Post Your Augmented Items IV: NPC it.

[drwaffles]

The correct answer is STR Etudes.

[NynJa]

I wasn't being sarcastic.. Attack matters a hell of a lot more at that level than later on, like how Mighty Rings > Vision Rings, etc.

My apologies then, carry on sir.

[FailureMidgard]

Failure, do you take this into account? Attack matters significantly more at low levels.

If you did, nvm

I'm not even responding to what is best at that level. Afaik a scholar is pure win with enthunder and phalanx because you never have to cure, and you still hit for a fuckton. 2boxing and curing is annoying.

I'm only responding to pchans comment that attack will never do anything, to be perfectly honest I didn't read the post he replied to ;p

[Cairthenn]

The correct answer is STR Etudes.

Actually just tested this with my mule as well..it definitely surpasses Minuets.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I'm not even responding to what is best at that level. Afaik a scholar is pure win with enthunder and phalanx because you never have to cure, and you still hit for a fuckton. 2boxing and curing is annoying.

I'm only responding to pchans comment that attack will never do anything, to be perfectly honest I didn't read the post he replied to ;p

PL PARTY OH FUCK

BRD BRD BRD COR SCH

[FailureMidgard]

PL PARTY OH FUCK

BRD BRD BRD COR SCH

I raise...


smn smn smn

[Tsuko_Asura]

I raise...


smn smn smn

Watching a level 5 person being buffed by five 75's and then raping the shit out of East Saruta > efficiency

[FailureMidgard]

Watching a level 5 person being buffed by five 75's and then raping the shit out of East Saruta > efficiency

inb4 those 2 of those 5 people could be doing apollyon.

[Cairthenn]

inb4 those 2 of those 5 people could be doing apollyon.

And the other 3 could be doing Fafnir Vrtra while you solo your own levels for maximum Linkshell efficiency™.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I've laughed more in the past minute and a half than I have in my entire membership to BG

[FailureMidgard]

And the other 3 could be doing Fafnir Vrtra while you solo your own levels for maximum Linkshell efficiency™.

Eh I dunno, I need some numbers on the efficiency of them getting merits smn burning vs downlvling to vrtra, could you do the math please?

I've laughed more in the past minute and a half than I have in my entire membership to BG

The 3 of us have taken over 2 threads at once! Go us.

[pchan]

I can give 1 example that counters your statement that haste always reduces killing time even when it doesn't save a hit. And I can give 1 example that counters your statement that attack doesn't. Haste is still better than attack, universally, but your statements are ignorant and false.

No, you can't give an exemple where


- 1% haste on a player and not the other doesn't reduce killing time on average on a mob that needs 12 hits to die (which is different from picking one sequence that doesn't change the time and pretending everthing happens like this without accounting for accuracy)
- 1 attack reduces the killing time with the same setup.

Your argument is that haste can be wasted, like attack, but that only works for some sequence and not all possible sequence since accuracy is not 100%.

[seiji]

. I can give 1 example that counters your statement that haste always reduces killing time .

I can too: (noKC) RNG burn!

[Rampagesama]

No, you can't give an exemple where


- 1% haste on a player and not the other doesn't reduce killing time on average on a mob that needs 12 hits to die (which is different from picking one sequence that doesn't change the time and pretending everthing happens like this without accounting for accuracy)
- 1 attack reduces the killing time with the same setup.

Your argument is that haste can be wasted, like attack, but that only works for some sequence and not all possible sequence since accuracy is not 100%.

The problem here is, no one measures 1 attack. 1 haste maybe, but not 1 attack. They are two different scales.

[NynJa]

OBviously the only thing to do now is take my taru mule, take my bard, and see which kills EM mobs faster...double minuet or double march.

[Callisto]

OBviously the only thing to do now is get a 2nd BRD mule...double minuet and double march.

[Chopx2]

Wow, I typo'd 12 and put 11, lol. The 12th swing is at 15 seconds in both examples, which was my point. Sorry for the typo, the intent was clear. My example is 100% deadon for a situation when haste does "nothing". Also, adding accuracy doesn't change this, I can setup the exact same thing with any given accuracy value. That being said, you are correct that +haste is always equal to or better than nothing. But we're talking about attack vs haste. Let's use my above example.

Person A swings at 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14
Person B swings at 3, 6, 9, 12, 15

Lets say a mob has 1150 HP, and we're hitting for 100 per hit (on both players). The mob is currently dying at 15 seconds. Adding 5% haste does nothing, as I've already shown. What if we make person A hit 15% harder? He now does 108 per hit...so his 7 hits are 756 damage, and just 4 hits from person B is 400 damage. That means before the last swing of person B, the mob has taken 1156 damage, and it dies at 14 seconds. Yes, I realize I said 5% haste, and 8% hitting harder. Haste is a stronger stat, I am not denying this at all, but you are being ignorant and wrong saying that attack/etc can not shorten fight duration. SOMETIMES it doesn't. But then again, as I've shown, SOMETIMES haste doesn't either. In the end you should go with which increases your average damage per second more, because on average (after killing many mobs), the attack/etc will save time, just like the haste does.


Again, sorry I typo'd, but you're still wrong, as always. Haste is always a better stat, attack is generally a pretty garbage stat for 2h DD, but attack can and does most definitely lower fight duration.

Hi Failure

p.s. he plays with a calculator on his desk at all times.

[FailureMidgard]

No, you can't give an exemple where


- 1% haste on a player and not the other doesn't reduce killing time on average on a mob that needs 12 hits to die (which is different from picking one sequence that doesn't change the time and pretending everthing happens like this without accounting for accuracy)
- 1 attack reduces the killing time with the same setup.

Your argument is that haste can be wasted, like attack, but that only works for some sequence and not all possible sequence since accuracy is not 100%.

Player A: 450 900 1350 1800 2250 2700 3150 3600 4050
Player B: 528 1056 1584 2112 2640 3168 3696 4096
What accuracy should I be assuming here? 80%? 95%?

Let's say both have ~80%ish accuracy, so they both miss 1 swing, mob dies at 3600. Now we give Player B 1% more haste. We can agree the swing that used to be at 3696 is now at ~3659, which is still after the mob dies. The other swings going earlier affect nothing, as the mob still dies at 3600.

Accuracy doesn't affect the ability to set this up. This took me all of 5 seconds to figure out a scenario where it was the case. Next you'll tell me that 0% haste base with those delays isn't realistic, but you don't realize that none of this changes the general idea that you'll always find plenty of scenarios that fit. In my above accuracy, 2% haste still does nothing, 3% haste is needed before you see a change.

As for 1 attack changing it, are you really this ignorant? Do you really believe it's impossible for a mob to be left at 1 HP, and 1 attack be the difference between 1 point of damage on any 1 swing? Mob has 2400 HP, you do an average of 199.8 damage per swing in the above setup, I can find some pdif/base damage value that will give me 1-2 more damage from adding 1 attack.

You're being stupid, I'm sorry. As a side note, Minuet is 60+ attack, as opposed to 11 haste on March. Why would you compare 1 haste to 1 attack, and not 1 haste to 5-6 attack?

[Edit:]
Adding this before someone gets the wrong impression. I've still always said, and still say haste is a better DD stat than attack by far, pchan is just dumb. (I feel I have to add this to every post, or someone will try to quote me and say I said attack is better...)

[Karbuncle]

Tell me this isn't the BRD PL Argument still ;;?

[stewie]

It's an argument about how BRD augments EXP.