What's Better?

[FailureMidgard]

I'm more curious about
_ hit not withstanding does sword strap always beat out pole grip?

Yes, unless you're doing something like a zerg planning to use Meiyko.


As for the other stuff...dusk+1 is paying 3mil for a few attack, and it's worth noting that even in merits, pizza wont cap you on all mobs if you start dropping usu feet/etc.

[pchan]

Yes, unless you're doing something like a zerg planning to use Meiyko.


As for the other stuff...dusk+1 is paying 3mil for a few attack, and it's worth noting that even in merits, pizza wont cap you on all mobs if you start dropping usu feet/etc.

fuma

[mdkuser]

I'm more curious about
_ hit not withstanding does sword strap always beat out pole grip?

if it doesnt break your current x build, sword strap is, worse case, with huge haste buffs ( ~66%), equal to 1% haste, and otherwise ( less haste buffs) better than 1% haste. on the other hand, 2% DA will generally be less than 1% haste ( with decent buffs).

[FailureMidgard]

fuma

You may want to learn to read. I didn't say its 3mil for 1% haste, I said it's 3mil for a few attack. This is implying dusk over fuma.

I'm all for dropping Ace's for Turban when you're capped, which pizza helps you do, my point is you're barely riding whats needed for MMJ ninjas, so you either need to be using a different set on them, or realize you're losing damage at times. Furthermore, depending on other slots, you can definitely drop under accuracy cap vs other mobs too.

Ace's is 7acc:1haste.
This is ~7acc:.5 haste or less.

[Meat]

ok thx, I'm never without a cor and dbl marches, guess i gotta pick up a sword strap. Unless the swordstrap breaks my 5 hit with avec cor. hmmm

[azagarth]

ok got discussing this today with a friend about relics. We where talking about which if ever we would upgrade. I found i really have no clue which I would go after so i started to compare stuff. So my question is which relic be best to get? I will list the pros ive crossed when thinking about it, but all leave me no further in which i would like most, and i havent had personal experience to much with any of them, just few times but all by semi gimps; either in gear or playstyle. I also could care less about meripo play because once I would have a relic i should have capped merits too, meaning the things I would be using these on would be endgame events, aka dyna, limbus, znm (pw), scnm, sea/sky, ein, ks99s, salvage, and well you get the idea lol.... traditional endgame stuff.

h2h: best tanking wep for mnk, be fun for solo play, but i also probably would not get to go mnk to most events as a lot of them we tend to go mage heavy. small dmg upgrade too compared to other relics.

gkt: best gkt by far, but i hear kaiten suffers on alot of endgame mobs to where some will end up gekkoing anyhow making this small upgrade for dmg if what i hears true. also im told polearm for a lot of events will still be able to keep up in places you would kaiten over gekko anyhow? is this true?

scythe: This seems neat to me. Its dmg isnt going to make you uber, ive xped with alot of apocs for example and they barely do more then regular scythe bc of guilos dmg over catas. But thats for xp, no clue how that translates into endgame where gs is usually used (but i have sam so no real point going drk here if it was to use gs). What is cool about this weapon is the drain aspect to me, lets you tank stuff endgame easily from what i have seen, meaning that while it not the best dmg out there it does change drk alot, in a fun way.

bow: costs a shiton more then other relics, nearly double with some prices on my server now, 6/12/15-16. but besides that this thing just changes sam into a beast. Not sure what events it does great on endgame wise, but i assume it does good at all? will it outdo hagun endgame wise? Obviously rng gets a boost from it but im told by alot they like gun more, even one who has both. so if this didnt do better for sam then gkt at endgame it kinda be useless for me since i dont plan play rng to often.

these are kinda the ones i been considering most since i tend to play these jobs the most. Sam i play around 80% of the time, mnk about the rest (but id play this 100% if i could), but i know apoc would change that since drk with it gets to tank alot which be cool. so which you guys think is better?is there another relic that im overlooking that rocks, that is a weapon (not fan of shield and we have horns).

[Meat]

Gaxe and Bow are easily the best 2 dd relics, bow having a bit more versatility and survivability

[azagarth]

gaxe really? Person i know who has one told me different XD, said barely was an upgrade;; i been lead astray! WHat makes it so good? I havent looked into gaxe much since im not a war XD

[pchan]

You may want to learn to read. I didn't say its 3mil for 1% haste, I said it's 3mil for a few attack. This is implying dusk over fuma.

I'm all for dropping Ace's for Turban when you're capped, which pizza helps you do, my point is you're barely riding whats needed for MMJ ninjas, so you either need to be using a different set on them, or realize you're losing damage at times. Furthermore, depending on other slots, you can definitely drop under accuracy cap vs other mobs too.

Hagun, pole grip, black tathlum
Turban, Ancient Torque, brutal, hollow
Usukane hamaraki, dusk, toreador's, rajas
Cuchulain's (lol), swift, Byakko, fuma

= 43 acc, 39 dex

so with 70 base DEX you'll get 406 accuracy (with cap merits)
pizza +1 makes it 450

You cap on level 83 infiltrators (need 448 ), yay for finding a use for cuchulain's. The level 82 infiltrator requires 439 accuracy, so you can drop 11 accuracy even from the above set and have a set working for 20/21 types of MMJs -including lurkers due to this nice song, madrigal.

Ace's is 7acc:1haste.
This is ~7acc:.5 haste or less.

It's 2% DA and 1% haste vs. 3% delay 7 attack (since acc is irrelevant when using pizza)

Assuming double marches, haste, you go from 54% to 55% haste

1% haste is therefore 2.22% global increase in damage
2% is DA is not much but :
- with /war and brutal 1.15>1.17 is 1.74% increase in melee DoT damage
- since double attack on gekko don't get 1.9 pdif on second hit is like 1% increase in average WS damage (correct me on that)
- DA will increase WS frequency, but not when it procs on WS or when it procs on last hit, which leaves us with 4 hits out of 6 so 1.74*(4/6)=1.16% increase in WS DoT

If your melee damage is 35% and ws damage is 65%, the new melee will be 35*1.0174=35.609 and the new ws is 65*(1+1.74*(4/6) /100 )*1.01=66.411, total : 102.02 so 2.02% increase

so 1% haste and 2% DA ends up being 1.0222*1.0202= +4.28% global damage.


Now for 3% delay : (450/(1-0.54))/(450*0.97/(1-0.54))=1.0309
For the 7 attack : only good for DoT, which is assumed 35%. MMJ have around 340 def, I'll assume dia3 because I say so, level +7 on average, and TP ing with ~450 attack
pdif( att=457, def=340*0.85, 7)/pdif( att=450, def=340*0.85, 7)=1.024
The new total is (35*1.024+65)*1.0309=103.95, with a COR or 2nd BRD it's alot less.


===> dusk ledelsens +1 > Fuma > Usukane Sune-ate

also : dusk +1/ speed belt / hasso will obviously greatly increase the difference, which I didn't assume there.

[lolwut]

Goliard Cuffs vs Yigit Gages for nuking on Rdm.

Mab+2 and M Acc+4 vs 5 Int

[ICilla_Dark]

What is better to Sneak Attack Ws in when using Tachi: Gekko
Justice Torque or a Snow Gorget?

[Byrthnoth]

It depends on what TP you go at and how good your WS gear is.

What is your STR total for Gekko as SAM/THF?

[Cream Soda]

I don't see how J torque would ever win. The max you can get out of it is 6 DMG (4 from WSC 2 from Fstr).
Your total DMG would have to be less than 60 to get less than 6 from gorget.

[Byrthnoth]

Err... well kinda. I also doubt that Justice Torque would ever win.

However, a 300TP Gekko (or 200TP Hagun Gekko) has an fTP of 2.5, so +.1 fTP is actually only a 4% (2.6/2.5) increase in damage. So a <150 base damage Gekko would prefer 6 damage from J-torque to Gorget not factoring in the J-torque Atk boost. However, if your WS gear is good enough you can pretty much assume fSTR is going to be capped and then J-torque loses more ground and probably isn't worth it. I wouldn't really have considered this, but he mentioned Sneak Attack so I assumed he was waiting and probably ending up with lots of TP.

In the end, no one laughs at a SAM WSing in a Gorget.

[Cream Soda]

Let's just say your base DMG is 150.

300 tp gekko
150 x 2.5 = 375
150 x 2.6 = 390

390-375 = +15 DMG
+15 > +6 >.>

[Byrthnoth]

6*2.5 = 15

However, it should be noted that Vegetto was calculating that 6 rounding everything in favor of J-torque, and he's actually right as far as it being a bad idea to use. 3 is a more realistic expectation of a damage boost from J-torque in most situations (.83*.75*5=3.11).

[Cream Soda]

Edit: k gotcha

[FailureMidgard]

Pretty sure if JTorque is winning, you don't have a JTorque. It takes little to nothing for a Gorget to win out.

[Dragir]

SA-Cannonballin':
- Maat's Cap (0 DEF, 7 STR, 7 VIT) or Mirage Keffiyeh (24 DEF, Blue Magic Skill +5, 3 VIT)
- 301 Blue Magic skill without Mirage Keffiyeh.

...wut sez BGmathz™?!

[Yugl]

SA-Cannonballin':
- Maat's Cap (0 DEF, 7 STR, 7 VIT) or Mirage Keffiyeh (24 DEF, Blue Magic Skill +5, 3 VIT)
- 301 Blue Magic skill without Mirage Keffiyeh.

...wut sez BGmathz™?!

The skill shouldn't bring you to another tier on BLU Magic base DMG, so it really becomes 7STR+4VIT v 24DEF. Though the precise effect of DEF on Cannonball isn't out yet, I'm willing to bet that Maat's Cap wins.