Metatron Torment Aftermath

[Kirschy]

mmm i just went tet as war/nin naked on bunnies, worms and bats EastRonfaure, with a Long boomerang(baseDMG=18 ). STR82 AGI65 Throwing skill=210.

Bunnies & Worms: normal114/crits142
Bats: normal142/crits177

... then as THF/nin naked with Rosenbogen(baseDMG38 ), SelfBow(BaseDMG14) with HornArrows(DMG14) and ZiskaCrossbow(BaseDMG28 ) with SleepBolts(DMG1). STR75 Archery45 Marksmanship230.
Bunnies worms :
Rosen: normal237/296crits
SelfBow: normal147/crit183
Ziska: normal153/191crits

Now tell me how do you differentiate those mobs since dmg is all same on all of them barring bats, so can't really get bunnies & worms def ? they both have same def ?

Ranged Attack caps at Attack/Defense ratio of 3.0. (3 times the enemies defense). There's no way you can determine a lv1 mobs defense using a 75 char this way

Weapon Rank on DMG18 Boomerange is (18/9) = 2
fSTR2 cap is (Weapon Rank + 8 ) x 2
fSTR2 cap is (2 + 8 ) x 2 = 20

Damage = Base * pdif
Base = fSTR + DMG, 20 + 18 = 38

114 = 38 * pdif
pdif = 3.0

114 hits * 1.25(rng crit) = 142 crit on bunny
114 * (1.25 pierce bonus) = 142 hits on bats
142 * 1.25(rng crit) = 177 crit on bats

Ranged pdif is very stable compared to melee pdif. (Piecewise-linear function based on attack/defense ratio.) But with the distance crap and some degree of instability in damage rate, /check tests are much better.

[Masamune]

Yes Kirschy most of what yu said is correct except a few details:

1. after done with checks on a given mob yu need to kill it to get its exp -> determine its level with exp table @ wiki. best to use EM/DC mobs.

2. personnaly, when i use checks, i do it in BOTH ways (LowDef AND HighDef) to be sure of the value obtain from each method.

3. When /checking, to avoid confusion @ 1 def precision, i used the following "format":
- check stayed LowDef with xxx attack MINIMUM
- check stayed HighDef with xxx attack MAXIMUM
- check stayed LowEva with weapon + xxaccuracy (+Xdex eventually) MINI
- check stayed HighEva with weapon + xxaccuracy (+Xdex eventually) MAXI

then :
- Mob's Def = attackHighDEF+1 = floor((attackLowDEF-1)/1.25)
- Mob's Eva = WeaponSkillAccu + floor(dex/2) +accuracyHighEva + 31 = WeaponSkillAccu + floor(dex/2) +accuracyLowEva -10

[Kirschy]

Yes Kirschy most of what yu said is correct except a few details:

1. after done with checks on a given mob yu need to kill it to get its exp -> determine its level with exp table @ wiki. best to use EM/DC mobs.

2. personnaly, when i use checks, i do it in BOTH ways (LowDef AND HighDef) to be sure of the value obtain from each method.

3. When /checking, to avoid confusion @ 1 def precision, i used the following "format":
- check stayed LowDef with xxx attack MINIMUM
- check stayed HighDef with xxx attack MAXIMUM
- check stayed LowEva with weapon + xxaccuracy (+Xdex eventually) MINI
- check stayed HighEva with weapon + xxaccuracy (+Xdex eventually) MAXI

then :
- Mob's Def = attackHighDEF+1 = floor((attackLowDEF-1)/1.25)
- Mob's Eva = WeaponSkillAccu + floor(dex/2) +accuracyHighEva + 31 = WeaponSkillAccu + floor(dex/2) +accuracyLowEva -10

Level correction only occurs in the damage. For simple defense checking, it's fine to not use the actual level of the mob~

I agree, it's more precise to use both /check boundries, but I think it'll be fine if he tests with just using one. Chances are it'll be the same as his ballista test anyway~ Knowing the actual defense/evasion is nice, but he just needs to know the factor by which it changes. (Unless you're concerned it could be a static decrease instead of a multiplier?)

[Cleverness]

This is pretty insane it's turning out to be so versatile an Aftermath effect.

Also kinda sad everyone else with a Bravura MOST LIKELY doesn't know this cause they are too lazy to just check it out themselves.

[Masamune]

Level correction only occurs in the damage. For simple defense checking, it's fine to not use the actual level of the mob~

Actually, when determining a mob family stats from EM/DC ones, i went to same ones higher levels to verify if the pattern stays: got non matching check results... i'm not still not done yet, but that's why i wrote that (maybe its a level correction when mob lvl > your lvl i dunno and im not done yet).

... but he just needs to know the factor by which it changes. (Unless you're concerned it could be a static decrease instead of a multiplier?)

yu read my mind ^^

[BerenTebogo]

Since other WAR WS give static DEF- it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination.

Edit: Well, they give static EVA- and I /believe/ they give static DEF-

May need more testing also -.-

[Shinryuu]

Bravura's pretty much FFX's Full Break. Less damage taken, more dealt, more accurately.

[Celebrindor]

Wow. I think it was said best with "That's like wearing two defending rings in your weapon slot". Totally woke this bum up to other melee relics and how good they really can be. Maybe now I won't have to stare at 90% apocs when I see relics?

Dare I say it.....but did SE do something highly beneficial that we weren't aware of for this long?


Now I'd love to see this in full application to see what a facetanking WAR with Bravura can do!

[Byrthnoth]

Bravura, D-ring, Valk hat, Jelly Ring, Askar Feet, DS Harness +1, DS Subligar +1, DS Mittens +1, Shellra V = Capped -% damage taken for both types?

[BerenTebogo]

I like heavy gauntlets over dsteel mittens but I guess the slow+3% may get old after a time if I'm idling in it for a while.

[S N K]

This thread has really all gotten a lot of people I know more interested in upgrading this now more then ever.

[Yugl]

Wow. I think it was said best with "That's like wearing two defending rings in your weapon slot". Totally woke this bum up to other melee relics and how good they really can be. Maybe now I won't have to stare at 90% apocs when I see relics?

Dare I say it.....but did SE do something highly beneficial that we weren't aware of for this long?


Now I'd love to see this in full application to see what a facetanking WAR with Bravura can do!

It's a very nice find, but when you think about it, most stuff is blink tanked (Better to take no DMG than reduced DMG right?). Even in cases where blink tanking doesn't work (And there are a few), it's unlikely that you'll want to be in melee range to begin (Thinking of JOL, but there may be other examples).

[Klain]

This thread has really all gotten a lot of people I know more interested in upgrading this now more then ever.

Man, I started before it was cool.

[Shinryuu]

There's the occasional stuff you tank /SAM (Sarameya, maybe Tyger) and shit like this helps tons.

[Therin]

Man, I started before it was cool.

With your 2 Byne Bills?

[Celebrindor]

It's a very nice find, but when you think about it, most stuff is blink tanked (Better to take no DMG than reduced DMG right?). Even in cases where blink tanking doesn't work (And there are a few), it's unlikely that you'll want to be in melee range to begin (Thinking of JOL, but there may be other examples).

No question. However I would just like to see it for the max potential, not always for practical application. Eh, just be amusing to have WAR/SAM soloing some NM typically reserved for more traditional solo jobs and just watching the mob piddle away at him.

Like I said, fun and some unique possibilities opened up, but certainly not game changing to the point of people choosing facetanking over blink tanking.

Eh, if nothing else good for when you pull hate while AM is up?

[Kirschy]

It's a very nice find, but when you think about it, most stuff is blink tanked (Better to take no DMG than reduced DMG right?). Even in cases where blink tanking doesn't work (And there are a few), it's unlikely that you'll want to be in melee range to begin (Thinking of JOL, but there may be other examples).

I kinda disagree here. Blinktanking is still useful every now and then, but the game and playerbase has progressed to the point where melee are able to use DD subs instead of relying on /NIN for everything. There's a balance between damage output and damage mitigation so your mage's can keep you cured/healthy/buffed.

I'd say a good WAR probably uses /SAM majority of the time in their endgame activities. From Salvage and merit parties, to Einherjar and SCNMs. /nin is always going to have it's uses, but it's a smaller% now than ever before.

Having the Damage Mitigation from Relic GAX can be a huge help, but tbh I'm sure there's plenty of times when Raging Rush/King's Justice is going to be the better choice due to damage output. I honestly dunno how it would be used most effectively~

[BerenTebogo]

There's a lot of fights where I still open with full break or use full break to counter a DEF bonus or EVA bonus if I'm in a situation without dispel.

I think a 200-300 damage per WS loss to keep a DEF- and -20% damage buff to yourself at all times has a number of applications. I think there are very few situations where pumping out a 1200 damage KJ every 30-40 seconds is going to end in anything other than pain for you (except obviously merit or einherjar)

900-1000 for survivability, damage enhancement for your other melee, and consistancy (1 hit 60% STR mod WS) are going to be a welcome addition to a number of events. In fact I think the places you'll find it least beneficial are in einherjar / merit situations unless you have the opportunity to close a skillchain.

Correct me if I'm wrong, that's just how I see it. We'll all know soon enough anyways XD

Edit for tying it all together: I think a good way to compare it, although not on the same scale, would be with a good Yoichi owner. Sure, you can sit there and spam sidewinder during events and pop off ridiculous numbers but you're gonna get 3, maybe 4 off with even the best tanks before whatever you're fighting has run across the zone to fuck your day up.

What's the answer? Namas spam for 400~ less than sidewinder and total survivability. DPS still increases dramatically from the relic and ultimately allows the job to perform much more efficiently than it does with an Ebow. I think bravura offers you a similar option for WARs.

[Max™]

Let's you stand next to the tanks and laugh as Fafnir crits you for 300 Dmg in your PDT set, or you get nuked for Aegis pld type dmgs.

That's what I was hoping, and why I wanted testing for years.

[Klain]

With your 2 Byne Bills?

8 thank you very much, don't judge me!