Provoke (Wiki misinformation)

[Afrohatch]

Did you try stacking CHR?

[Kipling]

You didn't do anything wrong, Kirschy. Just good work like always.

[Narol]

I'd recommend just using a parser, counting from the chatlog seems like a terrible waste of time.

Yeah. I know. I wasn't even planning on doing Diabolos' HP, so I didn't use a parser on him. It was only after the fight that I got curious and did it the hard way. Only took about 10 minutes, but damn.

Pretty much everything else that dies in more than like 5 hits I use a parser on, so safe to say I learned that lesson already.

[Max™]

It SEEMS that War main voke in BALLISTA lands more often.

It SEEMS that +Enm gear makes voke land more in BALLISTA.

It is KNOWN that you can generate Enmity on other players in BALLISTA, as Atonement does work if you generate hate on someone, it just doesn't make them target you.

It is LIKELY that SE modified WARRIOR MAIN JOB voke to land more often in BALLISTA.

It is POSSIBLE that SE meant WAR MAIN 50+ IN BALLISTA generates more than /WAR IN BALLISTA, as it would explain the different effects of voke in there.

It does NOT work outside of BALLISTA, I know, and those tests just confirmed what I've also found with friends trying to figure out why our voke was different in BALLISTA.


I didn't say anything because it was kind of obvious, but thank you for correcting that Kirschinator.


P.S. IN BALLISTA

[Hashmalum]

It's also possible that WAR main Provoke is SUPPOSED to have more enmity, but doesn't. We all know how well SE tests things, and even if it was working at one time, it is totally possible that it broke and nobody even noticed. After all, we are talking about about an undocumented effect on a hidden stat. It's a well-known flaw of the SE "don't tell the players anything about how the game works" approach. Still unless somebody can cough up a link to this supposed interview I'm guessing that it's just misremembered garbage or just some bullshit someone made up because he was mad that his LS didn't want his TOTALLY AWESOME!!!1 WAR tank.

[Pendulum]

After all, we are talking about about an undocumented effect on a hidden stat.

It's undocumented because it's fictional, just like how someone kept changing the fTP values for Tachi: Gekko with no proof of it being so.

[Kaeko]

Good that you found this was not true Kirschy!

All my tests that involved Provoke dealt with 37WAR sub since neither Ashira or I had 75 WAR, so we actually have never used a 50+WAR provoke ever. Considering the entire concept of VE and quantifying VE was based on Provoke, this would have been really annoying (thought ultimately I don't think it would have changed current findings given all the other evidence for the system built up in the last ~2 years).

[Norellicus]

It SEEMS that War main voke in BALLISTA lands more often.

It SEEMS that +Enm gear makes voke land more in BALLISTA.

It is KNOWN that you can generate Enmity on other players in BALLISTA, as Atonement does work if you generate hate on someone, it just doesn't make them target you.

It is LIKELY that SE modified WARRIOR MAIN JOB voke to land more often in BALLISTA.

It is POSSIBLE that SE meant WAR MAIN 50+ IN BALLISTA generates more than /WAR IN BALLISTA, as it would explain the different effects of voke in there.

It does NOT work outside of BALLISTA, I know, and those tests just confirmed what I've also found with friends trying to figure out why our voke was different in BALLISTA.


I didn't say anything because it was kind of obvious, but thank you for correcting that Kirschinator.


P.S. IN BALLISTA

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2429/...e2ebfb1e2d.jpg

[Sho]

Nakie Kirschy

This is what I was thinking.

[Marcicus]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2429/...e2ebfb1e2d.jpg

Amazing.

[TummieGaruda]

It could also be that it was previously hinted at before in the earlier version of the game. On JP Button's Update History, it is noted in 2002:

Adjustments made to enmity for abilities like Provoke and Invincible.

It doesn't say exactly what the adjustments were, but it could be possible that there was an enmity difference between level 50 war and /war sub. Also lol@charm having a ridiculous amount of hate back then and PLD's subbing /BST and using charm to hold hate.

[Lahan]

I remember some crazy hate gen from chocobo mazurka for a while there too.

[Ezhno]

That's how I ripped Ullikummi off of RMT back when they owned sky. At least until they all learned to use blockaid so I couldn't get on their hatelist.

[Xellith]

Firstly. Hi.

Secondly. That information that I listed on wiki around a year and 1/2 ago was information gained from reading an interview transcript. All that the interviewer said was that Warrior gained an enmity boost for provoke over level 50.

If its not true today then its not true today. As of when it was posted as far as im aware, that information was correct. I'm fairly sure they have changed enmity values around a bunch since then so I'm not really surprised if that information is shown to be incorrect these days.

On a side note. Ive been trying to find that interview page, however I've not had much luck. I'm more or less just trying a few different Google searches looking for pages with provoke in the name. So far nothing. Even tried finding pages on CHR affecting provoke but even those seem to be kinda hard to find. My guess is that it will be a while before myself or anyone else happens to stumble across the interview if its still online anywhere.

Once again for the record. I did not get that information I posted on wiki from a players post. I got it from an interview transcript on some website a few years back. A few other people I know also remember that same transcript so It's not just me. (I cant actually confirm this unless they come to BG so bleh).

If its not true today then its not true today and I'm happy that someone has taken the time to fix it. However as of writing as far as going off what an interview stated that information was indeed fact.

Have fun with your flame wars kids.

[Kirschy]

Firstly. Hi.

Secondly. That information that I listed on wiki around a year and 1/2 ago was information gained from reading an interview transcript. All that the interviewer said was that Warrior gained an enmity boost for provoke over level 50.

If its not true today then its not true today. As of when it was posted as far as im aware, that information was correct. I'm fairly sure they have changed enmity values around a bunch since then so I'm not really surprised if that information is shown to be incorrect these days.

On a side note. Ive been trying to find that interview page, however I've not had much luck. I'm more or less just trying a few different Google searches looking for pages with provoke in the name. So far nothing. Even tried finding pages on CHR affecting provoke but even those seem to be kinda hard to find. My guess is that it will be a while before myself or anyone else happens to stumble across the interview if its still online anywhere.

Once again for the record. I did not get that information I posted on wiki from a players post. I got it from an interview transcript on some website a few years back. A few other people I know also remember that same transcript so It's not just me. (I cant actually confirm this unless they come to BG so bleh).

If its not true today then its not true today and I'm happy that someone has taken the time to fix it. However as of writing as far as going off what an interview stated that information was indeed fact.

Have fun with your flame wars kids.

I apologize my accusations. I jumped to the conclusion that you falsified the info, and it was rash. I still feel there should have been a verification tag w/o a link to the interview. The fact remains that the interview can't be found, and the information is false. (While it's possible it was ninja-changed, I find it unlikely they would nerf WAR main voke.)

[Byrthnoth]

I very vaguely remember an interview that said Provoke potency was proportional to Warrior level. It was taken by some to mean that Provoke changed as Warrior sub (or main if WAR) leveled up. Others interpreted it to mean that Provoke worked like Charm, where regardless of what job you were on your Provoke potency would be determined by your WAR's level.

I think I heard about this second hand because I believe this article is what caused one of my Paladin friends to level WAR to 75. In case you're not catching on to all the qualifications, I don't know if the thing actually exists anymore or if it ever existed. Xellith isn't necessarily full of shit though.

[dejet]

This came up in a thread on BG a few days back... It was just in random chat over I think job changes.

Can we just leave it be? tests show that its what it is. flat numbers that do not change as you lvl war. this interview was brought up in that thread too, so your guess is as good as mine if its real, then again it is more then likely that said person saw it and just posted it.

Whats is that NM with like a 120 day respawn time? lol

[Spekkio]

while this is somewhat of a stretch, it's also entirely possible that SE provided semi-misinformation regarding it. considering that provoke's enmity is static from 5-75 as we've seen above, their statement could also be taken to mean that the damage required to equal a provoke at lvl 75 or the HP cured to equal a provoke at 75 is vastly higher than at lvl 5. thus, relatively, provoke has become more powerful due to cures and damage generating less hate per point. this analysis would indirectly fulfill SE's statement as well as making sense with the data we know. it's deceptive, useless, and alltogether unhelpful information. we all know that using provoke on a mob in valkurm dunes isn't going to keep hate on us if a whm uses benediction but if they cure4 for the same HP at 75, they are fine. it's my hypothesis that SE was merely trying to state this fact in a circuitous fashion.

[Norellicus]

Not to stir the pot, but Kirschy's test only proves that 75 WAR Provoke has the same CE/VE amounts as Kaeko's /WAR test results -- but was the /WAR in Kaeko's test natively 75 WAR just subbing 37 or was he 37 WAR only?

Because anyone who's leveled Beastmaster can attest to charm being directly proportional to the total levels you've put into Beastmaster, and not your main job level/beastmaster sub level (i.e., a 75DRK/37BST who only has BST at 37 is probably going to have a hell of a time charming something his level; someone who has leveled BST to 75 and is just subbing it temporarily will likely have no problems).

[Kirschy]

Keako didn't have access to a 75 WAR for the test as he said earlier in this thread himself. So WAR 5/37 = 75 WAR. No one has been able to provide a link to the interview, so most likely it doesn't exist. No need for theorycraft or this'll degenerate into an AV thread. If the interview is found we should re-open the topic for discussion. For now, the myth was debunked and we can put it to rest~