What's Better?

[Wulfgang]

Why not /NIN to Xarc? The enmity loss from damage taken is greater than the enmity gained from /WAR imo; especially on certain towers and later in the run. I have an ok PDT set (V. Plate, ASA legs, etc.) and Raum / Gomory / etc still put out a beating.

Although if you run with 25+ people, I can see why you'd /WAR.

[ZhiGaruda]

I guess I should ask about PLD/RDM too as well, I've had some rough times when I've tried it, but I think part of it has been me not really getting the playstyle...are you just relying on Flash for hate, or actually utilizing Blind/Sleep/Dispel? I've had a ton of trouble keep up with MP when I tried to use more than just Flash/Phalanx/Aquaveil. Is there a certain amount of MP/tick Refresh support you shouldn't try it without?

Well, really, the same way I utilize PLD/RDM can be obtained via PLD/WAR with a RDM constantly giving you a decently merited Phalanx II. Purely using it for damage reduction, fast cast, and the like.

For things like Xarc, it's just Flash and damage. Sleep/Dispel for things you can't do damage to, like JoL, Aspid when he is in his shell, that sort of thing.

The most important thing you need for /RDM is a VERY good enhancing magic build, a capped-stoneskin build (preferably with stone gorget and/or mufflers), and an open mind!

With stoneskin/phalanx, and opening a fight with Reprisal up, it's not out of the norm to go multiple mobs in Dyna without taking a single point of damage.

[ZhiGaruda]

Why not /NIN to Xarc? The enmity loss from damage taken is greater than the enmity gained from /WAR imo; especially on certain towers and later in the run. I have an ok PDT set (V. Plate, ASA legs, etc.) and Raum / Gomory / etc still put out a beating.

Although if you run with 25+ people, I can see why you'd /WAR.

My main reasoning is the fun factor. While yes, /NIN can certainly be more efficient (there is no point arguing this), /RDM or /WAR make it a lot more interesting. Counting shadows at every single event can get old!

With a proper -PDT% set and Reprisal, the NMs normally won't land many hits for over double-digit damage.

[Shin Volcano]

Then you're wasting potential damage is the point of this debate. The amount of damage from going all out then dying and starting over is undoubtedly greater than going hard then trying to hold back for the rest of the fight.

Khimaira, Odin, DI, and a number of other fights are good examples of this. Your point is valid that you may get hit by an AOE and be double weak and useless, but the best RNGs usually manage.

Or i just had good tanks, the delay in which i ranged attacked and Ws was not that far apart, i'm sorry but yes, it is possible to still do damage over time and not die, never said i was undefeatable, there have been deaths here and there, but most were on DI when i used to fight him, and still didn't have issues with dealing damage,

I just know how to control my hate, but yes, it does need a none-retarded tank that can do more then just flash on occassions, or whine when you do grab hate. the few times i did manage to snag hate, they always managed to get it back in a fair amount of time before i did bite the dust. don't know why this is still going on. another great option is to have a THF in the same PT to collabarate or accomplice you every now and then, if they build to much hate they just log off if it's not about to die, if you think hate will be an issue, they are useful for more then just a "TH" whore, i will admit tho that i have never been to odin on rng. but rather SMN.

[ZhiGaruda]

another great option is to have a THF in the same PT to collabarate or accomplice you every now and then, if they build to much hate they just log off if it's not about to die

Again, this does not do anything. Unless the THF is the target of the monster at that time, logging off does not reset enmity. This will likely never be the case in terms of a THF collab'ing someone, as all the VE will be falling off and they will just be stuck with capped CE as some point.

[Shin Volcano]

Again, this does not do anything. Unless the THF is the target of the monster at that time, logging off does not reset enmity. This will likely never be the case in terms of a THF collab'ing someone, as all the VE will be falling off and they will just be stuck with capped CE as some point.

DO you log comeplety log off? or do you just go to the title screen and log back in, cause yes, that won't help.

[ZhiGaruda]

DO you log comeplety log off? or do you just go to the title screen and log back in, cause yes, that won't help.

.................................................. ...........................


Are you joking, or is this a serious comment?

What?

[Deader2818]

So wait, all these times I fought Tiamat and was forced to log all the way out of the game to "reset hate" I could have just gone, smoked a cig, come back, and have the same affect?

Good to know.

[ZhiGaruda]

So wait, all these times I fought Tiamat and was forced to log all the way out of the game to "reset hate" I could have just gone, smoked a cig, come back, and have the same affect?

Good to know.

Basically yes. The ONLY way to remove yourself from the monsters enmity "list" is to BE the target, and fail the "check". As in, if you were to warp, and the tank lost enough hate that the monster is now looking for YOU, obviously you are not there. You are now removed from the enmity list.

Obviously logging off would have the same effect, but only if you are not there when the "check" is made.

[Deader2818]

Wow, what a waste of time then, lol

I had a feeling logging out didn't really work when id log out, come back, do like, a Tier III nuke on Tiamat and get drawn in again.

[Narse]

Sea gorget or Faith Torque for Asuran Fists, when the H2H skill from Faith torque puts your skill high enough to add another base damage?

I don't imagine race/gear makes a difference on this, but if it does:

Taru with 5 STR merits

276 base H2H skill (no merits)

Shenlong's Baghnakhs
Black Tathlum
Maat's Cap (eventually Hissho Hachimaki when I have some time and luck)
Sea Gorget or Faith Torque (the question)
Ethereal Earring + Diabolos's Earring (if dark weather I use Waetoto's Earring instead of Diabolos's Earring, and yes I know I should have a Merman's Earring instead of Ethereal Earring but inventory issues prevent me from wasting a spot for one attack on a job I don't get to play often)
Hachiryu Haramaki
Ochiudo's Kote
Rajas Ring
Mars's Ring
Charger's Mantle
Virtuoso Belt
Usukane Hizayoroi
Usukane Sune-Ate

[Shinryuu]

For simplicity assuming the accuracy offsets the attack, gorget adds 8.1/8 = 1.25% damage, I'm going to say 1 DMG is roughly that or a bit more since Asuran mods are shit (1 STR is 0.083 DMG past fSTR...). Capped ACC = Faith, uncapped = gorget is what I'd go with. Keep focus in mind. By the way if ACC is not an issue I'd WS in Maat's if your fSTR isn't capped. Reversing that, I'd use Noritsune kote if your accuracy is uncapped. And don't you have a Cerberus mantle +1?

[Narse]

For simplicity assuming the accuracy offsets the attack, gorget adds 8.1/8 = 1.25% damage, I'm going to say 1 DMG is roughly that or a bit more since Asuran mods are shit (1 STR is 0.083 DMG past fSTR...). Capped ACC = Faith, uncapped = gorget is what I'd go with. Keep focus in mind. By the way if ACC is not an issue I'd WS in Maat's if your fSTR isn't capped. Reversing that, I'd use Noritsune kote if your accuracy is uncapped. And don't you have a Cerberus mantle +1?

When I use MNK it's generally in Salvage or some special situation where crush damage is preferred. Possibly Nyzul or assaults on occasion as well. I do not have a Cerb. Mantle +1, just Forager's.

[Shinryuu]

With pizza+1 you should be capping ACC in Salvage even on bosses especially with your gear so use Faith.

[Callisto]

Why not /NIN to Xarc? The enmity loss from damage taken is greater than the enmity gained from /WAR imo; especially on certain towers and later in the run. I have an ok PDT set (V. Plate, ASA legs, etc.) and Raum / Gomory / etc still put out a beating.

Although if you run with 25+ people, I can see why you'd /WAR.

We usually only run with 14~ and do normal farming with a couple of NMs for key pieces we actually need, I was generally /WAR just because it seems that Quadrastike nearly makes my shadows useless and I liked having Voke for a 2nd claiming tool and Warcry for another minor hate boost. I'm still kinda trying to find my comfort setup up until a couple of months ago I was perma-RDM for Dynamis and just recently started tanking instead.

Well, really, the same way I utilize PLD/RDM can be obtained via PLD/WAR with a RDM constantly giving you a decently merited Phalanx II. Purely using it for damage reduction, fast cast, and the like.

For things like Xarc, it's just Flash and damage. Sleep/Dispel for things you can't do damage to, like JoL, Aspid when he is in his shell, that sort of thing.

The most important thing you need for /RDM is a VERY good enhancing magic build, a capped-stoneskin build (preferably with stone gorget and/or mufflers), and an open mind!

With stoneskin/phalanx, and opening a fight with Reprisal up, it's not out of the norm to go multiple mobs in Dyna without taking a single point of damage.

I don't have that good of a PDT set, I use the following:

Joy/Terror/Kaman
Koenig/Shield/Buckler/Loq
Avalon/Homam/Patronus/Jelly
Boxer's/Swift/Homam/Gallant+1

My enhancing set is reasonably strong, torque/Merciful/1 merit/AF+1 legs, capped stoneskin but no mufflers/neck.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Following up my BLU gear question: Is going out of my way to get a Mekki Shakki going to be a big improvement over Vulcan Staff for Cannonball and Vertical Cleave?

There's a 35D difference between the two and uh, I can't help but think that should add some extra damage?

[Andradi]

BLU spell damage has no relation to your weapon's base D. No, not worth your time.

[clobetasol]

Mekki Shakki vs. Vulcan's Staff, while trying to maintain a 5 hit. I have other pertinent stp gear. Also if mekki wins out, would it be better to get snapshot/ratk 10 on ACP body or snapshot/racc10?

[Yugl]

BLU spell damage has no relation to your weapon's base D. No, not worth your time.

As said earlier, it has no effect on your DMG. Only your BLU Magic Skill and Modifiers increase your DMG. Cannonball is the exception in which BLU Magic Skill, Modifiers, and DEF determine the damage.

[Cairthenn]

Basically yes. The ONLY way to remove yourself from the monsters enmity "list" is to BE the target, and fail the "check". As in, if you were to warp, and the tank lost enough hate that the monster is now looking for YOU, obviously you are not there. You are now removed from the enmity list.

Obviously logging off would have the same effect, but only if you are not there when the "check" is made.

It would so obviously work then. With the THF gone..how is everyone else supposed to survive? They'd die immediately and then the THF would fail the check, bro.