Faith vs Spharai Parse data? Anyone have?

[Gtype954]

Was wondering the estimate on faith vs Spharai and if they are really close in DoT damage.

Didn't think anyone had shenlong's here but I was wondering if the shenlong's beat Spharai on certain mobs (like Mamool Lurkers for example).

I thought I seen a thread somewhere parsing how much certain h2h parsed in percentage against other h2h but I seemed to not be able to find that thread.
Thanks for your replies.

[Cyprias]

Could just use the what's better thread :/

[Starr]

Or the Random Question thread.

[pchan]

Was wondering the estimate on faith vs Spharai and if they are really close in DoT damage.

.

Faith are not very good in dot damage they just increase weapon skill frequency

[Gtype954]

Well i don't browse all the threads on BG, I only use the New standard thread.
As for a whats better thread, I actually wanted a complex math testof how much spharai wins by and such.

Pchan says they suck for DoT but I have gotten kills way faster with faith hands then with Destroyers in lets say giga in Upper delk tower. Not sure if thats from the extra WS freqency or what but just wondering the total damage from both weapons combined. I wrote DoT cause I know faith probably lose in WS damage by alot since its +9 DMG and +23 DMG +20 attack.... although spharai would possibly WS much less frequent then the faith hands.

Well i'll look for the other threads you suggested. Starr's thread probably does not exist because he is a troll from halvung.

[Onorgul]

Have you actually timed to see if your kills are faster? The multiple swings can produce a perception of speed when the actual difference may be marginal.

That said, I wouldn't be shocked if something as weak as those Gigas died more rapidly to Faith Baghnakhs (why in heaven's name would you farm Virtue Stones for them, though?) because they're really not meaningful targets and the gap between weapon efficacy closes as targets become weaker. There's no way that Faith Baghnakhs are going to out-perform Spharai under identical significant circumstances. The only way you'd do more damage with Faith Baghnakhs than Spharai is via enspell damage against an Invincible target.

[dantaro]

Didn't think anyone had shenlong's here

lol wut? Didn't think anyone here had Shenlong's? The first PW win was announced on BG first, as has pretty much every subsequent first kill by NA shells. I'd give you parse data but you're not asking Shenlong's vs Hades (+1) or Waghs for PUP so I'll just be confused why you'd think no one here has a pair.

And Pchan is right, Faiths just increase weapon skill frequency, the loss of +12 damage isn't going to be overcome by the double attack

[Gtype954]

I know apathy has shenlongs, I meant the ppl who were going to reply to the thread mostly do not have shenlongs. Yes Apathy announced PW dead on BG, but the ppl who obtained the shenlongs are not posters on BG.

I wanted a smart thread showing the percentage of h2h comparisons, Kanichan made a thread and I cannot find it anymore.
Not sure if you are saying destroyers outparse faiths or not in your post but faiths do outparse destroyers, they certainly get way faster kills on the mobs I solo.

I just really need the link to kanichan's thread on alla if kanichan can read this thread .
He has the total damage parse for every single hand to hand in the game that was over level 68

[TummieGaruda]

I know apathy has shenlongs, I meant the ppl who were going to reply to the thread mostly do not have shenlongs. Yes Apathy announced PW dead on BG, but the ppl who obtained the shenlongs are not posters on BG.

I wanted a smart thread showing the percentage of h2h comparisons, Kanichan made a thread and I cannot find it anymore.
Not sure if you are saying destroyers outparse faiths or not in your post but faiths do outparse destroyers, they certainly get way faster kills on the mobs I solo.

I just really need the link to kanichan's thread on alla if kanichan can read this thread .
He has the total damage parse for every single hand to hand in the game that was over level 68

Well parses in my opinion are ok if you can control the situation and by that I mean same gear and attacking the mob at the same time. There are too many variables to take into account sometimes (Casting shadows if subbing /NIN and DA rate if subbing /WAR). Working it out on paper should give you a general idea of which is better and for what situation.

[Lahan]

G type check PM

[Shamaya]

Gtype you honestly didn't come in here without expecting to be called retarded multiple times right?

If you want to go against the consensus that supports destroyers, you are the one who needs to come up with hard stuff (parses and math), not the other way around.

Your crit rate is already probably high on those Gigas, but aside from that, crits matter less on things with lower defense. Crits are going to be less important when you're soloing than when you're in a situation that actually matters. Similarly you'll see fStr differences for both melee and WS when fighting easier mobs, which will bring faith closer to other options than it would in a more difficult situation.. The absence of your ammo slot will matter less when solo, etc etc.

If they're close (as people say they are), what's more helpful is hard math--not a parse. Parses are your first attempt. If the parse makes it obvious that one item/setup/etc is way ahead of the other, you don't really need to get into the math. But if they're close (as things are in this situation), a parse is not what you want.

Similarly, anyone with time, wiki, a brain, and a calculator can tell you anything about Shenlongs that you want to know.

[Shinryuu]

From a blank D+7 Delay+113, with the assumption this weapon gains TP roughly at the same pace as a Delay+48 (less hits needed, more delay):

Faith:
- Straight +50% damage due to melee damage and WS frequency. Stones don't affect WS damage.

Destroyers:
- Delay reduction. Work the returns out like you would w/ haste (e.g. half delay wouldn't be +50% but +100% TP damage). Multiply this by TP/WS ratio.
- Ammo: 2.5% hitrate, 4 attack at most. Returns depend. Hitrate may not count for when Focus is up, or in your WS gear, so multiply accordingly.
- DMG difference; this will be the biggest increase. What's base H2H DMG w/ 8 merits for a MNK again? Multiply by TP/WS for regular DMG + fSTR and by WS/TP for DMG, fSTR and WSC.
- Crit+6%. Depends on your pre-Destroyers weighed pDIF. Multiply by TP/WS.

Bit of a tame answer but I'm eating, have work soon, and I lost my fucking calculator.

[Taint]

lol wut? Didn't think anyone here had Shenlong's? The first PW win was announced on BG first, as has pretty much every subsequent first kill by NA shells. I'd give you parse data but you're not asking Shenlong's vs Hades (+1) or Waghs for PUP so I'll just be confused why you'd think no one here has a pair.

And Pchan is right, Faiths just increase weapon skill frequency, the loss of +12 damage isn't going to be overcome by the double attack

Elien on Cerberus got Shenlong's the other day and said he was going to parse them. His MNK is pretty much capped. Next time I catch him online I'll ask about how they are working.

[pchan]

From a blank D+7 Delay+113, with the assumption this weapon gains TP roughly at the same pace as a Delay+48 (less hits needed, more delay):

First they are dmg+9, no big dfifference, that means you do about 20% less damage on melee and ws vs destro (very lousy speaking).

Faith:
- Straight +50% damage due to melee damage and WS frequency. Stones don't affect WS damage.

Incorrect, this weapon does more damage per round, but not 50% more total melee damage or ws frequency. With tose you will average about 5 melee rounds (versus ~8 for normal weapons) until weapon skill, but also this is done at a higher delay.

faith : 5 rounds at 413 delay, that's about 14 hits for 100 tps in 34 seconds, with fstr capped that's 53D so 20.0 dps. A weapon with D18 delay 348 will do about 16 hits in 8*348 delay, with 63D so about 21.7 dps. Of course this in neglecting KA, DA etc so in the end they'll have close dps though more weapon skill.

[Lahan]

This is an OLD post, and it is from one of those sites everyone here hates BUT, he did show all his work and it is well done this is what I was trying to PM to Gtype but he went off line.

H2H DPS.htm

I put it in my mediafire.
I saved those old "As vanadiel turns" episodes in there too they were hilarious but I digress.
This guys H2H charts show dps, tp returns delays ect ect was nicely done put here for you all to check out.

(I was not going to put it here because it was before Faith and Shenlong were out. But all the rest of the info is great)

[Hogie]

This is an OLD post, and it is from one of those sites everyone here hates BUT, he did show all his work and it is well done this is what I was trying to PM to Gtype but he went off line.

[ur]H2H DPS.htm[/url]

I put it in my mediafire.
I saved those old "As vanadiel turns" episodes in there too they were hilarious but I digress.
This guys H2H charts show dps, tp returns delays ect ect was nicely done put here for you all to check out.

(I was not going to put it here because it was before Faith and Shenlong were out. But all the rest of the info is great)

Are you saying its a site everyone here hates because my Anti Virus pops up saying it blocked some pop ups for illegal activity?

[Lahan]

No I have that page saved to my PC and used it a lot while I leveled MNK. There is nothing on it that I know of Mediafire wont add anything that I know of. It is just a web page i did "save page as" and "HTML only"

And my Symantec stops everything that I have ever found and it says that is fine.

the best part is at the end;
Spharai VS Destroyers VS Hades Sainti vs Hades Sainti +1

[DIABEETUS]

Interesting link, however he states that:

"This DOES NOT take any additional effects or hidden effects or stat bonuses in to account, that requires a parser, imo."

Well, ignoring stuff like acc+/counter+ etc and assuming -ideal- circumstances, the other effects that add to damage aren't accounted for, such as destroyers' crit+6%, and spharai's dmg bonuses and thus, to me anyway, makes the comparison completely pointless. It's assuming that those weapons are bare, no bonuses or stats, and is purely a DPS calculation. Not flaming or anything, it's still interesting, but unless I'm missing something, by ignoring the stats that increase damage, the comparison is pointless.

Anyways, inb4shit is situational.

On topic, imo, faiths vs destroyers will be relatively comparable on weaker mobs, on merit mobs, it depends on your acc, but I'm thinking destroyers will outparse faith. assuming capped acc. I don't think faith holds a contest to spharai ever, in any situation. Personally, the only time I ever use faiths is when I'm using hundred fists.

Also, I merit in hades+1.

[pchan]

spharai + pizza > everything
shenlong + meat > everything
faith + hundred fist > everything that's how I see it

[Vodou]

Was wondering the estimate on faith vs Spharai and if they are really close in DoT damage.

Didn't think anyone had shenlong's here but I was wondering if the shenlong's beat Spharai on certain mobs (like Mamool Lurkers for example).

I thought I seen a thread somewhere parsing how much certain h2h parsed in percentage against other h2h but I seemed to not be able to find that thread.
Thanks for your replies.

Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI

As for KI mnk forums, haven't seen much hardcore math done since Aurik and a few others stopped posting there.