For BG fitness fanatics, a question..

[Zoolander]

Machines only work specific muscles and dont get your whole body involved. This is important not only in working different areas, but also for getting (i believe anyways, someone correct me if wrong) ATP circulating in the body and building muscle. Its more complicated than just "this works this muscle." The range of motion on machines are set and offer no room for natural movements and, as above said, they do not build stabilizers at all. If you have injuries, are really really old and fragile, or unwilling to learn then I guess machines are cool.

Just google "free weights vs machines" lol.

I'll personally say that I worked out on machines for a couple months and the results were weak. Once I started with a routine with free weights I got awesome gains. No machine can replace the squat or deadlift.

[Atreides]

For beginners I'd be very wary of using machines over freeweights. Building up stabilization muscles is crucial, for injury prevention and overall strength.

[Moss]

Something I've seen a lot that makes sense(someone can correct me if I'm wrong) is that to gain a lot of strength and muscle you have to "shock" your body with your workout. Machines will tire those few muscles eventually but something like squats just completely exhausts your whole body and forces it to adapt. It's the same reason people change up their workout after a month or two, your body starts to get used to it, so you need to change it up(muscle confusion) to continue your gains.

[Weiing]

For beginners I'd be very wary of using machines over freeweights. Building up stabilization muscles is crucial, for injury prevention and overall strength.

Seconded. I can't imagine why machines would be helpful for beginners.

@Moss: I may be wrong too...but I agree that it's half right. The other half is the recovery/food aspect, which helps to rebuild and strengthen the muscle. I could be wrong too though. :D

[Zoolander]

Seconded. I can't imagine why machines would be helpful for beginners.

The only "reasons" I see online and what not are all pseudo-reasons for why machines are good for beginner. "Its easy," "less intimidating," "less confusing," "faster (which is total bull shit)", etc. All of these are bogus and hardly legit reasons for using machines as a healthy individual.

[Atreides]

Something I've seen a lot that makes sense(someone can correct me if I'm wrong) is that to gain a lot of strength and muscle you have to "shock" your body with your workout. Machines will tire those few muscles eventually but something like squats just completely exhausts your whole body and forces it to adapt. It's the same reason people change up their workout after a month or two, your body starts to get used to it, so you need to change it up(muscle confusion) to continue your gains.

You don't really need to change your workout that often if you're on a good plan. De-loading periodically to let your CNS rest so you can come back and break through sticking points is a good idea, but if something is working for you there's no reason to change it unless it stops working. Most of the time people are changing up their workouts to take advantage of recomp effects for hypertrophy, but a solid strength building workout will last you a very long time. People with their own crappy self-designed weight plans will probably have to change things up though, to see the same kind of gains.

[richardd]

what link said machines get you faster results? lol

my brother brags about putting up 320 lbs on those incline bench machines and runs his mouth constantly about it lol. i let him come to the back in LA where all the "bigger intimidating guys" are and let him try my set of 265 x8. he almost injured his elbow joints, and had to keep it from dropping on his chest after the 2nd press.

i really never did research on those things, since i never used them. im lazy and never found the need. but i always wondered why he was able to do more on a machine that he was unable to do on free weights.

[Gustave]

Squats and Dead lifts are great workouts because they tap great amounts of ATP which are otherwise left idle. ATP greatly increases muscle growth and is housed in great quantity in large muscles such as quads and lower back.

Could someone further elaborate on this or provide informational links? So this would help size gains in other areas that are not directly effected by those movements? Like chest size and strength?

Also I don't understand why I can put 60lbs on a belt and do sets of 8-10 deep dips + locking out at top (185 + 60= 245lbs) but I can only bench 245 1-2 times. I just thought those 2 exercises were more closely related in motion/muscles.

[Atreides]

not really, dips are primarily a triceps exercise that hit your pecs, whereas bench is a pectoralis major exercise that engages your triceps.

When you're doing dips you're probably engaging all the muscle groups responsible at the same time, but with bench you're primarily squeezing your pecs up and then using your triceps to control the bar's descent. There is also a big difference between mind-muscle connection on both exercises as well- pushing yourself up off the floor is easier than pushing a heavy weight away from you.

Other than that I'd make sure your bench form was correct. Shitty grip or wrist/elbow positioning will kill your ability to lift.

And chest size/strength is a crappy indicator of overall strength, just fyi

edit: not the best article but this more or less explains why squats/deadlifts are good for mass building:
http://www.bodybuildingweb.net/blog/...rowth-hormone/

[Zoolander]

Dips are supposed to be a chest targeting exercise, but yea to me it always felt like more triceps than chest. I know there is a triceps dip as well, I think with bars closer together? Not sure. I would definitely say the movement is different and comparing weight between the two doesnt really work. Subtle differences can make a huge difference in how much weight you can handle. I mean I can do 3x8-10 dips and I weigh 170lbs but 170 is around my 1RM on bench press, which is basically the same ratio as you said.

[ThatGuy7]

Thanks for all the tips. I'll be sure to look into the programs posted and try them out.

[Gustave]

Ugh! Great article... I guess I am going to incorporate Squats into my workout... I feel like my back can hold up now. I use to love them in highschool ( cleans were my fav tho). I do remember for about a week I had to do lightweight because I would get nose bleeds on my 2nd-3rd set. Could have been other reasons but I was also pushing myself really hard.

The other day I thought I hurt it again and was worried about the next day all night... to my surprise when I woke up my back was not sore at all.

By that logic wouldn't 20-30 yards all out sprints have the same effect? (maybe uphill or resistance-chute)

[alt]

Could someone further elaborate on this or provide informational links? So this would help size gains in other areas that are not directly effected by those movements? Like chest size and strength?

ATP stands for Adenosine triphosphate (also seen it spelled adenine triphosphate), which is a form of potential energy stored in muscles cells. A very short and simple explanation of the ATP energy system:

During short and very intense muscle contractions, such as those used in weight lifting, sprinting, etc. the body breaks down Adenosine triphosphate (ATP) into Adenosine diphosphate (ADP) for energy.

You muscles also store a molecule called Creatine phosphate. Your body then breaks the phosphate off of the Creatine phosphate molecule and recombines that phosphate with ADP turning it back into ATP, which then starts the energy cycle all over again.

Unfortunately the body can only keep this energy system up for a very short time, seconds. Again this energy system is used during short very intense bursts of exercise. Like when you dropped the bigger guy who kept trying to hit on your girlfriend.

This is where taking creatine comes into play. Creatine is stored in the body as creatine phosphate. So more creatine phosphate in the muscle cells means you can keep this energy system going longer.

Ok that wasn't as short as I thought, and its a little more complicated than that. But that's the jist of it.

[Weiing]

Ugh! Great article... I guess I am going to incorporate Squats into my workout... I feel like my back can hold up now. I use to love them in highschool ( cleans were my fav tho). I do remember for about a week I had to do lightweight because I would get nose bleeds on my 2nd-3rd set. Could have been other reasons but I was also pushing myself really hard.

The other day I thought I hurt it again and was worried about the next day all night... to my surprise when I woke up my back was not sore at all.

By that logic wouldn't 20-30 yards all out sprints have the same effect? (maybe uphill or resistance-chute)

Perhaps if you rather do something like goblet squats or front squats... There are a ton of variations other than traditional back squats.

Yes, sprinting also does tap into your ATP-PC. It will have the same "effect" in that it taps into your ATP and increases the secretion of growth hormones. However, it won't really help you build muscle & strength like weight lifting would.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/atp-pc-energy/

[Cloud]

I could eat as much as him, no problem.
But man Phelps must burn TONS of calories (12,000) to maintain his performance.

Wondering what he does for his training & conditioning regime.

[Atreides]

Perhaps if you rather do something like goblet squats or front squats... There are a ton of variations other than traditional back squats.

Yes, sprinting also does tap into your ATP-PC. It will have the same "effect" in that it taps into your ATP and increases the secretion of growth hormones. However, it won't really help you build muscle & strength like weight lifting would.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/atp-pc-energy/

the reason the back squat is generally recommended is because most people can back squat a lot more weight than they can other kinds of squats, which in turn releases more testosterone. If you're subbing a different kind of squat you're almost certainly decreasing the weight to compensate.

[Weiing]

the reason the back squat is generally recommended is because most people can back squat a lot more weight than they can other kinds of squats, which in turn releases more testosterone. If you're subbing a different kind of squat you're almost certainly decreasing the weight to compensate.

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. But just offering him other options if it's his back/shoulders that always bother him when doing squats (although, I think it was determined that he didn't have the bar position correct?). Obviously, I could be wrong in assuming that with other squat variations, though it may be lighter in weight than back squats, may help alleviate the back/shoulder pain? If i"m wrong, or if there's a better way to go around it, please share. Love to know.

[Atreides]

I'd definitely look around and test it out. Different squats stress different muscle groups, so something like zercher squats would be a lot lighter than back squats but could be catastrophic for his back because of the stress they put on it. Front squats seem to engage the quads more than the glutes, so it might solve his back problems at the expense of his knees.

I would definitely agree that he experiment to find the squat that would be easiest for him to do given his injury issues, but I wouldn't immediately rule out the back squat simply because it's going to be more weight.

[Moss]

I noticed I have some problems with my lower back rounding out when I go past parallel on my squats. I think this is a result of inflexible hamstrings(I can't sit in a perfect L-shape on the ground with my legs out without my lower back rounding). Any idea for a good stretch to do often to rectify this?

[sephir]

I'd definitely look around and test it out. Different squats stress different muscle groups, so something like zercher squats would be a lot lighter than back squats but could be catastrophic for his back because of the stress they put on it. Front squats seem to engage the quads more than the glutes, so it might solve his back problems at the expense of his knees.

I would definitely agree that he experiment to find the squat that would be easiest for him to do given his injury issues, but I wouldn't immediately rule out the back squat simply because it's going to be more weight.

All of the best exercises are the ones in which you move your bod through space, such as Squats, deadlifts, dips, chins, etc.

But I've found my favorite exercise to be the ones that engage bosu and medicine balls. They force you to get a good sense of balance and really make you have to pay attention - much more fun than simply lifting - at least to me.