Metatron Torment Aftermath

[Kirschy]

I was helping Sath with the testing in Boyahda Tree. I used /check tests to figure out defense of random mobs like mandys, crabs, crawlers, exorays, and bunnies. Everytime he used MT, the defense of the mob didn't change. More importantly he didn't recieve "xxx's defense down wears off." The original poster stated that some mobs didn't recieve the defense down, but others did and that he DID get the wear off message.

The big question is figuring out how the defense down procs. (Also possible something got bugged in an update and no one has noticed yet!) Once we can figure out what causes the def down proc, should be easy to get a read on it.

[BerenTebogo]

What Kirschy said. A handful of mobs is coincidence, 50 WS worth is a trend. Something was wrong.

And regarding the breath damage - there may be something to it, the only other confirmation I got that my assertion was correct was kirschy going through her logger file to find the max damage she took from CC also as DRK (different group, different runs, different gear) and that was 400 also.

Obviously that isn't 100% solid but I do feel comfortable about the breath-% conclusion.

[Suiram]

400 makes sense because breath damage is capped (otherwise breath from NMs or any higher-HP mobs would do ridiculous damage until you got them below like 20%). The thing I was asking to verify (and anyone with breath damage taken gear could do this) is whether or not the cap is imposed before or after damage reduction, but it's a long shot like I was saying, you're probably right in the inference that MT aftermath simply doesn't include breath damage.

[BerenTebogo]

Oh, well that I can see if I can get around to trying - something me and kirschy were also wondering if is maybe it isn't MT and maybe -DMG of all forms doesn't affect breaths.

IR lance in cape terrigan should make quick work of that idea.

[Callisto]

Need to MT in MAcc gear, obv.

[Neoex]

the only mob I ever remember seeing "Defense Down has worn off on" EVER is the Fortification

[Scorp]

strange Metatron WS Def Down overwrites Wivre DEF+ move, its pritty noticable. maybe the DEF down only works as a "debuff" to Def+ moves?

It would fit that it inflicts a defense down effect similar to that of Tomahawk, and as such only works on certain mobs.

Of the observations posted here people only seem to mention mobs that have special resistance to damage, i.e. Wivre after granite hide, fortifications and ixion.

(I'm not sure how Wivre's defense boost is classified, but it doesn't seem to fit with the cocoon/protect/phalanx group, as there is no self buff message).

Should be fairly easy to test both tomahawk and MT on slimes/elementals etc.

A long shot I know but the rarity of it being used on these types of mobs combined with the potential rarity of it taking effect could be what makes it hard to pin down.

[Sehrahin]

As late as today I got:
The Coquecigrue's Defense Down effect wears off.
The Jailer of Love's Defense Down effect wears off.
Also got the message several times in salvage vs. chariot bosses. And lots of other mobs >.>
As I've seen thus far it's low proc rate but it do happen even on strong mobs.

[Pandum]

only seen it twice, once on tiamat other on ein KB boss ;(

[BerenTebogo]

So signs are pointing to a "tomahawk" type effect (doesn't tiamat resist piercing or something?)

[Yugl]

So signs are pointing to a "tomahawk" type effect (doesn't tiamat resist piercing or something?)

I believe he does. I remember one of the greatest ironies in FFXI was (and probably still is) that DRGs, a class designed with the image of dragon conqueror, was absolutely useless against Wyrms. Especially, since their main weapon had damage reduction against them.

[Tsuko_Asura]

In Square's defense, this game places a pretty heavy distinction between "dragons" and "wyrms".

Edit: Wait, are you sure its a piercing resistance, and not a ranged attack resistance against Tiamat and Jorm? I always thought ranger did decent damage against Fafhog, and I don't recall thief sucking on Fafhog any more than anything else.

[BerenTebogo]

Someone needs to bring a Bravura to JoT. MT -> thunder 1 -> damage?

[Yugl]

No, in Squares defense, the lolDRG is working as intended.
Edit: Sath has TWO relics?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Kikoku got hammered

[Raen Ryong]

and I don't recall thief sucking on Fafhog any more than anything else.

There is definitely no piercing resist present on Fafhogg, or if there it's incredibly minor.

Sorry if I misunderstood your point.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I always just assumed that Jorm/Tiamat had a ranged resistance so you couldn't just rely on rangers for them during flight.

[Gtype954]

I always just assumed that Jorm/Tiamat had a ranged resistance so you couldn't just rely on rangers for them during flight.

They are extremely high leveled monsters (level 95), So I think they just have alot of defense and evasion/resist penalties simply because they are 20 levels higher then us I always assumed.

A MNK,SAM,THF,RNG,BLM,WAR can all hit Tiamat for over 1000 damage as I seen it before. BLM can only reach that potential with elite gear and a magic burst (with bonus MB damage also) with elemental seal up from what I've seen.
THF can Assassin's charge him with sneak attack LOL. (Seen a THF do it fucking around once, no spike flail that time luckily).
SAM can gekko him for over 1100 and WAR can Steel Cyclone him for over 2000 damage.
Sidewinders and Drakesbanes do sick damage from what I remember.

Due to their high level nature plus dragon killer effect, I think SE intended DRGs to be the best job for those wyrms with Angon and Polearm weaponskills and jumps... This was back then when SE thought we would probably melee wyrms to death instead of nuke and ranged attack.

I don't think the wyrms have any resistance to peircing. I think its just the level gap to be honest even though I do not know how the formula for that goes.

[Yugl]

I only recall it being the three CoP Wyrms where the damage reduction took place, and it was mentioned back when they first appeared. If it's not true, it was probably a myth that stemmed from the lolDRG period or simply someone overestimating how much DMG he should be doing. I actually forgot about it (Since I don't kill Wyrms) until Sath brought it up. That said...

Due to their high level nature plus dragon killer effect, I think SE intended DRGs to be the best job for those wyrms with Angon and Polearm weaponskills and jumps... This was back then when SE thought we would probably melee wyrms to death instead of nuke and ranged attack.

Us DRGs have some high level nature folks! Angon came out after/during ToAU and Polearm WSs have generally been shit until Drakesbane (Penta being good for ToAU, but Wheeling doing absolute shit).

[Kirschy]

They are extremely high leveled monsters (level 95), So I think they just have alot of defense and evasion/resist penalties simply because they are 20 levels higher then us I always assumed.

A MNK,SAM,THF,RNG,BLM,WAR can all hit Tiamat for over 1000 damage as I seen it before. BLM can only reach that potential with elite gear and a magic burst (with bonus MB damage also) with elemental seal up from what I've seen.
THF can Assassin's charge him with sneak attack LOL. (Seen a THF do it fucking around once, no spike flail that time luckily).
SAM can gekko him for over 1100 and WAR can Steel Cyclone him for over 2000 damage.
Sidewinders and Drakesbanes do sick damage from what I remember.

Due to their high level nature plus dragon killer effect, I think SE intended DRGs to be the best job for those wyrms with Angon and Polearm weaponskills and jumps... This was back then when SE thought we would probably melee wyrms to death instead of nuke and ranged attack.

I don't think the wyrms have any resistance to peircing. I think its just the level gap to be honest even though I do not know how the formula for that goes.

There's no level correction for magic damage. Tiamat and other CoP Wyrms just have 50% MDTA (And some resistance that works on Diabolos.) It has a 50% cut to ranged damage too. (Pretti sure it's just ranged, and not pierce.) Neither of these are applied to Fafnir though, which takes normal damage.

The Defense Down of MT did seem like it might be Tomahawk-like, but re-reading that it wore off on Antica, and other mobs without damage resistance kind of ruins that idea. If any Relic GAX user uses the logger plugin, would be nice if you could run a quick search for the string ['s defense down effect wears off.], and post a collection of mobs that were afflicted by it. Might give us some more insight into how the defense down proc works.