What's Better?

[Nightfyre]

It's my understanding that Tentacle Sushi has a cap on the amount of accuracy it provides (otherwiki claims 18 ), whereas Dorado and most other sushis do not. Use Dorado.

EDIT: Yugl, Pchan isn't saying WS in Fuma. The Fuma math was done under the assumption that the Fuma user doesn't have Usu feet and is therefore WSing in a different piece. Denali, Setanta's, whatever. Therefore TP from WS is very much relevant. Not saying he was right to do so since that may or may not be true for the given situation, but his reading comprehension comes out ok on this one.

[FailureMidgard]

Seriously? Yea guys, let's assume the guy is WSing in fumas and then we can prove Usu wins, YEEHAW! I'm not even arguing with which is better, I think 9 times out of 10 (or more), you can make use of the accuracy on Usu feet, so who cares. I'm just saying that your math is fucking stupid -every- time you post it, because you make the most inane assumptions at the start, then use it to prove your point, which in the end proves nothing at all.

Past that, why the fuck are you adding half a hit with this last punch bullshit?

average number of hit required : (100-(2*5.4+6*1.1)*0.95)/5.1=16.36
since rounds comme with aproximately 2 melee hits, the last punch will be accompanied with a second punch (TP excess) : 16.86 hits
with 5% DA and 15% KA you average 2.25*0.95=2.1375 hits per round.

16.36 average hits required, at 95% accuracy, that was 16.36/.95=17.22 swings, at an average rate of 2.25 swings per round, that is 17.22/2.25=7.65 rounds.

With 15.17, 15.17/.95=15.96 swings on average. 15.96/2.25=7.09 rounds on average.

If you want to account for TP excess, then you round up to the nearest attack round. Adding 1/2 a hit (not even 1/2 a round) seems stupid even for you, unless I'm completely missing something.

[Hyriu]

PLD/NIN Food:

1. Dorado sushi

or

2. Tentacle sushi


if it matters, I don't have brutal ear and rajas, but I do have joytoy and atonement.

Did you even read the description of those items?

Tentacle Sushi caps at 18 accuracy.

[Yugl]

EDIT: Yugl, Pchan isn't saying WS in Fuma. The Fuma math was done under the assumption that the Fuma user doesn't have Usu feet and is therefore WSing in a different piece. Denali, Setanta's, whatever. Therefore TP from WS is very much relevant. Not saying he was right to do so since that may or may not be true for the given situation, but his reading comprehension comes out ok on this one.

I already noted in this 4a. Note that FM criticized him because of his assumption. I'm demonstrating that this assumption of his is what is getting flamed. The assumption is irrelevant of the whether the player WSs in Fumas, Denali, Setantas, or other gear. The assumption FM was criticizing is that the player using Fumas does not have Usukane feet. This is a flawed assumption to make since the original question (Other page) did not mention this restriction.

[Nightfyre]

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm dumb.

[Meat]

PLD/NIN Food:

1. Dorado sushi

or

2. Tentacle sushi


if it matters, I don't have brutal ear and rajas, but I do have joytoy and atonement.

squid, it's the cheapest

[Meat]

Sentinel Shield vs any other endgame shield in a situation where atonement is viable(ie the only time to use pld tanks)

[pchan]

Even if they don't have Usukane, WSing in Fumas is stupid anyways. Do we agree or disagree? If we agree, see 3a. If we disagree, see 3b.
.

Where did I say WS with fuma again ? All I assumed is no store TP on the feet which covers all options besides usukane. Go away. Now I'll ask you what are those [unknown] feet your are ws with beside usukane that give 7 store TP. Secondly there are situations where usukane will not be the best WS feet...

You know, you could ALSO have pointed out that I didn't consider Usukane body which will give different values for average number of hits required ; last I checked he didn't mention if he has Usu body or even mirke or even rajas. So I have to put myself in a situation.

Not that it matters, it has almost no effect on the outcome beside how much better usukane is. The %increase from going from usu body+fuma to usu body+usu feet is better than the case I considered.

Past that, why the fuck are you adding half a hit with this last punch bullshit?

Because you know, there is this wonderful job called MNK (which you don't know shit about obviously) where attack rounds come with multiple hits. The last hit to reach 100 TP is inside an attack round, and due to the randomness of accuracy, double attack and kick attack you can find equiprobable situations where you reach 100 tp for the first time on the first or second hit of a TP round.

If you want to account for TP excess, then you round up to the nearest attack round. Adding 1/2 a hit (not even 1/2 a round) seems stupid even for you, unless I'm completely missing something.

You are an idiot that's why you don't understand anything beside SAM. MNK is not SAM, you never get the same TP return or the same TP% on each WS that's why I'm 100% correct by calculating the "average" number of hits or rounds required to reach 100% TP. I did a calculation ON AVERAGE, meaning you necessarily don't fucking see integers for average attack rounds. If you map all the possibilities, getting 8 attack rounds on average means you get 5/6/7/8/9/10 etc are all possible attack rounds all with various chance at occuring and the average of them gives you the average number of rounds required.

[PEIPld]

PLD/NIN Food:

1. Dorado sushi

or

2. Tentacle sushi


if it matters, I don't have brutal ear and rajas, but I do have joytoy and atonement.

Dorado >> Tentacle
Better Q would be dorado vs sole

[Yugl]

Where did I say WS with fuma again ? All I assumed is no store TP on the feet which cover all options besides usukane. Go away.

The same place you saw the question restrict a Fuma user from using Usukane during WS. Get out.

[firepixiedarien]

Blitzer Poleyn augment for PLD/NIN:

Haste +3% & Double Attack +2%

OR

Enmity +4 & -4% Physical Damage Taken


Yes, I do not have Homam pants.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Neither. Haste +3% Accuracy +7.

[pchan]

The same place you saw the question restrict a Fuma user from using Usukane during WS. Get out.

I did the math for both case, now go away. It has abosultely no effect on deciding which is better, which is what you and failsam are insinuating.

[Yugl]

I did the math for both case, now go away. It has abosultely no effect on deciding which is better, which is what you and failsam are insinuating.

No one said it made a difference in the end. Learn to read. I specifically stated several times that FM is criticizing you for the assumptions you make. He, in his very post, states that he's criticizing you for the assumptions you make. I simply pointed out what that assumption was.

I'm too lazy to read or check the rest of pchans math, cause it's usually insanely faulty in every assumption he makes, such as the example provided. You don't get a larger WS TP return with usu feet, because nobody in their right mind is going to opt to WS in fumas over Usu feet. The debate is TP Fuma, WS Usu vs fulltime Usu. Pchan is just too dumb to comprehend this.

Do you see him disagreeing with your end result? If so, feel free to point it out, since all I see here is him attacking your assumption that the Fuma user isn't WSing in Usukane.

[FailureMidgard]

Where did I say WS with fuma again ? All I assumed is no store TP on the feet which covers all options besides usukane. Go away. Now I'll ask you what are those [unknown] feet your are ws with beside usukane that give 7 store TP. Secondly there are situations where usukane will not be the best WS feet...

You assumed 0 offensive stats on any form on WS in your first post. You didn't even try to use some other random feet like Denali. You just walked on by and went about your merry way. The only thing me and others are trying to say is, if we're comparing the best TP feet, then keep the WS feet consistent, however you do it. This is basic scientific method.

You know, you could ALSO have pointed out that I didn't consider Usukane body which will give different values for average number of hits required ; last I checked he didn't mention if he has Usu body or even mirke or even rajas. So I have to put myself in a situation.

Again, scientific method. We understand the fact that changing other slots can impact the difference in what you are comparing on feet slot for example, but the important thing is to keep other variables consistent. If you want to argue either the best feet, or the margin by which certain feet are better when you change to an usu body, then be my guest, but don't give 1 mnk an usu body and the other a scorpion harness, then conclude that XYZ feet win because of this.

Not that it matters, it has almost no effect on the outcome beside how much better usukane is. The %increase from going from usu body+fuma to usu body+usu feet is better than the case I considered.

I never once said Fuma beat Usukane, in fact, I think I said I thought Usu were better.

Because you know, there is this wonderful job called MNK (which you don't know shit about obviously) where attack rounds come with multiple hits. The last hit to reach 100 TP is inside an attack round, and due to the randomness of accuracy, double attack and kick attack you can find equiprobable situations where you reach 100 tp for the first time on the first or second hit of a TP round.

I understand this entirely, you're the one who seems to not get it, let me reiterate for you.

16.36 average hits required, at 95% accuracy; 16.36/.95=17.22 swings, at an average rate of 2.25 swings per round, that is 17.22/2.25=7.65 rounds.
With 15.17, 15.17/.95=15.96 swings on average. 15.96/2.25=7.09 rounds on average.

I am 100% fine leaving these #s. But again, I ask, why are you adding ONE HALF OF A HIT. You are not adding half an attack round, you are adding a half a hit for absolutely no reason. It's not going to change the result of whether Usu or Fuma is better, but it's just you being completely butt fuck wrong on comparing things.

Thanks, I understand how monk works, probably better than you. I don't even like the job, but I have it at 75 and can parse pretty damn well on it too. The thing is, your math makes absolutely no sense, and unless you can give me a reason as to why you are adding 1/2 an attack, then suck up your pride and admit you were fucking wrong. Again, this doesn't change the conclusion really, I'm just showing you why people think you're a dumbass.

As a side note, you made all you calculations more complex (in an unnecessary fashion) by adding accuracy separately into each one, it just cancels out anyway.

You are an idiot that's why you don't understand anything beside SAM. MNK is not SAM, you never get the same TP return or the same TP% on each WS that's why I'm 100% correct by calculating the "average" number of hits or rounds required to reach 100% TP. I did a calculation ON AVERAGE, meaning you necessarily don't fucking see integers for average attack rounds. If you map all the possibilities, getting 8 attack rounds on average means you get 5/6/7/8/9/10 etc are all possible attack rounds all with various chance at occuring and the average of them gives you the average number of rounds required.

Hi, you are an idiot that's why you don't understand how to read English. English is not French, I never once said not to use the "average". I said why the goddamn fuck are you adding 1/2 a hit to the average.

I did the math for both case, now go away. It has abosultely no effect on deciding which is better, which is what you and failsam are insinuating.

No, I never said this, please see above. Learn to read. I am insinuating you are an idiot and bad at math, and I am merely using this as an example to point out why. Usu feet are better a vast majority of the time. As you mentioned, you never even accounted for acc or attack.

No one said it made a difference in the end. Learn to read. I specifically stated several times that FM is criticizing you for the assumptions you make. He, in his very post, states that he's criticizing you for the assumptions you make. I simply pointed out what that assumption was.

Hey look, someone knows how to read.

Do you see him disagreeing with your end result? If so, feel free to point it out, since all I see here is him attacking your assumption that the Fuma user isn't WSing in Usukane.

Nope, not once, as I said:
"I'm not even arguing with which is better, I think 9 times out of 10 (or more), you can make use of the accuracy on Usu feet, so who cares."

[Wolfknight]

Dorado >> Tentacle
Better Q would be dorado vs bream

ftfy there is no fucking way 5 str will ever beat 1% acc[ie 3~5 acc], or plus +3 enmity on pld end of story.

[Snprphnx]

AF+1 Head vs OHat for TP on RNG?

Still waiting on the turtlehead to drop, and I WS in MKD Head

[Argettio]

AF+1 Head vs OHat for TP on RNG?

Still waiting on the turtlehead to drop, and I WS in MKD Head

All about the mob you are fighting.

Beret for capped acc, O hat for non-capped.

[pchan]

You assumed 0 offensive stats on any form on WS in your first post. You didn't even try to use some other random feet like Denali. You just walked on by and went about your merry way. The only thing me and others are trying to say is, if we're comparing the best TP feet, then keep the WS feet consistent, however you do it. This is basic scientific method.

I already answered this part. You are reproaching me for not to allowing the fumas monk to use usukane on WS, but why would you ? The OP asked "what's better" for TP, without mentionning what you would assume in other slots. If you want to compare the damage of MONK1 and MONK2, monk1 having fumas and no usukane and MONK2 having usukane you have to do the computation the way I did it first. At this point, and you admitted it your last post, it's obvious that you only wanted talk shit, by trying to discredit my maths by pointing out a completely irrelevant detail that doesn't influence the result. I mean if the question was "how much better is usukane > fumas" this would be relevant, but here we're talking what's better. You can WS with usu feet, no feet or w/e you feel like putting in that slot, this will have ZERO impact, so there is absolutely no point starting shit in the thread for the ONLY purpose of doing a negative post.

I am 100% fine leaving these #s. But again, I ask, why are you adding ONE HALF OF A HIT. You are not adding half an attack round, you are adding a half a hit for absolutely no reason. It's not going to change the result of whether Usu or Fuma is better, but it's just you being completely butt fuck wrong on comparing things.

This is exactly what I said, you don't understand some part of the math and therefore you claim it wrong. I mean, talk to your mog, go punch some bunnies, and you will see that monk's attack go by pair for the most part. Why do I add 1/2 of a hit you say ? It's fairly simple. Let's say that I'm am in a situation where I need 15 hits (using my computation method) to get 100 TP, which means a minimum 15 hits. MNK is not SAM. The 15th punch comes with a total round, where you can

- miss one of the hit
- get kicks or Double attack procs

What I claim is that due do the randomness of miss/DA/KA occuring in the previous attack rounds, you can never be certain that this 15th hit is part of the the 1st swing/2nd swing/DA of 1st swing/DA of 2nd swing/KA. A sequence of hit/miss/hit/hit etc allowing you to reach 100+ TP can be obtained equally (approximately) by having the 15th hit be either the first swing or the 2nd swing. As a consequence, and this is an approximation, mainly due to not accounting for the DA/KA part on the last round,

- 50% of the time you are getting [ 15 th hit (*) , 16 th hit ] on your last melee round where (*) is the hit at which you reach 100 TP for the first time, but you require 16 hits to finish that round.
- 50% of the time you are in the [ 14 th hit , 15 th hit (*)] configuration, where 15 hits are enough.

So on "average", you need 50% * 16 + 50% * 15= 8 + 7.5 = 15.5 hits.

There is the 1/2 hit that I added. If I were using Faith bag. I would have added 1 total hit, I'll let you guess why.. You know, this is what is is usually referred to as TP loss. With a normal weapon it's about 0.5 hits and with faith it's 1.0 hits (once again, it's an approximation). I'll let you compute, even approx., what happens for Kclub/ridill and other joy toys.

[grozny]

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