Online Poker for Real Money

[Boyiee]

I know there have been threads asking about who plays and where before, so I figured I'd take it a step further and talk about those that play it for a second income, or a main income.

I frequent a few different casinos, sometimes weekly, sometimes only monthly, and have a 2nd bankroll I play with. Typically 1-2 and 2-5 cash games. Rarely I get into a tourney, but even when I go to play cash games I sit down around 9-10am and will play till 9-10pm if not longer. So needless to say, I'm not shitty at poker, I do pretty well. I don't use the bankroll as a 2nd income because it is selfsufficient, and because Atlantic City is 45minutes away and I just hate driving.

Lately, well, the past week or 2, I've been playing online poker. I've gone through about 800$ total over the past 2 weeks. I've tried a few sit n go's, and they just aren't working for me for whatever reason. I will get 2nd and 3rd place pretty often, but I just hate the amount of time they take. So I've been trying ring games (cash games), I typically buy in with 100-200$ and play either 0.50/1.00 or 1/2 tables, depending on which I buy in with. I do great after I think I have my reads down, I will get up 200, even 300$, but then people start playing like its "online" and not "real" money, or just a few quarters, and misplaying hands chasing, acting like donkeys, and really just playing bad poker. Hey, it works for them, can't complain, but it's just SO MUCH DIFFERENT when I'm not looking down the table, and seeing someones face or them playing with their chips... and I'm having trouble adjusting.

I do OK, but like I said, I'm used to real tables. I'd like to make online poker a 2nd income, and transfer my poker bankroll over to it so I don't need to drive anywhere. Losing the money I lost really isn't a problem, especially since the majority of it (about 600$) was lost on one hand... I boated on a turn in a hand that someone had quads on the flop, really unlucky.

Basically, I'm looking for tips from others that play at this level or higher. Certain types of games you look for, how many tables you run at once, etc. I know the online poker grind can go anywhere from a few hours a night for a 2nd minimum wage, to twice the hours of a full time job per week. Are sitngo's the place to be? Are ring games good since it's my niche anyway, as long as I don't go overboard on a hand when I'm up? Play until you have a good positive, then when a table starts catching on move to another table?

6Handed games have been good to me, it's quicker and more aggressive, however I've noticed one player that played really loose and would constantly OVER reraise preflop and on the flop just to buy the hand, and he was consistantly up a few hundred. He was easy to beat if you re-raised back or went all in but I've tried this type of play and wondering if it actually works for anyone else. By over-reraise, I'm talking a 0.50/1.00 table, if 2 people call a 3.50 raise preflop, he will come over the top with 15 forcing folds. If it goes to the flop, and a bet isnt more than 10$, he will make it 20-40. It's dangerous play, but is this what works online?

Thanks for any information you can provide. If you'd like, feel free to PM me. I'll probably deposit another 200-300 on fulltilt tomorrow, and I'll be starting from $0 for the week, so I'd like to know where and how is the best way to distribute that first few hundred so that it doesn't go to quick. Making big bucks is not my concern, I just want that initial deposit to stay in there for more than a day or 2, if it ends up being a 2nd minimum wage than thats good as well. But I'm not looking for quick cash or quick income schemes, that type of thing wont work.

[wipers]

My suggestion is save your money and not play online poker.

[thestalkmore]

Don't underestimate the people who are surprising you. You're playing for what are (online) reasonably high stakes (1-2 certainly is). Go down to the .10/.25 tables and you'll find plenty of extremely capable players as well. The 1-2 players are, by and large, people who have proven their mettle long enough to stick around. Chumps who have no business in those stakes just don't last long.

I would reconsider sit n' gos as they are generally softer and are frequented by donks a lot more than the cash games are. Omaha tables are also incredibly soft if you know how to play well. I don't know exactly what you're asking for here, so if you can try and clarify I'll do my best to help you out.

[Thoronas]

If you aren't using one already I'd suggest getting one of those hubs that goes over your table online and tracks the hands of your opponents. It won't make a big different early on but if you stick with one level and see a lot of the same people it will be good to know how often they raise preflop, tendencies post flop, etc.

[Omnipotent]

Online poker is the easiest shit to make money if you have patience. I make 1-200 a week for week ass playtime. All you do is go to a >1 sit and go table. Wait till you get a good hand, call blinds with decent hands, and that's it. You are bound to catch a good hand. Another good tactic is the 5 dollar or whatever 10 man table with the top 5 get double their money. Same concept.

[Stiker]

When I do decide to play, I've always had my best luck at sit and go's and do fairly well on them.

As far as cash games go, I've wandered into $1/$2 once and haven't gone back. I stay around .10/.25 more often than not. I've found that as far as online poker goes the typical "real world" mentality goes out the window.

For instance, if you use the bankroll theory of buying in enough for 100 big blinds, and allowing your bank roll to be either 10 or 100 times that -- I've found it goes out the window online. The reason is (IMO), people that play online play multiple tables, meaning their actual bankrolls (if they are smart and trying to make money) are quite a lot larger than you'd expect.

Anyone that I've talked to with any money making success in online poker plays retardedly aggressive. I mean, making moves that make no fucking sense at all like what you are talking about. If they happen to lose a big hand, it is a drop in the bucket as they have a lot more to fall back on than you think.

[Takedown3]

i play live poker for a second income, but i don't play as much as i used to. Used to play at least 3 times a week at the casino that is about 45 mins away.

after all was said and done i was up about 3k over the several months that i played. it was doing a number on me both physically and mentally, 12-18 hour sessions 3 times a week is pretty tough even tho it doesnt sound like much it can be trying especially when you are playing live

i havent had the urge to play online for a "career" as it just doesnt seem as safe as driving to a casino. i could just sit here and stare at my screen and plug my credit card number in as many times as i want if im on a bad run but when im at a casino it's easier for me to get up and leave without hitting the bank machine again since it's a fairly decent drive home

i play 1-2 and 2-5 NL full ring and sometime will play the 5-10 Limit tables if NL is full or the list is too long.

tournaments are pretty weak at the casino's since most of them are sitngo style with small stacks and fast blind increases, rather just wait for good cards at a cash table

online poker imo is asking for bad beats, like your example with the turned boat against the flopped quads, nothing you can really do in this case but thats how online poker is. bad beats everywhere you look and tons of donks as you also mentioned, people getting hammered at there PC and just clicking there money down the drains. the law of averages will eventually catch up with you but usually you are gone or on tilt so u gotta watch out

imo stick with driving to the casinos, its more fun, u get to see hot bitches in sweet digs and you can get drunk for free if thats your thing (altho i avoid more then 1 or 2 drinks when im out)

[Takedown3]

also check out Online Texas Holdem Strategy | Play Texas Holdem Online | Poker Forum very cool poker forum with everything you need to know about every poker game out there be it live or online

[Hex]

I like online poker but for the most part I find it a trap waiting to happen. Anyone who's played it enough knows that the games allow ppl to suck out more than they would in a real name. I pretty much live off playing small Stud and Hold em games at local bars and the such in my area.

There's a guy who recently won 80k from Pokerstars. I may have the amount and site wrong, memory a little hazy. They refuse to pay the guy because they accused him of using a bot. He sued saying that they use their own programs to rig the games and have cards come out against the odds. So be careful with any programs you may use to get any type of advantage.

I have a buddy who lives off Omaha H/L. Makes 12-20k a year playing small games online. Doesn't seem like much but he's handicapped so it's a nice boost to his income.

But again, online game has a lot of bullshit players who play bullshit hands. People who will raise or call out of the fact they're butt hurt that you reraised them. Then they'll sucker out and you'll lose your cool. You wanna start small and build your game plan by watching how people play. If you don't use that HUD to watch people make your own notes. Watch how they play. Patience is the biggest key to online poker.

[kisada]

first, don't listen to anyone who tells you online poker is rigged or w/e. online poker is just a different culture from live poker. people play far more aggressively, games beyond 1/2 are 3-bet crazy preflop, and the best players tend to grind it out online.

second, if you are gonna deposit only 300 bucks, make sure you're playing an appropriate limit. standard bankroll management dictates you have 15-20 buy ins for the level you're playing. so the most you should be playing is .10c-25c NL and even then that's beyond your bankroll.

third, if you really wanna get better, you need to do 3 things. you get the proper tools to review and analyze your sessions and hands. holdem mananger is fantastic and light years ahead of every single program out there. you also should be posting on poker forums, so check out twoplustwo.com and read and post hands there. anytime you have a hand that you felt lost in, or just wondered if you coulda played better, post the hand in the forums. slowly you'll cover up those lost spots and figure out where your leaks are and eventually turn into a winning player. finally, either find coaching, or poker buddies who play the limits you're playing. talking to other players really accelerates your learning curve. coaching can be expensive depending on whom you get, so it's probably not the best idea if you are cash light. but having someone watch you play can really get you in the right place.

btw if you're interested in trying out sites other than full tilt, send me a PM. i can get you connected to a good rakeback program which'll eat some of your rake costs and be retrievable every day (a must have).

[Boyiee]

The donkeys playing bullshit hands is why I figured I'd play 1/2. Since I also play 1/2 at casino's and 2/5, it didn't seem to pose a threat. My impression was that most of the kids, donkeys, whatever, play the .10/.25 or .25/.50 and call pretty much everything to the river because "hey, it's just a few quarters, I can afford it" where at the 1/2 it was, "hmm, 50$? should I call?".

But I guess my interpretation was wrong. My question and reason for starting the thread was that I was wondering what games people play that actually play for somewhat of an income. It seemed to be 1/2 for me, and still seems like it, I just got ass raped at a table unfortunately. I wanted to see if I should stay there or not, and if other games or blind amounts were better for consistent play.

Mentioned before was <1 sit n go's, I see a lot of people going all in with shit as if its facebook poker because of the same mentality I mentioned "its only a dollar". You also mentioned 5 or 10 double or nothing tables, which I think only pokerstars has (at least fulltilt doesnt have it). Those were great for me several months ago, I would do 4x 20$ double or nothings and always place - but pokerstars tried to take extra money from me that I never used so I never logged in again.

I'll reconsider sit n go's, since I'm going to buy in with 200-300 I guess I'll just do 5$ and 10$ at most, 9man games. I wasnt happy with multi table, and the matrix games are fun but less profitable (although less of a net loss). I'll retry ring games at a smaller blind level. My preference in casino's may be 1/2 and 2/5 but if thats more of a high stakes online and where I will find players that I don't want to run into, then I'll wait to jump back into those. I did love the .50/1.00 tables, especially the 6handed, as the money went up quick, but we'll see what happens with the lesser ones. It did seem as if the people playing .50/1. and 1/2 online had infinite buyins now that you mention it. There were several people that rebought faster and more often to 100-200$ at a time than I see in AC.

[kisada]

yeah, people play way better and are far more sophisticated online than live, when comparing the same limits. i think someone made the comparison that playing online is like playing 2x or 4x the limit live.

as a general rule, you meet the daily grinders and start running into sophisticated, thinking players at 1/2 in any big bet game. there is typically a stark contrast between 100 buy in games and 200 buy in games online.

[Titanss]

what does everyone think of Ivey at the final table.. fucking epic

[Plow]

The 2 biggest things to making it profitable are having a record of people's tendencies as mentioned, and being aware of how people are behaving towards blinds in general.

Where it's not abnormal at all for people to only come in with a raise on a live table, on low stakes internet tables, 90% of the players are either bots or people that think they're Phil Helmuth but are really quite retarded. This means they want to play every hand, but they want to get in at the price of the big blind on every hand.

What that often results in is basically people being "offended" by pre flop raises, and starting to play like idiots, charging up the bets with trash just chasing raw luck. It can also go bad for you, if either they catch some luck, or someone who you don't have a good record on starts acting semi-retarded but really isn't, and catches you up.

Honestly $1-2 is pretty high to start out with, I'd even advise going to .01/.02 tables, getting a feel for the level of idiocy, and then moving up as you get used to it.


I tend to stay away from the tourneys, s&g are ok for the most part, anything with rebuys on the low stakes end is likely to be retarded as hell.

[Stiker]

I tend to stay away from the tourneys, s&g are ok for the most part, anything with rebuys on the low stakes end is likely to be retarded as hell.

Dear Lord, this.

It is the same problem you run into with the seemingly infinite bankroll players on low stake tables. They go in, knowing they can rebuy repeatedly and they will chase and chase in order to get a huge stack.

I did an online rebuy tourney once and knocked out two people within 5 minutes, just to watch them rebuy again. Then the same players got busted by other folks at the table and they rebought again, and again... They weren't hard to predict, they'd raise like idiots and go all in with nothing, but it is frustrating as hell if you actually like to play.

[Plow]

inc bad beat story

I did a $5 rebuy tourney one time where I had either pocket aces or ak suited or some shit, and 2 guys were going all in every hand, so I went for it and won, and then ended up at final table. I had paid $10, $5 to start then $5 addon (not rebuy). First place was like 600ish, 3rd was like 250, huge drop from there.

Anyway, one of those idiots was at the final table. I think I was 2nd in chips, and he was like 5th. So, I had j10 suited, blind was like 300, I think I had about 35k chips, and I put it at 1k before the flop.

So, flop comes Q9K. Flopped a straight. So I bid a moderate amount, like 5k, which was about pot size. Idiot follows, so does one other guy. Turn is blank, bid like 15k, which is about current pot size... they both follow.

River comes 10. I'm like well shit, hope I don't have to split pot. Go all in... they both follow...


Idiot had AJ. With no flush draw. Followed me to river with absolutely nothing at all but an inside straight draw, with all his chips essentially committed on the turn. He wins.

I get KQ suited the next hand and I'm small stack so I go all in, and lose. Out at 8th getting like $60 when I should have had a HUGE chip lead.


I LOVE POKER. *sigh*

[Cat]

The general rule for bankrole management is you should have ~20 buyins for whatever stake you are playing. If you really dont want to grind out the micros, and are comfortable at 1/2 live, you could probably start at the .10/.25 tables. 25NL online is roughly the skill level of live 1/2, but you should be aware that players are much better online in general.

Don't play more than 4 tables if you're trying to get better, and certainly don't play multiple tables without some kind of tracking software (pokertracker and holdem manager are the popular ones).

[Nchabazam]

Online poker is really hard... the games at basically all levels have professionals of some sort. Obviously the micro stakes games (.05/.10 NL, .25/.5 limit etc) have lots of terrible players as well, but even those have people trying to grind out some spare cash or a living in a poorer part of the world.

Something like 1/2 NL online is full of a lot of very very good players, most of whom would probably be better than anyone in a local 5/10 NL game at a casino. I play a lot of 3/6 and 5/10 limit hold em online (and have been making like $50 an hour for my last 70,000 hands multitabling)... and basically every table I've sat at in that time period has been harder than any live 20/40 table I've sat at... for the most part it's not even close. So don't try to play a similar level at all online because you'll just end up getting crushed.

Games are very aggressive, in NL games 3betting and even 4 betting pre flop become very common at stakes as low as .10/.25 NL. At something like 1/2 or 2/4 NL most hands don't even see a flop and players very very regularly get it all in pre flop (a hand like AQs/99 becomes almost an auto all in at those levels for 100 big blinds). Players don't limp very often, and good players will essentially never ever limp. I haven't been the first person to limp in a hold em game since party poker was serving US players.

Anyways if you actually want to learn to make some money playing cards then there are a few things you should do. The twoplustwo.com forums are an invaluable learning tool (read/respond to strategy posts to get a feel for how to play). Also it's important to get a tool like hold em manager (I recommend this one) or pokertracker which will keep track of your hands so you can review them later, and uses a HUD to keep track of other player's stats on the tables making it way easier to get a feel for what players are aggressive, passive, who are playing very loose pre flop, tight... etc. Especially useful for multitabling and at lower stakes where the player pool is so big.

Also if you seriously get into it then you really need to subscribe a training site. These have tons of videos from big winning online pros either going into hand histories in depth or will just show them playing a session and discussing why they make certain decisions and other general strategy. For example deucescracked.com is a fantastic site. Books can also be good if you're really quite new and are missing out on many of the basic concepts, but you need to be careful since 90% of books are very bad, and will often give terrible advice that you'd be better never having read.

And I'd suggest NL hold em or pot limit omaha cash as the best thing to get into at this point. 6 max games are probably best to learn as well since full ring games tend to die out as you go up in stakes. Sit and gos become incredibly hard at even medium stakes and have a pretty steep rake since it's essentially a solved game (the hands you should shove/call in certain pay out structures, # of players left, # of big blinds left can be determined by something called the ICM). They're soft at low stakes though. But no matter what you do start at low stakes and work your way out... like very low stakes. If you start with $200 online you could play the .05/.10 levels with 20 buy ins, then move up to .10/.25 when you have $500... and drop back down if you fall back below $200. Bank roll management is a vital skill to ever making it in online poker, the swings are worse than you can imagine... tougher/more aggressive games= higher swings.

[Boyiee]

btw if you're interested in trying out sites other than full tilt, send me a PM. i can get you connected to a good rakeback program which'll eat some of your rake costs and be retrievable every day (a must have).

Is anyone else using Rakeback sites/programs?

[Mistress Stowastiq]

I used to play Pokerroom.com when I got tired of going to casinos (read: can't go to casinos because I am a slot machine freak). I stopped because online poker became illegal for cash in my state (California). All the casinos sent members letters saying they were closed for real cash business.