What's Better?

[Cream Soda]

You're assuming everyone has full merits in polearm or something? I have 4, personally.

Since you didn't specify, and was making it out to be a general statement, are you assuming that EVERYONE is in that situation and that nobody has 8 pole merits?

I still don't see how you are ending up only 4 acc short unless you're 8/8 pole merits w/ fulltime Hasso.

Bingo, exactly the situation when it comes to me.

[FailureMidgard]

Since you didn't specify, and was making it out to be a general statement, are you assuming that EVERYONE is in that situation and that nobody has 8 pole merits?

Bingo, exactly the situation when it comes to me.

And you use Ancient Torque? Otherwise I still see you 3.5% acc under cap. And do you have Hollow as well? I assumed you didn't, so that's more acc loss.
Are you ignoring everything else you're giving up also? You give up 10 dex, 15attack on back, 7attack on neck if you could get Love.

Let's assume you have your merits and fulltime Hasso is ok.

From my 363 acc number, +7 merits, +8 back, +2 toreador, +10 hasso, +10 usu is +37, puts you at 400 acc exactly. Ancient Torque would be another 2, if you use that, which it seems you must for your ~2% under cap.

But what did you give up for this? If I assume fulltime Hasso in my setup, I can drop 12 accuracy: Flame Ring, PCC>Love Torque, Forager's>Cerb+1 (I'm doing this because the cost is about the same), Hollow>6attk earring.

So you have 402 accuracy, I have 409 still.
You have 60 attack and 5str from food. 3str head, 5str 10 attack leg, 4 dex back, 2 dex ear.
I have 5str ring, 15 attack back, 7 attack neck, 6 attack earring, 2% haste, 5 attack glove, 10dex leg, 1 dex neck

Net, I have 2.5% acc, 2% haste, 5dex(crit).
You have 8 str, 37 attack.

Since we're assuming fulltime Hasso, that's 45 haste pregear, 19 on gear for you for 64 before the 2%. 2.778>2.941 is 5.87% increase.
2.5/92.5 is 2.7% increase.

Tomoe is a r9 weapon, 75 base str for hume sam/war with 5/5 str, my setup has +22str for 97 total, putting fSTR2 at 8 (8.5). Yours is 10. This is a difference of 2/(97+8) = 1.9% increase to TP damage only.
Your attack of 37+6=43 net. I see +49 attack on my set pre-STR, putting attack at 256+49+10+72=387 pre buffs, double minuet (2 brd party) is +124 attack, putting you at 511 pre buffs. 43/511 = 8.4% increase in attack, is ~10% increase in TP damage only.

So far, I guarantee you my setup is winning since both increases I have listed are to all damage. You don't have >50% TP damage. At 50% TP damage, your 10% becomes 5% to all, and your 1.9 becomes .95% to all, which is obviously less than 5.87 and 2.7.
If you want to get into WS sets, we can, it will come down to me having more mods, and you having more attack though.

[Cream Soda]

"I still see you 3.5% acc under cap."

There are two types of birds, I assumed 50% pop rate on each kind and averaged the acc between the 2.

"putting you at 511 pre buffs. 43/511 = 8.4% increase in attack, is ~10% increase in TP damage only."
Except this isn't gear that we can macro in and out, the food is going to be applied to ws dmg as well, though it won't be as much of an increase in in the TP phase, my dmg from the food most certainly doesn't apply to tp only

[FailureMidgard]

"I still see you 3.5% acc under cap."

There are two types of birds, I assumed 50% pop rate on each kind and averaged the acc between the 2.

"putting you at 511 pre buffs. 43/511 = 8.4% increase in attack, is ~10% increase in TP damage only."
Except this isn't gear that we can macro in and out, the food is going to be applied to ws dmg as well, though it won't be as much of an increase in in the TP phase, my dmg from the food most certainly doesn't apply to tp only

I guess averaging the 2 birds is fair, since I'm definitely over cap on the lower level ones.

Right, but the calculation I did was TP phase only, we'd need separate sets there. You will have more attack on WSes than me, but either the margin won't be as large or I'll have more mods than you, like I said.

[Cream Soda]

While this may be true, would only make a diff for pts I know I'm going to dominate. For competitive parsing, when I actually have competition, I go for Csub/Yellow Curry bun

[Suit and Tie]

Full Ares is top dog for Catastrophe and not much else iirc.

Thought a mixed set of Ares and Onyx beats full Ares for Catastrophe?

[dawdr]

Are you completely negating the TP/WS split here? 9% base damage, then assuming you only have 33% of your damage as WS (seems way too low), becomes only a 6% increase in total damage. This isn't counting your -acc, -crit. 3 haste at 50% haste is a 6% increase in swings. So +12 str is about equal to 3% haste if you're assuming a 33% WS split (on super low base dmg weapons only, want to make sure anyone reading this doesn't get this idea for 2h). Sadly Alky is 11 str vs 3haste, 6dex, and either acc or attack. Also, @ 51% haste before glove, the 3% haste takes a small lead, and 33% WS split seems insanely low to me, but I'm not too familiar with how a thief parses, but, you can't even use a straight WS/TP split, because there's no way you're solo SA or TAing in Alkys. I think naked would do more damage. So we're actually looking at the WS:SA/TAlessTP ratio.

For the record, 33% for weapon skills is pretty much in the right ballpark if you're talking about merit Thief, and it's about the same for melee and Sneak and Trick Attacks as well, provided you have a party that cooperates with you. I think I usually run closer to 30%/35%/35% (respectively) myself, but this is what I'd think the general range for Thief goes like. For whatever reason the general perception of Thief's damage is spike-style, but it's more of a DOT-style than most assume.

As to the fun of fSTR on Thief though, and on the hands specifically, you'd probably be better served using something like Enkidu's Mittens. While you'd only get one level of fSTR, you'd gain ten accuracy over Alkyoneus's (and three more than the Homam option) along with a swing of ten dexterity for however much that would up your critical hit rate.

Realistically though, there just aren't a lot of places where you can throw on strength gear on Thief and call it day. All you can really get away with is Rajas Ring, whatever is on your backpiece, and on the body if you're using Enkidu's Harness, Rogue's Vest +1, or Mirke Wardecores . Those new Setanta's Ledelsens could maybe work into this thinking, too, as I think about it. It does make me think about what food I use sometimes, though, whether I'm better served with the (sometimes) higher attack from my Blackened Frogs or something like a Yellow Curry Bun for those times when Marinara Pizza isn't a good option.

[FailureMidgard]

For the record, 33% for weapon skills is pretty much in the right ballpark if you're talking about merit Thief, and it's about the same for melee and Sneak and Trick Attacks as well, provided you have a party that cooperates with you. I think I usually run closer to 30%/35%/35% (respectively) myself, but this is what I'd think the general range for Thief goes like. For whatever reason the general perception of Thief's damage is spike-style, but it's more of a DOT-style than most assume.

As to the fun of fSTR on Thief though, and on the hands specifically, you'd probably be better served using something like Enkidu's Mittens. While you'd only get one level of fSTR, you'd gain ten accuracy over Alkyoneus's (and three more than the Homam option) along with a swing of ten dexterity for however much that would up your critical hit rate.

Realistically though, there just aren't a lot of places where you can throw on strength gear on Thief and call it day. All you can really get away with is Rajas Ring, whatever is on your backpiece, and on the body if you're using Enkidu's Harness, Rogue's Vest +1, or Mirke Wardecores . Those new Setanta's Ledelsens could maybe work into this thinking, too, as I think about it. It does make me think about what food I use sometimes, though, whether I'm better served with the (sometimes) higher attack from my Blackened Frogs or something like a Yellow Curry Bun for those times when Marinara Pizza isn't a good option.

When I said 33%, I meant 33% melee non SA, 66% WS split, ignoring solo SA/TA. The numbers you just said are closer to 50/50. And no, the haste still wins. fSTR is really not worth it, still. It's basically never worth it, people just like to pretend it is. It's nice when you get it for "free", but it's not going to beat haste on normal melee swings.

[tsaroth816]

No question Cuchy belt is better for thf. Unstacked WS, sa+ws, and solo SA. So it gets plenty of use.

Cool, I wasn't sure if losing 5str was good. Any possible augment on Warwolf that would push it ahead?

Skadi vs HQ heca hands? Would never use Skadi. What do you think of AF1+1 hands for TA+WS Shamaya?

If attack is so great, Cuch vs Foragers on SA+WS?

[Martinius]

this is a purely theoretical question, since obviously march/march or march/minuet is more effective.

but...

fighting armored chariot, his acc is utter crap. would it be worthwhile to swap out the 2nd march or minuet in favor of mambo? if your evasion is high enough, i'd think that most of the dmg taken would just be from the tp moves.

edit: balls. wrong thread... so to reword:

what's better? minuet or mambo? :3

[Wolfknight]

this is a purely theoretical question, since obviously march/march or march/minuet is more effective.

but...

fighting armored chariot, his acc is utter crap. would it be worthwhile to swap out the 2nd march or minuet in favor of mambo? if your evasion is high enough, i'd think that most of the dmg taken would just be from the tp moves.

edit: balls. wrong thread... so to reword:

what's better? minuet or mambo? :3

depends if your tanks are both full usukane mnks or sams, it could be worth while if you were low on healing and timing out wasn't an issue. Obviously more support and less time makes a DD buff much more favorable, so comes down to time vs mp I guess.

[mdkuser]

this is a purely theoretical question, since obviously march/march or march/minuet is more effective.

but...

fighting armored chariot, his acc is utter crap. would it be worthwhile to swap out the 2nd march or minuet in favor of mambo? if your evasion is high enough, i'd think that most of the dmg taken would just be from the tp moves.

edit: balls. wrong thread... so to reword:

what's better? minuet or mambo? :3

MP is never an issue with a bard, so 2x march.

[pchan]

this is a purely theoretical question, since obviously march/march or march/minuet is more effective.

but...

fighting armored chariot, his acc is utter crap. would it be worthwhile to swap out the 2nd march or minuet in favor of mambo? if your evasion is high enough, i'd think that most of the dmg taken would just be from the tp moves.

edit: balls. wrong thread... so to reword:

what's better? minuet or mambo? :3

Depends on what tank you use, and their gear ; with full usu on monk I evade about half of MR (see my sig). Also I believe that if you don't eat pizza, march madrigal is better for this boss (eva equivalent to a MMJ infiltrator I think).

[Severance]

Thought a mixed set of Ares and Onyx beats full Ares for Catastrophe?

Correct

Stan tried Full Ares .v. various mixes and ended with - FFXIAH.com.

[Zatho]

For the people good with math.
Hollow/beta earring Vs the 8 agi set earrings for TP on rng.
Also how do the new 8 agi set stack against 2 str earrings for slug shot? Ty for the math numbers, always appreciated.

[evilpaul]

What's better (for overall damage) my current nuking set with Mahatma legs - FFXIAH.com (Sorc's belt/Obi and HQ staff in the two slots missing) or MAB+4 on the Shantotto dragon pants of unspellableness?

[Hitoseijuro]

What's better (for overall damage) my current nuking set with Mahatma legs (Sorc's belt/Obi and HQ staff in the two slots missing) or MAB+4 on the Shantotto dragon pants of unspellableness?

Dragon pants should be better, they are slightly less on damage vs Morrigans slops

[Vodou]

For the people good with math.
Hollow/beta earring Vs the 8 agi set earrings for TP on rng.
Also how do the new 8 agi set stack against 2 str earrings for slug shot? Ty for the math numbers, always appreciated.

My spreadsheet says:

TP: hollow / fenrir (night) > set > beta / hollow

SS: 2xtriumph > set


assuming racc not capped on tp and ofc when fenrir is active

[Cpt.Subligar]

assuming capped acc, perdu volgue or erlking's with 97 dmg and 3 str?

[Darlantan]

If you can use the extra acc from Perdu to change other piece of gear with accuracy to haste or any other valuable stat, Perdu setup should be slightly better. If you cant make any trades, I would figure 1 dmg and 3 str will beat 8 attack, but depends on the buffs, target and such.