Church of Scientology Convicted of Fraud in France

[Mojo]

Again, that's a very obtuse and general way to compare religions. Acknowledging complexity and then failing to recognize it doesn't support your point either.

[Ksandra]

Showing praise is a way to control the minds of others to do what you want, which is power.

Someone wrote the bible, and has controlled the shape of history for a large portion of the worlds population.

That is powerful.


Mojo: Reality = a + bi?

I think not, I know how complex reality is, and religion ain't a part of it.

$cientology is an extremely expensive self-help course pure and simple. It was ran that way until Hubbard wanted tax write-offs and wrote the famous Xenu story. There are very very few people that even believe the story, they only seem to admit they do when the laws come into question, but if you ask them normally, they'll say it's just a story.

As it is the Xenu story is the only "religious" part of $cientology. You could almost call it just some wacko theory on how people are on this earth (it doesn't even go into how earth/live was created, just that we were thrown onto here.)

tbh I feel it would be the same as calling people who believed in Big Foot a religion.


By your logic btw Nazism would also be considered a religion. Hitler made up the concept that the jews are evil, and only white-blonde haired people are worthy to live, and he used fear to control people and gain power.


[edit] infact I guess believing in Bush must have been a religion too since he lied about WMDs to get people to believe in the war.


in orther words, whether you hate religion or not, don't just lump it in with simplicities that do not define them.

[Max™]

Again, that's a very obtuse and general way to compare religions. Acknowledging complexity and then failing to recognize it doesn't support your point either.

It is how someone with no religion compares them.

Do you think I should recognize the validity of fairy tales as well?

There is no difference to me between religion and fairy tales, except the reaction from the masses.


I do not have one, I will no longer entertain the idea that they may be correct, it is illogical in the extreme, and useless.

[zoobernut]

$cientology is an extremely expensive self-help course pure and simple. It was ran that way until Hubbard wanted tax write-offs and wrote the famous Xenu story. There are very very few people that even believe the story, they only seem to admit they do when the laws come into question, but if you ask them normally, they'll say it's just a story.

As it is the Xenu story is the only "religious" part of $cientology. You could almost call it just some wacko theory on how people are on this earth (it doesn't even go into how earth/live was created, just that we were thrown onto here.)

tbh I feel it would be the same as calling people who believed in Big Foot a religion.


By your logic btw Nazism would also be considered a religion. Hitler made up the concept that the jews are evil, and only white-blonde haired people are worthy to live, and he used fear to control people and gain power.

So the only difference I see between Scientology and other more mainstream religions is time. So many religions get a free pass for all the stuff they do not because it is more logical or any better than Scientology they have just been around longer.

Specially the part about self-help and not believing the story. There are a lot of people who use all the other major religions as self help courses pure and simple and don't believe the story flat out. I mean do you literally believe the bible to be true? Or do you understand it is just a story and use it as a guide to help you live a better life?

[Xno Kappa]

Fairy tales are fairy tales.

[Demosthenes11]

Showing praise is a way to control the minds of others to do what you want, which is power.

Someone wrote the bible, and has controlled the shape of history for a large portion of the worlds population.

That is powerful.


Mojo: Reality = a + bi?

I think not, I know how complex reality is, and religion ain't a part of it.

wow who let pretentious peter into this thread. the only thing I ever see you post is masturbatory posts about how smart you are and stupid other people are.
it's quite an old MO really

[Ksandra]

Do you think I should recognize the validity of fairy tales as well?

This has nothing to do with believing in them. I don't believe in fairy tales, science fiction, or fantasy stories, but I know the difference between the three...


You're allowing your hate of religion to make yourself ignorant about them.

[Max™]

So the only difference I see between Scientology and other more mainstream religions is time. So many religions get a free pass for all the stuff they do not because it is more logical or any better than Scientology they have just been around longer.

Specially the part about self-help and not believing the story. There are a lot of people who use all the other major religions as self help courses pure and simple and don't believe the story flat out. I mean do you literally believe the bible to be true? Or do you understand it is just a story and use it as a guide to help you live a better life?

What's that demo?


Is he doing the same thing I am?

Must someone be masturbating about how smart they are to DISBELIEVE SOMETHING WHICH LACKS REASON TO ACCEPT IT AS TRUE?


I'm not smarter than religious people, I'm just saner.

[Xno Kappa]

What exactly is the discussion here? At the end of the day they're all made the fuck up.

[Ksandra]

So the only difference I see between Scientology and other more mainstream religions is time. So many religions get a free pass for all the stuff they do not because it is more logical or any better than Scientology they have just been around longer.

Specially the part about self-help and not believing the story. There are a lot of people who use all the other major religions as self help courses pure and simple and don't believe the story flat out. I mean do you literally believe the bible to be true? Or do you understand it is just a story and use it as a guide to help you live a better life?

My comments were just a brief overview of the differences. Do you consider Yoga to be a religion? Dianetics is another form of spiritual health the same way as Yoga is. And when it was written Hubbard hadn't created Xenu yet.


And yes, sorry to say time is a factor, if we know for a FACT that Hubbard did it for tax write offs, why should be remain ignorant to that fact simply because we are not sure of the reasoning behind OTHER religions?

[Max™]

This has nothing to do with believing in them. I don't believe in fairy tales, science fiction, or fantasy stories, but I know the difference between the three...


You're allowing your hate of religion to make yourself ignorant about them.

I have stated this many times, I studied them for years.

I considered them as if they were true, I asked questions, I sought details, I sought to understand them as fully as I could.

I looked for god for a significant portion of my life.


I hate organized religion because it is evil to manipulate and seek power over people based on their belief of an outright lie.


If people just believed things but weren't coerced into following artificial laws with the threat of an eternal spanking, it wouldn't irritate me so much, as that is their right.


When people take those beliefs and use them to create a power base, that offends me deeply.


Learning about religion made me hate it.

[Demosthenes11]

What's that demo?


Is he doing the same thing I am?

Must someone be masturbating about how smart they are to DISBELIEVE SOMETHING WHICH LACKS REASON TO ACCEPT IT AS TRUE?


I'm not smarter than religious people, I'm just saner.

I can't believe you don't see the hypocrisy in your own posts. The world isn't a search for truth and reason and if you honestly, truthfully believe that it is then there is no argument to be had

[Max™]

I can't believe you don't see the hypocrisy in your own posts. The world isn't a search for truth and reason and if you honestly, truthfully believe that it is then there is no argument to be had

I don't believe anything.


My life has no meaning beyond that which I impose upon it.

I found it odd that I existed, and thus my life has been a search to understand how that could have happened.


People turn to religion for answers, but it has none, only an empty promise of them.

[Mojo]

stuff

Again, implying that 'power' or whatever concept you think you've reduced religion to is what defines a religion fails not only because it's a tremendous oversimplification (how religions impact their followers and the rest of the world extend lightyears beyond this scope) but because you could label almost anything as a religion with that definition.

Most of the other stuff you've said is irrelevant. Nobody cares if you went on some religious quest, that doesn't strengthen your point.

[zoobernut]

I don't think religions should get a free pass based solely on age. If you are willing to accept one religion I don't think it is ok to mock another and call it worthless. If you accept the possibility of one religion then all religions have equal validity and right to exist even if you don't believe in it and subscribe to them all.

Time does not make something true it just means it is old.

[Ksandra]

Learning about religion made me hate it.

Don't let that hate, however, make you lump everything together. Even if you studied, you are not even using the reasoning you seek to have. You are allowing broad connections to lump in anything you dislike into one word "religion". Just because $cientology is wacko, is not the only qualification to make it a "religion." Saying so is an ignorant statement, whether you studied other religions or not.

While I admit there is no definite definition of religion, I like and define it for myself the way wikipedia does:

A religion is a system of human thought which usually includes a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power, deity or deities, or ultimate truth.[1] Religion is commonly identified by the practitioner's prayer, ritual, meditation, music and art, among other things, but more generally is interwoven with society and politics. It may focus on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos and human nature) which may yield a set of religious laws, ethics, and a particular lifestyle. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience.

$cientology does not fall under this definition by the way it is run. And again it is well known that the Xenu story was created for tax purposes.

[Max™]

Again, implying that 'power' or whatever concept you think you've reduced religion to is what defines a religion fails not only because it's a tremendous oversimplification (how religions impact their followers and the rest of the world extend lightyears beyond this scope) but because you could label almost anything as a religion with that definition.

Most of the other stuff you've said is irrelevant. Nobody cares if you went on some religious quest, that doesn't strengthen your point.

I have studied every religion I've found, I have tried to believe in them while studying them, I have even convinced myself at times that I did believe in them.


Influencing the development of society in what you think is a moral way, and in what you think will result in the best possible society is a noble cause.

I am certain that was the driving force between many religions, in particular most judeo-christian beliefs, as you can tell by the various social taboos and social customs written into their fabric.

The entire concept of sin is a way of trying to encourage people to act in a manner more conducive to a productive and peaceful society.


The problem is, it is impossible to get everyone to believe the same thing, and it is impossible to get some people to believe anything.

[Demosthenes11]

People turn to religion for answers, but it has none, only an empty promise of them.

I have a hard time believing you studied religious for years and all your studies made you come to this conclusion.
I think you need to take a few psychology or cognitive science courses before you make these hilarious claims

[Mojo]

I have studied every religion I've found, I have tried to believe in them while studying them, I have even convinced myself at times that I did believe in them.


Influencing the development of society in what you think is a moral way, and in what you think will result in the best possible society is a noble cause.

I am certain that was the driving force between many religions, in particular most judeo-christian beliefs, as you can tell by the various social taboos and social customs written into their fabric.

The entire concept of sin is a way of trying to encourage people to act in a manner more conducive to a productive and peaceful society.


The problem is, it is impossible to get everyone to believe the same thing, and it is impossible to get some people to believe anything.

What does any of this have to do with Scientology or the point you attempted to make?

[zoobernut]

Don't let that hate, however, make you lump everything together. Even if you studied, you are not even using the reasoning you seek to have. You are allowing broad connections to lump in anything you dislike into one word "religion". Just because $cientology is wacko, is not the only qualification to make it a "religion." Saying so is an ignorant statement, whether you studied other religions or not.

While I admit there is no definite definition of religion, I like and define it for myself the way wikipedia does:



$cientology does not fall under this definition by the way it is run. And again it is well known that the Xenu story was created for tax purposes.

Since we don't know definitively WHY any religion was created (the age thing) I don't think it is fair to discount Scientology as a religion. For all you know Judaism began as some form of ancient way to dodge taxes or some equivalent.