T.E.R.A.

[Cyn]

And on top of that, only one faction had access to them. The other faction's "equivalent" was not as powerful. This lasted for months leading to numerous complaints of unbalanced PvP. And unbalanced PvP was a large reason Warhammer failed.

I totally understand the need for patching but having the "patch it later" mindset from the start does not seem like a successful strategy for many MMOs.

BWs were as OP as WEs. Claiming that Sorcs were UP while ignoring WHs was retarded.

[Kupo]

BWs were as OP as WEs. Claiming that Sorcs were UP while ignoring WHs was retarded.

I'm not telling you my personal feelings, I'm telling you what the clear overwhelming consensus among players were. You couldn't even remember what a Bright Wizard was a minute ago so I'm not sure if you are a real authority on the subject. And I truly mean no offense by that. I'm not trying to talk crap. Anyway, let's not derail this into a Warhammer thread.

[Katlan]

Oh geeze, bright wizards... I dont ever want to hear that class again.. shit was so OP for so long.. it wasnt even fun

[Cyn]

I had Fetch. That's pretty much all I had to really stand out, but they nerfed it into oblivion right before I quit.

That's not to say that I don't have screen caps of me destroying entire teams with 2-3 pocket healers and a bunch of STR talismans though.

[Eanae]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95...EanaeF_055.jpg

BW can blow me.

[Cyn]

BW did blow me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...tep/Grovod.jpg

[Cyn]

Hey look, welcome to level 34.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/Hipstep/171k.jpg

[SilverBreeze]

Where in the article did you see that smaller classes would have less range? They said smaller classes would have smaller hitboxes but made no mention of other disadvantages besides being harder to target for healing (which isn't the best tradeoff). Are you just assuming they would do that or did I miss something in the article?

Probably where they said...

"All races are different sizes, will this effect anything in game?"

It will, from attack range to receiving heals.

Which makes sense. I completely agree with Lucavi in this case. Someone who plays Popori/Elin should not have the same attack range as someone who's playing Baraka/Aman, swinging a sword/axe that's twice the size of the Popori/Elin itself, but in exchange the smaller races should be slightly harder to hit. I know it takes away from "I should be able to play what I want!" but if you decide to play a melee character as a fucking bunny girl, you shouldn't have the same attack range as the race who can probably use you as a weapon.

It's something I was actually hoping they would do. With the whole collision from mobs, blocking attacks, and such, it makes sense that Baraka should be awesome Lancers compared to some of the smaller female lancers, because they'll have an easier time of "getting in the way" and being the tanks they're supposed to be. Most people are still going to play female Humans/Highelves/Castanic for their melee classes anyway, but I find that I actually don't mind if they give a reach/range advantage to the bigger races, and give a size advantage to the smaller races.

[Cyn]

On a side note, look at order healers in the second pic. No premades in that one, juat destro sucking tons of ass as usual.

[Kupo]

Probably where they said...

"All races are different sizes, will this effect anything in game?"

It will, from attack range to receiving heals.

Well, I stand corrected. That is why I asked if I missed something. I think when I read it at the time I thought they meant the smaller hit boxes as opposed to reach but I realize now what it means. Personally, I wouldn't say I'm with your or Lucavi's stance but I do find it more tolerable now. Sounds like Melee may have pros and cons with each race (sacrifice range for decreased chance of being hit and vice-versa) which is kind of cool... but I don't know if there will be any advantage the large races offer to the ranged classes (half the classes). However, if the Devs come up with something that will make my mid sized caster worth playing instead of a small Panda, I'll keep an open mind.

[Vimes]

Hmm thanks for the info about the targeting Kupo. What Scapes said sounds good.

[Viq]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95...EanaeF_055.jpg

BW can blow me.

Damn, I forgot about Warhammer. Looks like I was holding it down for Destro with lolMagus

[SilverBreeze]

Well, I stand corrected. That is why I asked if I missed something. I think when I read it at the time I thought they meant the smaller hit boxes as opposed to reach but I realize now what it means. Personally, I wouldn't say I'm with your or Lucavi's stance but I do find it more tolerable now. Sounds like Melee may have pros and cons with each race (sacrifice range for decreased chance of being hit and vice-versa) which is kind of cool... but I don't know if there will be any advantage the large races offer to the ranged classes (half the classes). However, if the Devs come up with something that will make my mid sized caster worth playing instead of a small Panda, I'll keep an open mind.

They could have the larger classes have longer ranges as ranged classes as well. It would already make sense for something like Archer, where a bigger race would have a stronger pull on a bow. For the magic classes they could have longer range on their casts, and maybe slightly bigger AoE circles. Nothing ridiculous but longer than Humans / Elves / Castanic and much longer than Popori/Elin. The disadvantage would be being easier to hit by enemy AoE by being larger, but also having an easier time hitting others cause you're a big motherfucker. There has to be some advantage for playing Baraka/Aman, whether it comes from HP, Longer Range, Being harder to knock down, etc.

[arus2001]

That's still putting a lot of faith in balancing, though.

I know I brought up races in XI last time, and we know there were differences, but in a PvE environment they weren't really too hard to work around. There's still the fact of not taking any damage almost being universally preferred over even taking minimal damages. It means your healers can be lazier, you don't have to cure yourself as often, chug potions, or whatever.

Will the lolis take like 1.5x damage humans do, then 2x those of the big ones? I don't know. That's the kind of stuff you need to start considering when giving innate total damage mitigation when hits do get through. Even with a shorter personal melee range, hit and run tactics still favor them while obviously still being harder to hit at range. How much bigger could you rightfully expect attack types to be in comparison? Too big and you'll get bitching about EZ mode. Too small and the evasion advantage still dominates. And again, this is before lag is even considered.

Again, I can understand some pursuit of realism in a fantasy setting, but when you throw PvP into the mix, skill should be a greater factor than race or class. No amount of personal skill can completely mitigate being a bigger target, and I guess I also fear that being bigger will equate to being slower outside of select moves that possibly propel you in a direction or offer short speed boosts. Still, you can expect those to have timers and be more easily dodged by smaller folk who will always be harder to hit and maybe faster in general. :/

[Katlan]

I wouldn't worry too much about height advantages and stuff.. I remember the Western dev's saying that a lot of things will be changed to fit a western audience.. this was brought up when ppl were complaining about racials being so drastically different and so important. So i wouldn't be surprised if the height aspect of the game, that is clearly retarded and un-balanced, will not see its way outside of Korea

[SilverBreeze]

That's one thing to complain about though. You talk about lag, but at the same time, how much will you enjoy getting hit by a Popori/Elin's melee attack that was no where near you, because they are smaller, but have the same attack range as a Baraka? Their models are nowhere near the same size, but with the same attack range, their weapons could come nowhere near you and still hit you, add that to lag and it just seems like a frustrating scenario.

We shall see though.

[Lucavi]

^ This. I'd be raging pretty hard if some 3 and a half foot loli with a pike the size of a pig-sticker managed to hit me as I was fleeing from 10 feet away because "that's just how the animation works". If they want to talk a big game about having a new, dynamic combat system that focuses on flanking and other realistic aspects, then go balls out and make it all the way.

I have a lot of faith in balancing because after playing WoW I realized that not every company is like SE and actually updates their classes more than once a year. I realized that it doesn't always have to be some crushing reality that a single class dominates the game for upwards of 3 years. With a game like this, it'll be pretty apparent early on about what needs to be tweaked and what doesn't, and besides, isn't that what beta tests are all about?

Put the concepts in the game now, put them out there to the players and let the players give feedback. Don't tear the system apart before it even leaves the design table. I'm going to be far more annoyed if the system isn't in than if it is, and we have another game where migets get some sort of auto-homing on their attacks to make it look like their baby strikes are actually hitting. I'd also be pissed if I was said midget and some big hulk was swinging slow strikes that I could easily dodge given my size, when in fact the game wouldn't allow me to due to attack animations and range simply being a facade, like it is in so many games already.

This game has a chance to do something truly different, and I support them.

[Katlan]

^ game is being released on Korea a few months ahead of NA/EU, they will get all the player feedback they need lol

[SilverBreeze]

They seem to be doing a good job of adding things and tweaking stuff so far, such as mystic in the last beta getting new spells and such. We'll see what we get.

I fully support the differences if they're done correctly. It'll be a task to do so, but it'll be so very impressive if they manage to pull it off. With the way they seem to be seeking to change and revolutionize everything, I think its an undertaking worth the potential results. Or maybe I just want to beat down lolis with my 10 foot Aman axe :3

[Rulke]

Amani power!