Jailer Of Prudence Lowman

[Suiram]

Well, the reason I was emphasizing the thing about solo-popping wasn't about hate mechanics as much as claim mechanics (although you're absolutely right that if you're in a party with someone who happens to be resting it will fuck up the hate, too). But something about certain NMs--I think it might be due to a combination of being a pop-NM plus having alliance hate--will cause strange behavior with claim as well.

For instance on Kirin, let's say you spawn it in a party with 2 people (have done this in the past often when killing with a smaller group, to kite it with null-hate--one super-tank and one support--while the others take down summons and then join to kill Kirin). If the first person dies, it will turn and have hate on the 2nd person, but will be unclaimed. Then if the original person raises up, the second person dies, and the first person re-aggros, he will automatically turn red again even though they didn't touch him. (It's something like this, maybe the person has to raise up after the 2nd one dies, I can't recall, but the important part is that he will turn claimed again even without touching). You see a similar thing if you try to solo certain mission NMs and certain other pop NMs and die. The moment you raise up they automatically reclaim to you. Anyway, this is the reason you want to have the kiter pop Prudence solo until the other is claimed, because if you don't, something about being in a party can occasionally cause the other to automatically turn claimed in line with the behavior I just described, even if everyone does what they're supposed to do.

[pchan]

2 reraise earrings will do it.

[Hanyoko]

In order to realistically separate them the poper needs to be solo. If your doing a kite team, party up after JoP has spawned and the main alliance claimed the one they need to.

[drwaffles]

Well, the reason I was emphasizing the thing about solo-popping wasn't about hate mechanics as much as claim mechanics (although you're absolutely right that if you're in a party with someone who happens to be resting it will fuck up the hate, too). But something about certain NMs--I think it might be due to a combination of being a pop-NM plus having alliance hate--will cause strange behavior with claim as well.

For instance on Kirin, let's say you spawn it in a party with 2 people (have done this in the past often when killing with a smaller group, to kite it with null-hate--one super-tank and one support--while the others take down summons and then join to kill Kirin). If the first person dies, it will turn and have hate on the 2nd person, but will be unclaimed. Then if the original person raises up, the second person dies, and the first person re-aggros, he will automatically turn red again even though they didn't touch him. (It's something like this, maybe the person has to raise up after the 2nd one dies, I can't recall, but the important part is that he will turn claimed again even without touching). You see a similar thing if you try to solo certain mission NMs and certain other pop NMs and die. The moment you raise up they automatically reclaim to you. Anyway, this is the reason you want to have the kiter pop Prudence solo until the other is claimed, because if you don't, something about being in a party can occasionally cause the other to automatically turn claimed in line with the behavior I just described, even if everyone does what they're supposed to do.

Something even stranger happened to me at Despot once. I popped it solo and got cocky at low HP trying to finish it off quickly, so it managed to kill me with its ranged TP spam that it does (embarrassing, I know) - as soon as I Reraised it reclaimed to me instantly and killed me again. I HP'd and ran back to sky, and as I was running down the central path where Despot's placeholders are I saw it running back towards me from the other end where I had been kiting, again claimed and aggressive to me.

I'm not sure this anecdote has any significance, but I thought it was pretty wacky.

[hypnotizd]

Despot will automatically claim to whoever popped it if you are within 25 or 30' of it. Even if you die and it goes passive and you reraise within that area. I'm guessing you got to close to it when you were running where its placeholders were and it automatically claimed to you again. I'm pretty sure this has always been its behavior since they patched it however many years ago.

[hypnotizd]

I'm pretty sure people pop outside of alliance because there seems to be some sort of alliance hate otherwise? (as was said). So just pop outside next time.

It's also really fun to low man it around a bush :D

Pretty much this. If you pop in a party both copies will have party hate. You can try dragging one copy away but it can decide to go after someone else on its hate list. Even if you successfully pull it far away and lose aggro yourself, it won't go passive and walk back. It will still be going full speed attempting to get to the next person on the list. Popping solo prevents anyone else from being on its list so when you lose aggro it will go passive and slowly walk back for three minutes before depopping.

[ZhiGaruda]

Something even stranger happened to me at Despot once. I popped it solo and got cocky at low HP trying to finish it off quickly, so it managed to kill me with its ranged TP spam that it does (embarrassing, I know) - as soon as I Reraised it reclaimed to me instantly and killed me again. I HP'd and ran back to sky, and as I was running down the central path where Despot's placeholders are I saw it running back towards me from the other end where I had been kiting, again claimed and aggressive to me.

I'm not sure this anecdote has any significance, but I thought it was pretty wacky.

Replace wacky with absolutely ROFL-worthy, and you've got a hit right there. I would piss myself if I zoned into sky only to see a red despot running at me.

[Xeca]

the rdm/nin kite isnt bad i have done it cupple times just need becarful of how your doing it and to not messup and have the copy run back to the ally on ya

[Stellar]

We did Prudence a few days ago with 4 people (5 chars), 1 dual boxing Rng and Whm. The setup worked quite well..

Thf/nin
Rng/nin
Rdm/nin
Smn/sch

Whm/sch (Didn't do much of anything, was dual boxxed)

Thief split prudence on this pop, but thief is not necessary. This could probably even be done without powder boots, but I would use them to be safe. I personally have split before as Rdm/war with no crimson cuisses (with powder boots). (/nin may have worked better. He hit harder closed-mouth than I was expecting.. 70-100 per hit with tav taco, defender and 27 dmg phalanx) pic of damage taken as rdm/war...


Beforehand, I'll usually walk 50' west of the area you plan to kill prudence (bush works nicely, be wary of running into other party mates), then walk for around 2 minutes west with dusk on to get a rough idea of where I can leave/zone/die/warp, whatever, while knowing the prudence copy will not make it back within linking reach of his other half. It seems to depop in around 2.5 mins...

Anyways, Thf turned out to be quite an asset during our fight. He collaborator'd primarily the ranger, while I did wind blades as SMN, and the RDM kept bio II or III active. (Dia might have been better but w/e) With 5/5 Matk and 5/5 Wind Blade merits I did 841 per BP. The Thf held hate pretty much the entire time without and problems and kited around the bush. Once we had this strategy going smooth, we took him from 50 => 0% in about 15-20 minutes. I would expect around an hour fight total, maybe as low as 30-45 minutes once you get things going really smooth.

Here's a link to a video that doesn't really show much, cept my crappy smn, but maybe will help a bit.. Lol. Prudence Video

Oh, I released quickly after my BP's to avoid JOP from getting TP off of wacking my avatar. Rapid Molt is pretty annoying and some of his others are rather dangerous..

Good luck!

[Thorny]

did you really need to bump this for a 5man hour kill?

2 rdm can kill it in less than 30 min..

[Stellar]

Oh, so sorry for putting this thread in front of your ever important advanced discussion viewing. I know it was a horrible inconvenience to you and completely understand how typing that response was more convenient than skipping the viewing line. I apologize profusely for my inadequate understanding of what you understand as easy, is relative to everyone on the forums. Now I know that everything that can be duo'd by 2 rdm/nin's no longer needs to be discussed in any form or fashion, since Thorny knows it's feasible. Thank you so much for providing this invaluable insight. =]

I would also like to see it done in 30 minutes by 2 Rdms. I'm sure you have evidence considering you know it as fact. Do you mind posting the screens of your kill?

[Thorny]

no screenshots, not sure what's hard to believe though.. it's normal run speed when it's not PDing and any idiot can kite it forever + pop powder boots on PD

has jack shit resistance and takes 2.5% a nuke, 40 nukes = 1/minute per rdm with 10 min to pull

my point was that the second post of the thread outlined a very easy to replicate duo strategy and you bumped it weeks later to talk about 5manning..

[ZhiGaruda]

Oh, so sorry for putting this thread in front of your ever important advanced discussion viewing. I know it was a horrible inconvenience to you and completely understand how typing that response was more convenient than skipping the viewing line. I apologize profusely for my inadequate understanding of what you understand as easy, is relative to everyone on the forums. Now I know that everything that can be duo'd by 2 rdm/nin's no longer needs to be discussed in any form or fashion, since Thorny knows it's feasible. Thank you so much for providing this invaluable insight. =]

I would also like to see it done in 30 minutes by 2 Rdms. I'm sure you have evidence considering you know it as fact. Do you mind posting the screens of your kill?

Lol, screens of the kill. Why are you acting like this is hard? Thorny posted the original strategy in the second reply to this thread, maybe you'd like to go back and re-read it. It's childs play.

[Stellar]

Well, I don't have wyrmal legs and my friends weren't comfortable using Rdm as a tank/kiter. I know, I know. The whole game is so easy.. Everything always works out exactly as written on paper. I am horrible at it because sometimes I get less than 25k/hr while I merit and use more than 2 Rdm's to kill things In my vast inferiority, I struggle believing that 2 Rdm's are capable of the complete kill, start to finish, in 30 minutes. Therefor I would like for the amazingly skilled and versed players to help provide me with proof, so my lackluster brain can comprehend the possibility.

I read the strategy, tried to adjust to fit my parties specific availabilities, and had trouble until I understood a few aspects my ignorance gave me trouble with, prior to personal experience.

From now on I will assume that every post should be considered from the viewpoint of multiple skilled Rdm/nin's with Crimson Cuisses in order to prevent such ignorant postings as those previous. My apologies!

[Darkdoom]

Mad much? Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it's not possible.

[Stellar]

Mad much? Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it's not possible.

Yes, I'm extremely mad at this forum because of my inability to already have crimson cuisses prior to reading this thread! I also am very mad that I don't have skilled Rdm/nin friends.. so mad.. gonna shoot EVERYONE! <call4>

(Interesting how "poidh" is such a common and accepted phrase, except in this scenario of course. It's not necessary, because you guys just pwn too much!)

[Thorny]

Yes, I'm extremely mad at this forum because of my inability to already have crimson cuisses prior to reading this thread! I also am very mad that I don't have skilled Rdm/nin friends.. so mad.. gonna shoot EVERYONE! <call4>

(Interesting how "poidh" is such a common and accepted phrase, except in this scenario of course. It's not necessary, because you guys just pwn too much!)

it's not necessary because it's not exactly an unreasonable claim

hey guys, anyone gonna call me out on killing leaping lizzy in sub-10 seconds next?

bio 3 = 8/tick, 160/min, 3200 damage for 216 mp

leaves 16800 damage, at 600 bliz3 that's 28 nukes.. at 400 it's 42

42 * 120 = 5040 mp spent

800 starting + 2 converts @ 800 each = 2400 mp
x2 rdms = 4800 mp

dchap/dalm/refresh = 100/minute
* 20 minutes = 2000 mp
x 2 rdms = 4000 mp
- 183 mp composuring those buffs per rdm

8434 total mp - 216(bio) - 5040 = 3178 mp for self preservation on a normal run speed mob

what next, going to argue you can't do the pull in 10 minutes? seriously, shit's not hard..

[Stellar]

He never uses a TP move? Never regens via rapid molt? Wow.. used it quite a bit vs. us..

[Aurara]

damn...im gonna have to try this sometime lol

[Stellar]

Please take pics or video when you do.

In the time Thorny spent and failed to succeed in proving to me what happens in theory always happens in practice, he could have just killed the thing and made lots of moneyzzz...

Oh man, forgot every Rdm has Dalmatica and Duelist's Chapeau cept me.. My failness aura is radiating larger with each pulse of the BG leetness veeeeiiiiinnnn...