Registered Sex Offenders

[Demosthenes11]

dear god let's shut down jails because there are innocents there too!

tax dollars is a lolable argument too...it's the easiest computer program ever. Ex-felons already have to register every time they change their residence and their job so it's not costing any money at all, just takes 5 seconds to pop it into the computer. Complaining over that ground has no base.

stop pussy footing around it and just say it's a violation of people's civil liberties already. That's a defensible argument - not "it costs $20,000 a year to maintain!!!" or "some innocents would still be on there!"

[Cream Soda]

Now if there were a group that wanted to go out and pass this information for free (and have the chance to get the shit sued out of them for defamation of character, provided they can be proven wrong), then feel free to do w/e u want, but I don't see why see we should pay w/ our own tax dollars (which I'm assuming we are) to prevent potential abuse to some and just have others walk right into it in their place.

[Cream Soda]

dear god let's shut down jails because there are innocents there too!

tax dollars is a lolable argument too...it's the easiest computer program ever. Ex-felons already have to register every time they change their residence and their job so it's not costing any money at all, just takes 5 seconds to pop it into the computer. Complaining over that ground has no base.

stop pussy footing around it and just say it's a violation of people's civil liberties already. That's a defensible argument - not "it costs $20,000 a year to maintain!!!" or "some innocents would still be on there!"

About as lolable as thinking this list actually does any good. Like I said, you may look up a neighborhood before looking in and choose not to move into a house because of your neighbor, but what happens when you don't move in? That house isn't going to remain empty for eternity. Someone else will eventually move in and they are in the same "risk" as you.

Same risk, different person. The same number of people are in risk as before, the number doesn't lower. The list does no good.

And while, naturally, you care about yourself more than whoever else may move in, in everyone else's eyes, you are both just another family.

[Serjero]

My question would be then, assuming they removed the eyeroll worthy people from the list (such as the 'pissing in a bush' type), is the list concept still bad? I feel like this debate keeps getting sidetracked because of that point. Yeah, the list is definitely flawed, but are people against it because it is flawed, or would they be against the idea even if the list was 'perfect' and only included serious offenders who pose a legitimate potential threat to others?

Also, people apparently need to level up their ninja urination skills...

The list is still bad because its usefulness is minimal at best and is rarely used in a responsible manner. You could also argue that the existence of the list and being forced to register as an offender is cruel and unusual punishment especially when there is no list for other violent crimes. I'd be okay with a list under the circumstances that all (and only) violent crimes, not just those of the sexual nature, are counted for and that you only need to register for a certain period of time (3-5 years for example, it can be based on the recidivism rate of the particular crime or something) and then they no longer have to register for the list.

*Edit* I still think the list is rather useless overall but if people must have a list this would be the only one I think is fair.

[Demosthenes11]

About as lolable as thinking this list actually does any good. Like I said, you may look up a neighborhood before looking in and choose not to move into a house because of your neighbor, but what happens when you don't move in? That house isn't going to remain empty for eternity. Someone else will eventually move in and they are in the same "risk" as you.

Same risk, different person. The same number of people are in risk as before, the number doesn't lower. The list does no good.

And while, naturally, you care about yourself more than whoever else may move in, in everyone else's eyes, you are both just another family.

wut
So there shouldn't be warnings on medicines because people still take them? The point is the information is there so someone can make their own decision if they want to take steps to protect their own family. Just because some people choose to ignore it doesn't mean it isn't effective

[*Shinzon*]

The list is still bad because its usefulness is minimal at best and is rarely used in a responsible manner. You could also argue that the existence of the list and being forced to register as an offender is cruel and unusual punishment especially when there is no list for other violent crimes. I'd be okay with a list under the circumstances that all (and only) violent crimes, not just those of the sexual nature, are counted for and that you only need to register for a certain period of time (3-5 years for example, it can be based on the recidivism rate of the particular crime or something) and then they no longer have to register for the list.

*Edit* I still think the list is rather useless overall but if people must have a list this would be the only one I think is fair.

Just curious, what exactly are you considering an un-responsible use of the list? And there is a list for other violent crimes, it's called being convicted. Like I said before when you're convicted that's it, you're privacy and every expectation of privacy is gone. If someone wants to know what you've been convicted of, all they have to do is look. A conviction record is there forever.

[Cream Soda]

wut
So there shouldn't be warnings on medicines because people still take them? The point is the information is there so someone can make their own decision if they want to take steps to protect their own family. Just because some people choose to ignore it doesn't mean it isn't effective

Not the same thing.

When you read the warning label, you don't take the medicine. This prevents someone from taking the medicine. Someone else doesn't take the medicine on the sole reason that you don't.

The list prevents no crime. When you don't move into that house, it's not like the warning label because someone else WILL move there in your place and thus the same number of victims are produced.

[*Shinzon*]

Not the same thing.

When you read the warning label, you don't take the medicine. This prevents someone from taking the medicine. Someone else doesn't take the medicine on the sole reason that you don't.

The list prevents no crime. When you don't move into that house, it's not like the warning label because someone else WILL move there in your place and thus the same number of victims are produced.

you're thinking too linear. Even though someone else might move into the house, it probably wont be a victim of rape if it's a known sex offender area. It'll be a dude, or a bigger family with no children or adult children or whatever. There are various other possibilities, but those who are concerned have acces to the information they need to make an informed choice.

[Acturus]

awesome. Kid I went to HS with- a year younger than me, played the same instrument I did in band- is one of the 4 registered sex offenders in my home town.

Skin flute?

[Cream Soda]

If that's the case there should be a list like this for every crime no? If the guy next door has 4 DUIs, we don't want our children playing near his house?. I don't see how this list in particular benefits where as there aren't other lists for other offenses.

[Serjero]

Just curious, what exactly are you considering an un-responsible use of the list? And there is a list for other violent crimes, it's called being convicted. Like I said before when you're convicted that's it, you're privacy and every expectation of privacy is gone. If someone wants to know what you've been convicted of, all they have to do is look. A conviction record is there forever.

Harassment is probably the biggest one I can think of. There are many cases where a sex offender has been harassed by people because they are on the list and some have even been assaulted because of it. Yeah people can look up the conviction of certain people but there isn't a website or dedicated list like the sex offender registry has and I think that's the biggest problem.

[Cream Soda]

^ @ above.

Another good point. That list just encourages more crimes, mainly crimes committed towards the previous offender.

[Serjero]

Not to mention because they are a convicted offender they are less likely to receive the same/proper protection (that other citizens get) and treatment from the police.

[*Shinzon*]

The difference is the accessibility to the list. If a person has a DUI or any other conviction, a person who looks for it will find his conviction. There doesn't need to be a list.
The sex offender list like I said before is a real mentally comforting thing for rape victims who choose a new home rather than a shield from danger. Same with parents.

Edit: People who piss in a bush don't get harassed because they have nothing to hide. The ones who get harassed are offenders who have actually harmed a child. While theres no debating theres serious nutjobs who going around fucking with people for fun, the details of the crime are listed on that website.

As for a convicted individual getting respect from the police? They have no entitlement to equal treatment, convict who is released is subject to various stringent laws that govern alot of times, the rest of their life.

[Demosthenes11]

jesus christ rape and touching children is a fucking felony for a reason

STOP COMPARING STUPID SHIT TO RAPE

[Serjero]

The difference is the accessibility to the list. If a person has a DUI or any other conviction, a person who looks for it will find his conviction. There doesn't need to be a list.
The sex offender list like I said before is a real mentally comforting thing for rape victims who choose a new home rather than a shield from danger. Same with parents.

So then it is in fact useless as far as preventing crime and new victims. Also the fact that it can encourage further violence and crime means it's a hindrance to society. Therefore there's no valid reason for its existence.

[Cream Soda]

STOP COMPARING STUPID SHIT TO RAPE

Like pissing in a bush? Consensual as an 18 y/o w/ your 17 y/o gf? Pictures of your children in the tub in a towel? Shall I go on?

[*Shinzon*]

So then it is in fact useless as far as preventing crime and new victims. Also the fact that it can encourage further violence and crime means it's a hindrance to society. Therefore there's no valid reason for its existence.

I can't say that's a fact because I honestly don't know. While it may not be a preventative measure, its a protective one. Law is not all designed to be preventative.

[Demosthenes11]

Like pissing in a bush? Consensual as an 18 y/o w/ your 17 y/o gf? Pictures of your children in the tub in a towel? Shall I go on?

what the fuck are you going on about I just said that those need to be removed from the list and substantial reform needs to hit the system. I'm arguing you idea of the list. You gave reasons you thought it was stupid even if those were removed and now you want to go back to those not being removed? are you religious or something? circular argument etc

[Cream Soda]

what the fuck are you going on about I just said that those need to be removed from the list and substantial reform needs to hit the system. I'm arguing you idea of the list. You gave reasons you thought it was stupid even if those were removed and now you want to go back to those not being removed? are you religious or something? circular argument etc

Except for the fact that there's no way to eliminate every innocent person from the list and because I and you think they should be eliminated from the list, they are still on the list. The list AS IT IS NOW, is more harmful than helpful.