Metatron Torment Aftermath

[Sehrahin]

Other info:

It's 20 seconds/100TP.

20 sec at 100tp
40 sec at 200tp
60 sec at 300tp

The defense down -can- be resisted, tried on a beetle and never got the defense down wears off. But it will land on harder stuff, on nuhn it lasted roughly a minute from timing my logs.

Evasion down last anywhere from 30sec to a minute from what I've seen thus far.

[Dooom]

Just gonna say the obvious:

Shell V + Aftermath is potentially -45 MDT. What now faceshield.

If this turns out to be true, then just... wow. That it took so long for even this idea to come to light, never mind real testing about the aftermath, is just... well, kinda depressing.

[Sehrahin]

I know Ballista tests are iffy but just tested to get some sample at least.

Burst II
Before 954
After 860

Which is roughly 10%, and was said that effect was halved in some way? Gonna try and test on a real mob but it's 2am and kinda tired >.>

[Suiram]

It works out to be the same as the physical reduction, -52/256.

1571 * [204/256] = 1251

1571 - [(1571^2)/4000] = 1571 - 617 = 954
1251 - [(1251^2)/4000] = 1251 - 391 = 860

But yeah, a real non-Ballista test later would be nice confirmation. Thanks for doing what you can now, though (and the earlier tests, too).

[By the way, this is exactly what I was saying above that probably happened with the first person to test this and found it to be 10%. ]

[Sehrahin]

I don't know if defense down gets that penalty but did some tests on the defense down in ballista as well.

On my MNK friend:

Before 357, 400
After 290, 325

Which would work out to 18,75% or 48/256? Lil lower than Angon but certainly pretty awesome.

[Sehrahin]

Updated OP with some stuff about other effects.

[Byrthnoth]

I think you're better off checking defense using ranged attacks (outside of ballista obviously), but I'm not sure.

sry 4 stupid. bak frm prty.

[Max™]

*been bitching for this testing for YEARS*

Thank you very much, that is fucking epic that it beats an Earth Staff and rivals Aegis.

[Masamune]

Best method i used for checking a mob's def is simply the /check messages for Low/High def: it gives really accurate messages. Example on Flamingos@Sky: Talk:Flamingo - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more.

But in your case, since would have to do it on mobs near yur level and very fast changing attack equipements before getting raped, might be impractical
Actually if you can sleep the mob after landed the def down effect, you would just have the def down duration time frame to swap and test yur attack vs mob's def /checks.

EDIT: also would be nice to test the evasion down potency.

Thanks deeply Sehrahin for those tests.

[Sehrahin]

Further testing today on Cave Worms in Kuftal Tunnel.

Two different worms casting Stone 3.

Without Aftermath:
Worm 1: 312 and 156 (half resist)
Worm 2: 307

With Aftermath:
Worm 1: 124, 125
Worm 2: 244, 121

Also on Stonega 2 on 2nd worm
Without: 282
With: 224

Which with my crappy math would work out the same as 52/256?

[Starr]

I never would have expected it to be so good and not only good but for magical damage aswell is amazing, best new info to come out for FFXI in a while.

[Sehrahin]

Funny how my title is Fake Numbers right now!

[Byrthnoth]

Okay, that works too.

Because the Ratk pDIF is so regular, I thought you could pretty much shoot a crab in Kuftal with a bolt until you get the max damage from it, look at the damage taken and calculate its defense (you know your RAtk and the pDIF). Then you hit it until you get Defense Down and shoot it with bolts some more until you find the max damage with Defense Down on and calculate its new defense.

[Masamune]

Okay, that works too.

Because the Ratk pDIF is so regular, I thought you could pretty much shoot a crab in Kuftal with a bolt until you get the max damage from it, look at the damage taken and calculate its defense (you know your RAtk and the pDIF). Then you hit it until you get Defense Down and shoot it with bolts some more until you find the max damage with Defense Down on and calculate its new defense.

How much are exactly those Range pDIFs ? i didnot test them yet.

[Byrthnoth]

I don't know how exact they are, as I never played a job that did ranged damage past level 40ish and so never tested them. I believe they were the first pDIF curves worked out. Also, as you probably know / can see from the equations, the gap between max and min pDIF values is very small with one of the bounds often being the cRatio itself.

0 <= cRatio <= .9 :: Min pDIF = cRatio :: Max pDIF = 10*cRatio/9
.9 <= cRatio <= 1.1 :: Min and Max pDIF = 1
1.1 <= cRatio <= 3 :: Min pDIF = 20*cRatio/19 - 3/19 :: Max pDIF = cRatio

Because WAR's Marksmanship skill is so low and Crabs have high Defense, it'd likely fall within the 0 - 0.9 cRatio range on crabs.

[Masamune]

Actually i misphrased my question :

How much are actually those max/min pDIFs under capped conditions ? (like i did for 1H&2H weapons)

Also, while trying to find a build to reach 100TP exact, i noticed strangely that my boomerang were doing exactly and always same dmg on bunnies: useful feature for current topic?

[Byrthnoth]

Well, the 1.1-3.0 equations converge at pDIF = cRatio for a cRatio of 3.0.

When cRatio = 3.0:
pDIF = 20*cRatio/19 - 3/19 = 60/19 - 3/19 = 57/19 = 3.0

So that's why it always did the same damage.

[BerenTebogo]

So excited :Q for this

[Masamune]

mmm i just went tet as war/nin naked on bunnies, worms and bats EastRonfaure, with a Long boomerang(baseDMG=18 ). STR82 AGI65 Throwing skill=210.

Bunnies & Worms: normal114/crits142
Bats: normal142/crits177

... then as THF/nin naked with Rosenbogen(baseDMG38 ), SelfBow(BaseDMG14) with HornArrows(DMG14) and ZiskaCrossbow(BaseDMG28 ) with SleepBolts(DMG1). STR75 Archery45 Marksmanship230.
Bunnies worms :
Rosen: normal237/296crits
SelfBow: normal147/crit183
Ziska: normal153/191crits

Now tell me how do you differentiate those mobs since dmg is all same on all of them barring bats, so can't really get bunnies & worms def ? they both have same def ?

[Kirschy]

Further testing today on Cave Worms in Kuftal Tunnel.

Two different worms casting Stone 3.

Without Aftermath:
Worm 1: 312 and 156 (half resist)
Worm 2: 307

With Aftermath:
Worm 1: 124, 125
Worm 2: 244, 121

Also on Stonega 2 on 2nd worm
Without: 282
With: 224

Which with my crappy math would work out the same as 52/256?

w/o AM:
Worm 1: 312 Base
Worm 2: 307 Base

/w AM:
Worm 1: (142 *2[1/2 resist])= ~248 Base
Worm 2: ~244 Base

(1-52/256)*312 = 248
(1-52/256)*307 = 244
(1-52/256)*282 = 224

Thats a strong confirmation that the AM is "Damage Reduction" and not just "Physical Damage Reduction." So to rephrase, it's like wearing two defending rings in your weapon slot!

Your ballista test looks good for a 48/256 reduction, but it would be nice to get a confirmation test in non-pvp as we've already seen how Ballista can distort the actual effects.

If you decide to run further tests, I agree with Masamune that /check tests work the best for deducing the Defense Down term accurately. You would definetly need a friend /w sleep(and/or dispel) to help the testing go smoother/faster.

Determine the defense of the mob by using /check until you hit a boundry such as:
The xxx has low defense and low evasion vs
The xxx has low evasion

or

The xxx has low evasion vs.
The xxx has high defense and low evasion

You can do these checks on any character, but make sure you have a bunch of STR/Attack options to choose from~
After performing the AM, re-run the /checks, and attempt to hit that boundry value again. Since you have a tested value of the defense down effect, it will be quick to confirm or deny if the term works in non-pvp cases. If you're into SSing your proof, take a SS with the change in /check message displayed in log + your EQ screen~

You could also repeat this test replacing defense with evasion. It's a much more difficult test to run because the evasion down is random proc, and calculating accuracy is just more difficult than attack/defense. But if you're dedicated to getting precise and accurate results, I'm sure everyone would love to see it!

Also one more thing you might want to try testing~ You said that the "Defense Down" portion of the AM displays a "xxx's defense down effect wears off." Try testing which affects stack with it, are overwritten by it, and overwrite it.

Example:
1)Use AM, someone casts Dia III on mob. If you still get the "xxx's defense down effect wears off", and "Dia III wears off" then you know they stacked~
2)Use AM, someone uses Angon. If you don't get the wear message, but the DRG does, then you know your effect was overwritten.
3)Someone uses an Acid Bolt, you use AM. You get the wear message for AM, but the acid bolt guy doesn't. You'd know AM overwrites acid bolts.

I'm fairly certian this type of testing is accurate(if it isn't, someone correct me!)

Just want to say thank you again for all the testing you've already done~