_~ hit up the war/sam pt.

[Taruking]

Sup regen 2 and 3. Again, damage mitigation is the best tool for MP efficiency. If the PLD can go on relying on your low tier cures with their MP bar to cover the difference the PLD can easily function in a much more efficient manner with the HP/tic provided from regen with very minimal curing on the WHM's part.

RDM don't have either of them too. Just because a job doesn't have access to cure IV or cure V doesn't make them less efficient at healing in exp party. It does matter in endgame setting cuz sometime it's important to throw out big cure spell to keep tanks alive, in exp setting provided your party is competent, SMN is more likely to keep chain going after next update.

Extra 4mp/tic will make a huge difference to PLD's performance, and more than enough to compensate for lack of higher tier Cure spells. If someone needs to cast Cure IV, it'll better be PLD than your mainhealer.

[Ryko]

RDM don't have either of them too.

Non-sequitur. I hate to be the bearer of the obvious, but Summoner isnt Red Mage. We were discussing SMN and WHM, RDM shits on both so hard when it comes to MP efficiency that they don't need high tier regens to be top tier EXP healers.

And again, every job is capable if everyone is on their game. A job's ability to excel unfortunately works under the obvious unavoidable fact that if you're bargain binning for parties, that isn't likely.

[dejet]

calling it now -5 prep on a belt for smn with the new mini thing coming out. forcing every smn in the world to get it if they dotn want to be*gimp*

[Alkar]

Sorry but RDM is not even close to being the top "Mp efficient" mage in this game. SCH and WHM/SCH win. Convert doesn't make RDM MP efficient, being able to do everything RDM does and not needing it does (WHM/SCH of course).

[Shin Volcano]

RDM don't have either of them too. Just because a job doesn't have access to cure IV or cure V doesn't make them less efficient at healing in exp party. It does matter in endgame setting cuz sometime it's important to throw out big cure spell to keep tanks alive, in exp setting provided your party is competent, SMN is more likely to keep chain going after next update.

Extra 4mp/tic will make a huge difference to PLD's performance, and more than enough to compensate for lack of higher tier Cure spells. If someone needs to cast Cure IV, it'll better be PLD than your mainhealer.

Wrong, Higher tier Cure DO help, iv seen many situations where a cure 3 was thrown off only to have that person die anyway because it WASNT ENOUGH a gradual mp recovery isnt going to save somone getting beat down by a bad combination of say 2 critcal hits an a imediate TP move that also is a physical hit there is no reasn a smn should be main healing a PLD if the pld runs out of MP he's pretty screwed, or you have to use alot of down time to rest.

Im guessing next you'll say SMN takes the place of all healers in merit pts?

[Silenka]

Extra 4mp/tic will make a huge difference to PLD's performance, and more than enough to compensate for lack of higher tier Cure spells. If someone needs to cast Cure IV, it'll better be PLD than your mainhealer.

Do you really think that SE will be nice enough to give diabolos's favor 4 mp/tick right off the bat? One, you have to build up to that over a span of several minutes, and two, in parties lower than, say, 70, I doubt it will go past 3/tick which is already what a RDM will be doing, but better and more instantaneously.

Honestly the big beef I have with this ability isn't trying to get SMN to replace other jobs in parties. It's that this ability is supposed to encourage summoners to leave their avatars out to melee, but the damage output with this ability up will undoubtedly be cut by a decent amount even though the cost of keeping it out will be cheaper.

If they were trying to give Smns a reason to keep their avatars out, they did it in a piss-poor fashion.

[dejet]

Sorry but RDM is not even close to being the top "Mp efficient" mage in this game. SCH and WHM/SCH win. Convert doesn't make RDM MP efficient, being able to do everything RDM does and not needing it does (WHM/SCH of course).

for exp pts it does lol. refresh (3/mp a tick not some gimp 250 sotor that takes 5min to get)

A lot of the time people seem to forget rdm can sub sch too for stags/light arts just not get a 4mp a tic regen thats the only thing that rdm loses to sch sub.