For BG fitness fanatics, a question..

[Militant]

Just curious how much less effective squats are when done on a smith press rather than just a barbell and a rack.

[Atreides]

I noticed I have some problems with my lower back rounding out when I go past parallel on my squats. I think this is a result of inflexible hamstrings(I can't sit in a perfect L-shape on the ground with my legs out without my lower back rounding). Any idea for a good stretch to do often to rectify this?

i have the same problem, best thing I've found is to stand in front of a mirror with a chair or something sturdy (I just use the edge of the rack at the gym) and go down into the squat without weight. Go as deep as you can, and hold the position like you would if you had weight on your back, making sure to keep your back straight with the proper lordotic curve and tight glutes. I just hold it for a while.

Other than that I just do normal seated toe touches to stretch my hamstrings. I try not to overstretch before squatting, since warmup sets provide an adequate stretch and I don't want them to lose too much tightness.

also I'm convinced that squat balance is also partially a problem with strength as well as flexibility (adductor and hamstring strength, and I guess quads)

edit: oh and watch these videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq8CWv8UPAI

[Cloud]

Just curious how much less effective squats are when done on a smith press rather than just a barbell and a rack.

Effectiveness measured in weight or amount of calories you're burning?
People who can do 275 on the smith, usually can't do free weight 225 ATG squats.

I've seen it in the gym a lot, and they just don't have the technique or strength to pull it off usually. I switch from free weight to smith every week just so I can target different rep ranges.

[Weiing]

But I've found my favorite exercise to be the ones that engage bosu and medicine balls. They force you to get a good sense of balance and really make you have to pay attention - much more fun than simply lifting - at least to me.

I feel like squats, deadlifts, etc also make me really have to focus on my balance, stability, and core.

Although, doing other stuff you enjoy is good, too, whether it be bosu balls, swiss balls, or just yoga.

@militant--
The arguments against the smith machine squats are the same with other machine equipment vs free weights: unnatural range of motion, "helps" with the actual exercise (making it easier) so you're able to do more weight but not really, and doesn't really help you utilize the same muscles.

I've tried smith machine squats for awhile and I noticed I could never squat all the way down, below parallel, because it felt awkward and unnatural. I also felt like I was leaning forward or...I don't know, it limited my motion. Additionally, I've seen many people squat on the Smith machine stand really weird, where their legs are way in front of their bodies and they only bend 90degrees at the lowest.

additional links:
http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_onli...vs_free_squats
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...91&postcount=2

edit: sorry, to get back to your question -- way less effective squatting on a smith machine.

[Meat]

I noticed I have some problems with my lower back rounding out when I go past parallel on my squats. I think this is a result of inflexible hamstrings(I can't sit in a perfect L-shape on the ground with my legs out without my lower back rounding). Any idea for a good stretch to do often to rectify this?

do you lead with your butt?

[Atreides]

back squats in a smith machine seem like a momentously bad idea lol

to clarify:

when you squat, the bar doesn't move up and down in a perfectly straight line. It needs to move forward and backwards a little bit to follow the natural range of motion that your body goes through when you squat. In a smith machine the bar can only move up or down, and because the bar can't give, those lateral stresses go right into your back. It's a recipe for injury, if not right away then you're definitely not doing yourself any favors by not training yourself to keep the bar stable so you'll probably injure yourself when you eventually switch to real squats, lol

[Meat]

Just curious how much less effective squats are when done on a smith press rather than just a barbell and a rack.

The stabilization and the stress is the entire point of a squat, if you're looking for leg size they're better exercises to do.

[Moss]

Thanks, really helpful video.

[Militant]

I see people do them from time to time, and I personally only use the power rack, however, I really need to be doing squats more often. I kind of figured you could do more weight since the balance issue is taken care of for you, but I didn't realize the all sorts of havoc it can cause your body. Thanks for the links and input, glad I came here before trying it.

[Moss]

do you lead with your butt?

I want to say yes but could you be more specific?

[Militant]

My biggest problem with squats, is my legs get so incredibly sore and it really hinders my performance at work. I make sure to stretch properly and all that, and sure my upper body gets sore from my workouts, but not to the point where it hinders my motion in anyway. Whenever I do squats my legs are so shot for next 3-4 days it's like awful at work (car mechanic, and the lift I use generally is an alignment rack, which requires squatting under the vehicle, and is super painful if I did squats recently.)

[Atreides]

are you eating/sleeping enough?

or you're lifting too heavy/your form is bad

[Weiing]

I see people do them from time to time, and I personally only use the power rack, however, I really need to be doing squats more often. I kind of figured you could do more weight since the balance issue is taken care of for you,

What's the point in taking away one of the most essential part of the squat? Adding more weight may make you feel tuff, but you will add more weight eventually...why not do it the right way?

I had that misconception too and could squat 125 lbs on the smith machine. But then I realized how crappy my form was and how awkward I felt. When I went back to regular squats, I had to start back at 95-105 lbs. However, once I surpassed 125lbs doing it off a squat rack/in a squat cage, I felt really tuff then.

[Cloud]

My biggest problem with squats, is my legs get so incredibly sore and it really hinders my performance at work. I make sure to stretch properly and all that, and sure my upper body gets sore from my workouts, but not to the point where it hinders my motion in anyway. Whenever I do squats my legs are so shot for next 3-4 days it's like awful at work (car mechanic, and the lift I use generally is an alignment rack, which requires squatting under the vehicle, and is super painful if I did squats recently.)

Unless you're training like a power lifter, 1-5reps, you shouldn't be getting THAT sore after 10 weeks of continuous training. This is including rotating your exercises so you don't plateau.
It's only when you're off for an extended period of time that you're body isn't used to the stimulus and then start having DOMS...

What's the point in taking away one of the most essential part of the squat? Adding more weight may make you feel tuff, but you will add more weight eventually...why not do it the right way?

I had that misconception too and could squat 125 lbs on the smith machine. But then I realized how crappy my form was and how awkward I felt. When I went back to regular squats, I had to start back at 95-105 lbs. However, once I surpassed 125lbs doing it off a squat rack/in a squat cage, I felt really tuff then.

I'm a firm believer that people who are new to weight lifting should start with a strength program using mostly free weights.
Learning proper form is extremely important while doing heavier weights, and that's why I still don't have any knee / back pain or injuries compared to my friends.
People should be able to ATG squat their own weight with proper form until they start using machines. I find that using machines is the best option for higher rep ranges though (10+), beacuse above that you'll be stressing your cardiovascular system.

[Atreides]

while we're at it I wouldn't bench or incline bench on the smith machine either

[Weiing]

while we're at it I wouldn't bench or incline bench on the smith machine either

Or do anything on the smith machine? Except maybe inverted rows or as a makeshift pull-up/chin-up bar?

[Militant]

Incline I do dumbbell presses, switching between 30 and 37 degrees every few weeks. For regular flat I do about 80% standard bench and 20% dumbbell press.
I see a lot of people do shoulder presses with the smith, I always stick to dumbbell shoulder presses for that ROM when doing shoulders.

[Atreides]

i would have sex on the smith machine, that is about it

[Cloud]

or just dont flat bench

+1000

while we're at it I wouldn't bench or incline bench on the smith machine either

Actually I LOVE the smith for bench presses. SOO many people have torn their pecs doing Barbell Bench and they've been doing it for a ALONG time. It just puts too much stress, and the smith relieves some of that.
Smith (Shoulder) Press, Smith Incline & Decline are usually on my list of exercises.

[Meat]

or just dont flat bench