For BG fitness fanatics, a question..

[Tyche]

Just wanted to stroll in to post that I think I'm going to run LA marathon in march. Maybe conformity as well. Anyone else running it?

[sephir]

I only use the smith machine for squats, but I go down all the way until my butt touches my ankles. I used a spotter on the smith machine once when I tore something in my chest and wanted someone there just in case something happened. I didn't exactly feel confident doing free weight with the injury. He more or less watched, but would have helped me should the tear actually act up.

As far as grunting goes, I sometimes do it with deadlifts on the initial lift, but after that I'm usually the quietest person in the gym.

[archibaldcrane]

Just wanted to stroll in to post that I think I'm going to run LA marathon in march. Maybe conformity as well. Anyone else running it?

I'll show up on the sidelines to trip you if you like.

this guy has the most hilarious grunts. im sure atredies knows him, hes gay and pretty cool

This workout is intense, jesus. I kind of want to try it, but 6 press or fly exercises with 4-stage dropset followed by 2 6-8 rep sets...fuck.

Also, getting the cables free for that much time would be nearly impossible at my gym, there are way too many people around there.

[Yabby]

@ Yab. lol I think your scaring me a bit now. I don't really need anything since I can be patient ( and I knew I was gonna have to go through this when I was putting on the weight). I just figured their might be something out there that will help. I get to start back tacking Jack3d next week. I've been off pre workout drinks for about a month. I'll have to take one scoop at lunch so I can sleep at night lol.

@Rich Dude your arms are looking huge man! Is your torso and chest are slimming down a bit or arms still gaining size? I can't recall your last arm size but I didn't remember 18". My problem is my chest a torso area is not the size I want compared to my arms. I don't want huge arms but they dont even take up half my chest width from a side view. I think it is mostly the build of my frame or something. I have very small wrist/ankles and wide hips... uh do I sound like a chick? (no offense Wei )

There really isn't anything to be afraid of on the stack. The reason they were banned because some guy took so many in one sitting and his heart stopped. Also note that if took the same amount of aspirin he would of died as well. Dumbass people will always fuck up a good thing.

@Rich, I got into the stack (I use them randomly when i need to cut some bodyfat %) when i went hard core with low carb. I wouldn't take in more than 5 to 10 crabs a day. I don't know if anyone has done low crab, but for me the only hard part is the cravings. I'll see a loaf of bread and drool. I didn't want pizza, or anything like that, just fucking sliced bread. On the stack it kills that craving for me which helped me a lot.

As far as noise goes i love my gym for that, they don't put up with that kind of shit and everyone there knows it. You let out a load grunt every now and then is one thing, but they have trainers on the floor at all time to help people/spot members. If you are doing it more than once or twice in a set they will tell you to stfu or leave. Scott Herman cracks me up with the sounds he makes, but the main thing that bothers me with him is how he just tosses the weights around. That shit pisses me off more than anything when i see someone abusing the equipment in the gym (My gym will cut a membership right then and there if you toss something like that).

[Diamicles]

I only use the smith machine for squats, but I go down all the way until my butt touches my ankles. I used a spotter on the smith machine once when I tore something in my chest and wanted someone there just in case something happened. I didn't exactly feel confident doing free weight with the injury. He more or less watched, but would have helped me should the tear actually act up.

As far as grunting goes, I sometimes do it with deadlifts on the initial lift, but after that I'm usually the quietest person in the gym.

going down that far on squats puts ridiculous strain on your patellar and quadriceps tendon, not to mention that it's very rough on your cartilage in your knees and very likely will make you develop arthritis at an early age.

Parallel is all you need to maximize your workout without putting too much unnecessary strain on your knees. I'm sure people will disagree with me, but I've been doing squats for more than half my life, and I will say better safe than sorry, once your knees wear out there is no going back.

[Serif]

going down that far on squats puts ridiculous strain on your patellar and quadriceps tendon, not to mention that it's very rough on your cartilage in your knees and very likely will make you develop arthritis at an early age.

Parallel is all you need to maximize your workout without putting too much unnecessary strain on your knees. I'm sure people will disagree with me, but I've been doing squats for more than half my life, and I will say better safe than sorry, once your knees wear out there is no going back.

Pfttttt you can always get new knees...

[Atreides]

going down that far on squats puts ridiculous strain on your patellar and quadriceps tendon, not to mention that it's very rough on your cartilage in your knees and very likely will make you develop arthritis at an early age.

Parallel is all you need to maximize your workout without putting too much unnecessary strain on your knees. I'm sure people will disagree with me, but I've been doing squats for more than half my life, and I will say better safe than sorry, once your knees wear out there is no going back.

wrong

edit: I am feeling nice so I'll type this up for you

The full squat is the preferred lower body exercise for safety as well as athletic strength. The squat, when performed correctly, is not only the safest leg exercise for the knees, it produces a more stable knee than any other leg exercise. The important part of the last statement is the "when performed correctly" qualifier. Correctly is deep, with hips dropping below level with the top of the patella. Correctly is full range of motion.

Any squat that is not deep is a partial squat, and partial squats stress the knee and the quadriceps without stressing the glutes, the adductors, and the hamstrings. The hamstrings, groin, muscles, and glutes perform their function in the squat when the hips are stretched to the point of full flexion, where they get tight -- the deep squat position. The hamstring muscles, attached to the tibia and to the ischial tuberosity of the pelvis, and the adductors, attached between the medial femur and various points on the medial pelvis, reach a full stretch at the very bottom of the squat, where the pelvis tilts forward with the torso, stretching the ends of the muscles apart. At this stretched position they provide a slight rebound out of the bottom, which will look like a "bounce," and which you will learn more about later. The tension of the stretch pulls the tibia backwards, the posterior direction, balancing the forward-pulling force produced by the quadriceps, which pull the front. The hamstrings finish their work, with help from the adductors and glutes, by straightening out, or "extending," the hip.

In a partial squat, which fails to provide a full stretch for the hamstrings, most of the force against the tibia is upward and forward, from the quadriceps and their attachment to the front of the tibia below the knee. This produces an anterior shear, a forward-directed sliding force, on the knee, with the tibia being pulled forward from the patellar tendon and without a balancing pull from the opposing hamstrings. This shearing force - and the resulting unbalanced strain on the prepatellar area - may be the biggest problem with partial squats. Many spectacular doses of tendinitis have been produced this way, with "squats" getting the blame.

The hamstrings benefit from their involvement in the full squat by getting strong in direct proportion to their anatomically proper share of the work in the movement, as determined by the mechanics of the movement itself. This fact is often overlooked when considering anterior cruciate tears and the relationship to the conditioning program. The ACL stabilizes the knee: it prevents the tibia from sliding forward relative to the femur. As we have already seen, so does the hamstring group of muscles. Underdeveloped, weak hamstrings thus play a role in ACL injuries, and full squats work the hamstrings while partial squats do not. In the same way the hamstrings protect the knee during the full squat, hamstrings that are stronger due to full squats can protect the ACL during the activities that we are squatting to condition for. In fact, athletes who are missing an ACL can safely squat heavy weights, because the ACL is under no stress in a correctly performed full squat.

Another problem with partial squats is the fact that very heavy loads may be moved, due to the short range of motion and the greater mechanical efficiency of the quarter squat position. This predisposes the trainee to back injuries as a result of the extreme spinal loading that results from putting a weight on his back that is possibly in excess of three times the weight that can be safely handled in a correct deep squat. A lot of football coaches are fond of partial squats, since it allows them to claim their 17 year-old linemen are all squatting 600 lbs. Your interest is in getting strong (at least it should be), not in playing meaningless games iwth numbers. If it's too heavy to squat below parallel, it's too heavy to have on your back.

If deep squats were actually dangerous you'd have something on the order of 2 to 5 million professional/semi-professional weightlifters worldwide all lined up for knee replacements.

I agree that going way down past parallel can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing, but you should definitely be going past it.

[Diamicles]

ok, so squat all the way down, and activate your glutes on the way up, before you're at parallel. it's nearly impossible to do. your quads are taking the majority of the weight and pushing up until your glutes can kick in - that's why a proper squat is done without your knees moving forward past your toes.

it's not wrong, it's simple kinesthetics.

but, if you don't believe me, feel free to not be able to walk when you're 40.

[Yabby]

What do people do about the stress squating does to the upper back, where the bar rests. I normally can't do more than 285 with squats because the pressure on my back/shoulders gets to me. Even putting something between my shoulder/back and the bar it still hurts just resting it there.

[Diamicles]

Yeah, that's the bitch part about doing low-bar squats. It's just a conditioning thing, you have to get adjusted to having heavy weights on your back. I never found a good way to get around it except just deal with it, got used to it after a while. I don't do anything super heavy anymore (used to squat 1RM 400 back in the day) but when I did I just bit the bullet and loaded up. At 250+ its going to hurt having that kind of weight focused on your back.

[Atreides]

ok, so squat all the way down, and activate your glutes on the way up, before you're at parallel. it's nearly impossible to do. your quads are taking the majority of the weight and pushing up until your glutes can kick in - that's why a proper squat is done without your knees moving forward past your toes.

it's not wrong, it's simple kinesthetics.

but, if you don't believe me, feel free to not be able to walk when you're 40.

if you're unable to do it then you're squatting too heavy. And I will definitely believe Rippetoe/Kilgore over you, sorry.

[Diamicles]

I guess it was my fault for thinking that people are trying to squat really heavy weights doing that sort of exercise and putting undo strain on their joints. Thanks for the info on the theory behind it. Part of my bias may be due to multiple knee injuries (3 ACL tears, same knee, last one wasn't repaired) but I can still do light squats well past parallel (but not all the way to my heels, I can't do that at all even with no weight) because my hamstrings and upper gastroc/soleus are strong enough to support my knee.

I will still stand firm that going down as far as sephir was talking about isn't good for you, no matter the weight. Most people can't even squat down like that without weight, let alone with a loaded bar on your back.

[Atreides]

I will still stand firm that going down as far as sephir was talking about isn't good for you, no matter the weight. Most people can't even squat down like that without weight, let alone with a loaded bar on your back.

I agree yea, if you're doing the squats incorrectly then going down super duper far is a recipe for danger.

I think the problem a lot of people have is that they "dive bomb" into the bottom of a squat, basically letting themselves fall into a deep squat by letting gravity pull the huge weight down. If they've got form issues of any kind it's going to be really tough to get back up, and chances are they're going to engage their quads/knees to assist, which is why most of the squat instruction out there advocates slowly lowering yourself instead of just plopping down and hoping you can make it back up lol

[Gustave]

Quick questions.

I hurt my wrist a few weeks ago by trying to hold a something while it was twisting. The pain came on slowly. Now I can still workout / lift heavy weight etc without any pain as long as my wrist is in mostly the hammer position. The problem is I can't turn a doorknob without SEVERE pain. The day after it happened me wrist felt like a sprained ankle. There is no swelling!

Any quick diagnosis? I don't really want to go to the doctor about it if its just something like a sprain that takes time to heal. The no swelling is really odd.

[Diamicles]

I think I may have used a different perception of parallel as well - when I say parallel I mean an imaginary line from the midline of your knee joint, to the greater trochanter (the hard spot on the side of your hip, actually a protrusion of the femur)

If you hit parallel with this line, it will actually appear as if you're past parallel. I don't go much deeper than that.

quick ms paint to illustrate (I think the pic comes from starting strength even)
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j..._Hip_Drive.jpg

I think semantics got us on the wrong page.

[Omnipotent]

Do you normally do high reps? When I use to do sets of 8-10 on everything I had a huge curve in my 6-8x rep range compared to 1 rm. Like I could do 205 x8 but only max at 245 . Since I've been doing sets of 3x5 then 2x2 its the opposite. I can only do 225 5-7 times (on a good day) but I can max out at 295.

I guess its mostly in my head or CNS. I have noticed if I ever get under some weight I think "Ah man this is fucking heavy, no way I'm getting this up" I'm already done.

Anyone else notice strength gains come in waves? Its like you hit a personal record then next week your not even close and then a few weeks later you break a new personal record?

I normally do 145 X 10-12, just to stretch / warm up. Then do 205 X 6, 245 X 1 or 2, some days I just can't even get 1. I know what you mean, some days at the gym I literally feel like I am on roids, no sleep style change, no food change. Other days I barely get passed X6 205 without dying.

[Atreides]

yeah, that makes sense. I wasn't able to go much past that point either until recently, I took a few months off from squatting when I was cutting and when I started back up again my form somehow improved dramatically. Now I can drop my butt well below that line and it almost seems easier to stand up than it did before.

also this is unrelated by I've been trying out a new pre-workout thing, normally I would just go to the gym a few hours after breakfast so I didn't feel hungry enough to eat. Now I've started having a cup of coffee and a protein shake/bar 30 mins before my workouts, and the difference in performance (stamina especially) is like night and day.

[Diamicles]

yeah, that makes sense. I wasn't able to go much past that point either until recently, I took a few months off from squatting when I was cutting and when I started back up again my form somehow improved dramatically. Now I can drop my butt well below that line and it almost seems easier to stand up than it did before.

also this is unrelated by I've been trying out a new pre-workout thing, normally I would just go to the gym a few hours after breakfast so I didn't feel hungry enough to eat. Now I've started having a cup of coffee and a protein shake/bar 30 mins before my workouts, and the difference in performance (stamina especially) is like night and day.

Have you been working on increased flexibility? I know that makes a huge difference, and if you're flexible enough you can engage your posterior chain more effectively on the upward motion of the squat.

I work out so early (class starts at 515am, wake up at 420-430am) that it would border of the ridiculous to eat something more than 30 minutes pre-workout. I always feel like I have plenty of energy, and it made me wonder why everyone insisted that eating something hours ahead of time was the way to go. I think that as long as you have a decent supply of glycogen you're good to go, no matter how long before hand you eat/supplement etc.

[Atreides]

I think for me it's that I've somehow really increased my metabolism over the past year or so, so I burn through my meals VERY quickly. Not eating closer to my workout time would mean running out of steam towards the end of the workout. I used to have big problems with the last rep of my last set, but it seems that eating just before the gym really helps keep my energy level high for the entire duration of my time at the gym.

I still have a big problem with trying to eat a lot of calories and never getting actually hungry. Stuffing my face with food well past the point of satiety sucks, I really wish I could increase my appetite to make it easier to load up.

[Omnipotent]

My metabolism is off the charts, I shit 3-4x a day, true story.