Faith vs Spharai Parse data? Anyone have?

[Gtype954]

Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI

As for KI mnk forums, haven't seen much hardcore math done since Aurik and a few others stopped posting there.

Yea that was the alla post I was looking for thanks.

Was wondering about faiths earlier cause ppl say destroyers parse close to spharai and ppl also say faiths sometimes beat destroyers by a little bit.

People always call relics weak though like bravura and spharai, always comparing them to perdu V. and destroyers.

I have seen all 4 weapons. when wielded by the same exact person in the same exact gear, you can see that bravura and its amasing aftermath shit on Perdu voulge.
Me personally have seen destroyers parse close to spharai when wielded by 2 different people. However, when you use the same person on both destroyers and spharai and not 2 different mnks, you can see a very noticeable damage difference imo.
Same shit when comparing hagun to amano. People always say they parse very close but from what I'v seen, amano completely shits on hagun. (at least in merit parties and salvage, haven't seen them in action against HNMs where ppl say hagun is better).

Just wondering if the hard work for relic was really worth it in the end or if I could have just brought shenlongs /sigh and gotten amano instead.

Anyways, back to changing the subject... I hope I can upgrade a staff relic *cough in FF14 that is actually good....

[Shamaya]

I actually laughed reading "diabeetus" hah. It reminds me of that one commercial I always laughed at when I was in the states..

[Gtype954]

I actually laughed reading "diabeetus" hah. It reminds me of that one commercial I always laughed at when I was in the states..

well I like relic weapons so I like to compare the relic weapons to their non relic counterparts. But you absolutely contribute shit to my thread and instead call me retarded and talk about commercials to be a smartass.

How bout you get out of my thread and out of my states before I grab that hiromshima atomic bomb out of my basement and nuke you so hard that you won't be getting a raise from anyone. You piss me off to no end.

[Shamaya]

Well I am American, lol.

I'm just surprised that nobody called you out on saying "faith obviously does more damage than destroyers" or "I'm looking for parses" rather than more concrete theorycraft, among some of the other things you said. If the topic was more solid it'd be more suitable here than in 'what's better' or monk forums.

Regardless of whether or not you're skeptical of your purchase in general, you'll at least see situational use from the Spharai (if not all the time), as well as +counter and a (ever useful?) possible subtle blow aftermath, and /thf (assuming the WS is good for that). I will have to agree though that even if Spharai were better in general, the boost you get from it is marginal in comparison to many other relics.


If you don't think I contributed, read up and you'll see my ideas as to why you saw faiths performing marginally better in farming situations (fStr, crit, crit rate, ammo). I know you're being semi-sarcastic but the big head attitude will not help ya.

[chiyio]

coming from somebody who used to parse religiously with basically maxed gear, faith will beat destroyers easily.

This is at G. colibri camp, clearing all mobs (both before they changed the mobs and after, we cleared it regardless). I used to often xp with another maxed mnk (we both used our own outside PLs/hasters, and always partied with 2+(heh) bards)

if I had to afk to bio or whatever, I'd throw on faith after until I was ahead in the parse again. They would steadily overtake destroyers all other things being equal. (assumes capped accuracy on both mnks)

this is all a while ago, so some gear has changed. Usually double march, double attack for brd songs. spamming sushi like we were starving (if I'm under 85% accuracy in parse, I spam sushi, gtfo meat eating mnks a couple years ago) with full salvage gear, meat is probably better, but before that, dreaaaaaammmmm on.

unfortunately the only mnk I ever parsed against with relic was always geared for lowman/endgame, but I'd bet for merit situations faith beat relic.

[Shamaya]

Well here's a reference thread on this at least,
Faith Vs. Destroyers , but I don't see any parses or much math in it. Similar results on ki

[Vodou]

coming from somebody who used to parse religiously with basically maxed gear, faith will beat destroyers easily.

This is at G. colibri camp, clearing all mobs (both before they changed the mobs and after, we cleared it regardless). I used to often xp with another maxed mnk (we both used our own outside PLs/hasters, and always partied with 2+(heh) bards)

if I had to afk to bio or whatever, I'd throw on faith after until I was ahead in the parse again. They would steadily overtake destroyers all other things being equal. (assumes capped accuracy on both mnks)

this is all a while ago, so some gear has changed. Usually double march, double attack for brd songs. spamming sushi like we were starving (if I'm under 85% accuracy in parse, I spam sushi, gtfo meat eating mnks a couple years ago) with full salvage gear, meat is probably better, but before that, dreaaaaaammmmm on.

unfortunately the only mnk I ever parsed against with relic was always geared for lowman/endgame, but I'd bet for merit situations faith beat relic.

No. Faiths are neither easily better than destroyers (they are more or less equal), nor are they close to Spharai (much less beating them.) I'm intentionally ignoring the rest of your post.

[pchan]

coming from somebody who used to parse religiously with basically maxed gear, faith will beat destroyers easily.

85% accuracy

wwwwwwwww

if I had to afk to bio or whatever, I'd throw on faith after until I was ahead in the parse again. They would steadily overtake destroyers all other things being equal. (assumes capped accuracy on both mnks)

Faith are a bit less melee dot than destroyers,so no, also how do you switch mobs when going afk.. There is no way you can even keep up with another melee without using weapon skill. Faith let you do about 20% more weapon skill damage over time, that's it.

[Shinryuu]

First they are dmg+9, no big dfifference, that means you do about 20% less damage on melee and ws vs destro (very lousy speaking).



Incorrect, this weapon does more damage per round, but not 50% more total melee damage or ws frequency. With tose you will average about 5 melee rounds (versus ~8 for normal weapons) until weapon skill, but also this is done at a higher delay.

faith : 5 rounds at 413 delay, that's about 14 hits for 100 tps in 34 seconds, with fstr capped that's 53D so 20.0 dps. A weapon with D18 delay 348 will do about 16 hits in 8*348 delay, with 63D so about 21.7 dps. Of course this in neglecting KA, DA etc so in the end they'll have close dps though more weapon skill.

Compared to a blank D+9 Delay+113 weapon Faith simply does 50% more damage, minus a fraction caused by kick attacks perhaps. It's 50% more melee swings, 50% more weaponskills. The delay is a bonus for the Destroyers, that's why you compare them both to a blank D+9 Delay+113.

[Baelorn]

Typical Pchan being retarded

You do realize that +65 acc from gear and full merits doesn't cap MNK's acc on G Colibri right? 71+18 DEX, +65 Acc from gear and 292 Combat skill equals 392 accuracy or 87% acc. That's for a hume, by the way. But you can keep implying that his gear is bad(you know, since you don't actually have an argument).

Sometimes I wonder if you even play MNK. I hope not.

[Gtype954]

Compared to a blank D+9 Delay+113 weapon Faith simply does 50% more damage, minus a fraction caused by kick attacks perhaps. It's 50% more melee swings, 50% more weaponskills. The delay is a bonus for the Destroyers, that's why you compare them both to a blank D+9 Delay+113.

Even though faiths have +113 , they attack twice as fast as destroyers and the weird loophole about them is that since they are +113 delay, they give more drained HP per hit on drain samba 2 also.
Not gonna factor every subjob when talking about faith vs destroyers because they seem to beat each other on certain mobs but with /dnc sub, I notice faiths being easily better simply because the drain samba giving back ridiculous drain percentages at very fast paces and because you can WS like crazy and still use waltzes and sambas since you get TP so fast.
While using destroyers, drain samba 2 which uses about 25 TP I believe feels like an enternity to get that TP back to WS when soloing and you have no magical/song haste on.

Spharai sometimes seem to attack as fast as faith hands as silly as that may sound, (when you have hate). They counter so much and if you are fighting a mob that has fast delay or double/triple attack, that you see the counter animation being spammed along with attack rounds, double attacks of your own and kick attacks, its almost as if your spharai had no delay by the time the next round occurs.
As for Hundred Fists, I think Spharai would win. Faiths are only good imo because of their extremely fast attack speed, but since spharai will be attacking at what seems to be almost capped attack speed as well... then I would use those during hundred fists. During HF, the 3x dmg proc occurs frequently and the +23 DMG which is being spammed would most likely trump the +9 DMG faiths when the delay of both weapons seems to be almost the same during HF.
I believe faiths hands make WS double attack alot but I COULD be mistaken.
I notice how asuran fists averages 1000 damage on mobs and sometimes faiths do about 900 damage. (they average around 600-700 while destroyers average 1000-1200, but faiths seem to hit alot for 900ish, Would assume they DA on WS with the stones?)

So I read K's tests and they show that Spharai still beat Shenlong by about 5%.
Wish SE made Shenlong Piercing damage though. Would have been great for meripo too.

Now I would need to buy a pair of Hades Sainti +1 to see if those are better at soloing/lowmanning monsters. UFO or Jailer of Faith come to mind as lowmanning monsters. (inbe4 no faith torque or no gorget, as I have both.)

[Massimo]

You do realize that +65 acc from gear and full merits doesn't cap MNK's acc on G Colibri right? 71+18 DEX, +65 Acc from gear and 292 Combat skill equals 392 accuracy or 87% acc. That's for a hume, by the way. But you can keep implying that his gear is bad(you know, since you don't actually have an argument).

Sometimes I wonder if you even play MNK. I hope not.

Well, he's actually right. When they say "Maxed gear", I think he's picturing something like this:

http://i38.tinypic.com/2d0b58m.png

Which would put you a little above cap on the Lv82 birds as hume MNK, without Focus. Would be 91~92% with Destroyers instead of Hades.

[pchan]

You do realize that +65 acc from gear and full merits doesn't cap MNK's acc on G Colibri right? 71+18 DEX, +65 Acc from gear and 292 Combat skill equals 392 accuracy or 87% acc. That's for a hume, by the way. But you can keep implying that his gear is bad(you know, since you don't actually have an argument).

Sometimes I wonder if you even play MNK. I hope not.

A mnk can get 415+ accuracy so yeah they can cap... a "maxed out monk" that is.

[Shinryuu]

Maxed MNK gear on Colibri can hit 407 ACC but does it require Mithra w/ DEX merits for 5 more ACC without Hades(+1) or Shenlong's?

[Vodou]

Maxed MNK gear on Colibri can hit 407 ACC but does it require Mithra w/ DEX merits for 5 more ACC without Hades(+1) or Shenlong's?

I'm at 402 acc on Taru with Spharai. Mithra therefore could do it and someone with +acc on their weapon could do it.

415 would be doable, I imagine, with a mithra and hades for example

[Shinryuu]

What do you use?
-/-/-/Black
Usu/Ancient/-/Hollow
Usu/Usu/Tor/Tor
Cuch/-/Usu/Usu

Something like that?

[Lahan]

I believe faiths hands make WS double attack alot but I COULD be mistaken.
I notice how asuran fists averages 1000 damage on mobs and sometimes faiths do about 900 damage. (they average around 600-700 while destroyers average 1000-1200, but faiths seem to hit alot for 900ish, Would assume they DA on WS with the stones?)

To my knowledge Asuran Fists can not double attack, eight hits is the max per attack round.
I pretty sure the hits CAN crit, because it will work with Sneak Attack. That is why the destroyers squeek out a little ahead. (That and acc of course)

[Shinryuu]

No weaponskill can crit without SA, TA or MS unless specifically mentioned in the WS description (Hexa Strike, Rampage, Vorpal Blade, Raging Rush, Blade: Jin, Stringing Pummel, and some less stellar weaponskills).

[Lahan]

No weaponskill can crit without SA, TA or MS unless specifically mentioned in the WS description (Hexa Strike, Rampage, Vorpal Blade, Raging Rush, Blade: Jin, Stringing Pummel, and some less stellar weaponskills).

I was pretty sure it could not even crit, but the SA thing made me think twice.

(what is MS?)

[Shinryuu]

Mighty Strikes.

Sneak Attack, Assassin Trick Attack and Mighty Strikes simply force a critical hit for physical weaponskills, after which the WS follows the normal damage calculation (pDIF +1). That doesn't mean every WS can crit.