H1N1 Vaccination! Are you getting it or not? Why?

[Linliel]

I'm the crazy one.

Squalene: The Swine Flu Vaccine’s Dirty Little Secret Exposed

Squalene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Shade]

This was linked to me a few days ago. I thought it was kinda interesting. On the guy who started the whole autism and flu shots thing:
Science-Based Medicine � Antivaccine hero Andrew Wakefield: Scientific fraud?

ALSO: I wish people who were sick would STAY HOME. But they don't. Instead they go to work or to the mall because they "don't feel that bad..." or they want to be troopers. I don't care how you feel. I feel great. And I don't want to get sick because you couldn't stay away for two or three days. Especially with this flu, because some people get kind of sick, some people get sick like a dog for a week or two, and some people, sometimes apparently young healthy people, get really sick within a day or two and go to the hospital and just die. And that's the scary part. Does that happen with the regular flu?

[Nystul]

I'm the crazy one.

Squalene: The Swine Flu Vaccine’s Dirty Little Secret Exposed

I'm going to ignore the first paragraph of what you posted that clearly states that the compound you find so alarming isn't in the H1N1 vaccine anyway.

Do you understand anything that you post about? I mean...I'm certainly not an astrophysicist and I'd absolutely not presume to go ranting on about how black holes work because I am uneducated in such manners. You're posting shit like this to me. I'm guessing by your level of understanding of these matters that you've done nothing more than your basic HS level bio/chem courses or maybe a basic non-majors biology class at the collegiate level. Unfortunately for you (and me because this shit hurts my brain) the person you're trying to "inform" has a BS in biology, a MS in biology, years of cell and molecular biology research and a job working on drug discovery at a major pharmaceutical corporation.

Your ability to find alarmist postings by paranoid people with crazy ideas is unchallenged. However I'm not impressed by the information contained within. I don't care if a study showed something caused arthritis in rats. What matters is the relative dosage. How much was given to the rats vs how much is contained within the vaccine? Has there ever been any evidence that shows that compound has any impact on humans? Any correlation between the compound and arthritis or such conditions in humans (good luck finding that)? Dosage is significant. Aspirin is helpful in certain doses. In certain amounts alcohol can be heart protective. In others it can contribute to heart disease. Water is healthy for the body but drinking enough of it can kill you. The source you cited just saw that this stuff caused arthiritis in an experiment in rats and went apeshit over it. Stupid.


Furthermore, the posting your linked to commits one of the most hilarious sins by discussing what is natural and such. Vaccines are not natural to the body. No shit. Many things we do are not natural. Many things that ARE natural are harmful. It is a silly and irrelevant point. It has no meaning at all. I'd rather put an "unnatural" vaccine in my body than all natural tetrodotoxin.

Do me a favor. Write down the shit you think is real. What you think is bad about vaccines. They cause autism and they have this compound that is so dangerous.

Now go here to do your fucking research in the future. Places that produce peer-reviewed studies with good scientific method and obtain repeatable results. Not places that cite ABC News as a source.

PubMed home
Google Scholar

I dare you to find anything that shows vaccines are at all dangerous. Then I dare you to make a really fucking stupid argument about how there is a worldwide conspiracy to prevent such research from being published.


Whoops:
However, subsequent investigation revealed that the study in question, which attempted to link squalene to Gulf War Syndrome, had several technical deficiencies in the way in which it analyzed its data. On top of this, it has been determined that the anthrax vaccines given to those US military personnel, did not use squalene as an adjuvant.[7]
http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/to...nd_answers/en/


Dumbass.

[Tristam]

The funniest part about that article is how it tries to demonize squalene for doing what it's supposed to do in a vaccine, act as an adjuvant. If a vaccine doesn't generate an immune response, it's freaking worthless.

[aduidarnenye]

I think the question you should all really ask yourselves is if you, or you know anyone personally, or even second-hand who has had a vaccine and come down with terrible complications. I don't mean a sore arm or a week or two of feeling ill. I mean terrible life changing/ending complications.

There are stories of people out there who get deathly ill from these things but I've never actually known someone personally to be ill and everyone I ask has had a vaccine of some kind or another during their lives.

[Tristam]

I think the question you should all really ask yourselves is if you, or you know anyone personally, or even second-hand who has had a vaccine and come down with terrible complications. I don't mean a sore arm or a week or two of feeling ill. I mean terrible life changing/ending complications.

There are stories of people out there who get deathly ill from these things but I've never actually known someone personally to be ill and everyone I ask has had a vaccine of some kind or another during their lives.

It is possible for a vaccine to have bad side effects, such is true in literally any medical intervention, from surgery to OTC painkillers. The idea for science-based medicine is that the statistical benefits outweigh the risks. You should go into anything open-eyed, and talk to your doctor about side effects if you're nervous. But there is also a LOT of misinformation out there, and I'm convinced that alot of these natural-products salesmen are at least as dishonest with consumers as any big pharma company.

[Nystul]

Not getting vaccines is kind of like someone who refuses to fly cross country because it's too dangerous but decides to, instead, ride cross country on a motorcycle without a helmet.

If you don't get the vaccine because you're worried about the one in a billion possibility of a complication then I have some wonderful beachfront property in Arizona you may be interested in.

Obviously one has to weigh risk/reward. I've never in my life had the flu as far as I know. And as such I've never bothered to get the flu shot- only getting the H1N1 because I was a) in the high risk age group b)married to a person who was working at a hospital that had a number of H1N1 cases c) soon to visit family that had the H1N1 but was getting over it and d)willing to get it so my wife would stop bothering me about it.

If you don't get it because you're low risk or whatever, fine. But using some lame fear based pseudoscience to make your decision is foolish.

[aduidarnenye]

It is possible for a vaccine to have bad side effects, such is true in literally any medical intervention, from surgery to OTC painkillers. The idea for science-based medicine is that the statistical benefits outweigh the risks. You should go into anything open-eyed, and talk to your doctor about side effects if you're nervous. But there is also a LOT of misinformation out there, and I'm convinced that alot of these natural-products salesmen are at least as dishonest with consumers as any big pharma company.

I do agree with you. My point was that we hear about all these horrible effects that are happening, but only that they are happening to one or two people that we otherwise know nothing about. We get scary, panic-inducing stories on the news and have knee-jerk reactions but refuse to be realistic, or informed, about these things at all.

I am wondering if we have some sort of natural instinct to react in extreme ways to scandal. A fight or flight instinct?

[Nystul]

I do agree with you. My point was that we hear about all these horrible effects that are happening, but only that they are happening to one or two people that we otherwise know nothing about. We get scary, panic-inducing stories on the news and have knee-jerk reactions but refuse to be realistic, or informed, about these things at all.

I am wondering if we have some sort of natural instinct to react in extreme ways to scandal. A fight or flight instinct?

My home state has had thus far 13 H1N1 deaths. There have been 0 deaths attributed to vaccines. You're absolutely right. People should not make decisions from an emotional standpoint. They should sit back, read literature (and not just look for stuff that says what we want to believe like Robothan or whatever his name is) and make well thought out decisions. Don't buy into the panic on either end.

[Tristam]

I do agree with you. My point was that we hear about all these horrible effects that are happening, but only that they are happening to one or two people that we otherwise know nothing about. We get scary, panic-inducing stories on the news and have knee-jerk reactions but refuse to be realistic, or informed, about these things at all.

I am wondering if we have some sort of natural instinct to react in extreme ways to scandal. A fight or flight instinct?

Yeah I wasn't quoting you out of disagreement, I can't understand why the extremes of any situation appear to be what people focus on, but I do think the tendency of the media to present information in an extremely polarizing fashion plays a part.

[aduidarnenye]

Yeah I wasn't quoting you out of disagreement, I can't understand why the extremes of any situation appear to be what people focus on, but I do think the tendency of the media to present information in an extremely polarizing fashion plays a part.

Well, the obvious solution therefore is to kill all media personel. I say we start with Glenn Beck.

[Ivve]

I like how you can casually dismiss 1.5% mortality rate is no big deal on a disease as easily caught as the flu. Do you perhaps live in a bubble? Seasonal flu is a big deal, that's why a seasonal vaccine is prepared for it every year. H1N1 is, at least, an equally big deal, so a vaccine should be prepared for it. The figure is significant, because it is *gasp* significant. Just because the deaths arent horrible legendary plague numbers doesn't mean the disease is insignificant. If you don't think it's a big deal, fine, don't get the vaccine. But don't excuse yourself from the vaccine on the basis of dystonia and then rail against media hype, when the dystonia case is a much bigger media hype itself.

edit: getting back to your false equivalence, you considered the outcomes as two weeks of feeling shitty vs. lifetime of dystonia, and made up the odds in your head. But the truth is that your the odds of death are 1.5%, vs a lifetime of dystonia that is so close to zero as to be almost incalculable. In fact, you have to rely on shady VAERS reports in which 5 cases were attributed to "suspicion" of the flu vaccine over the past 5-6 decades or whatever. The actual "odds" are 1.5%*death* vs. 0.000000000and so on1% "dystonia". But everyone else is buying into the media hype...right?

Sweetheart, you are more than slightly tardy to the party. I would respond to you, but it's not worth it. Go back and reread what I said, try to get your reading comprehension on, and I'm still gonna tell everyone I know that doesn't have kids or work in a high risk environment (or live with someone who does) not to bother getting it. Just like the regular flu shot, it's a giant load of hyped bullshit. Enjoy your useless vaccine!

Oh, and a 1.5% death rate, fucking lol. Please. OMG GUYS THERE'S A 1.5% CHANCE YOU MAY DIE, QUICK EVERYONE GO GET SHOT UP WITH SOME DRUGS. Yeah, that in no way is any kind of hype at all. It must feel so good to be so right all the time!

[Boyiee]

I'm in a double high risk group being under 25 and in healthcare, so I'll be getting it.

A kid in my area (17yrs old) died a week or 2 ago from h1n1, he showed no signs on friday and on sunday spiked a fever and died. Really I don't see a reason not to get it if you are in a high risk group.

People die from the regular flu, people die from this flu, it's no different than any other year... this one just has a name. Like I said, if you are in a high risk group, really isn't too much of a reason not to get it. Sister is in like 3-4 high risk groups since shes also in healthcare and pregnant lol. She's pretty against it but idk if that will last, think she just doesn't want to feel like shit for the last 2months of her pregnancy.

[Nystul]

Sweetheart, you are more than slightly tardy to the party. I would respond to you, but it's not worth it. Go back and reread what I said, try to get your reading comprehension on, and I'm still gonna tell everyone I know that doesn't have kids or work in a high risk environment (or live with someone who does) not to bother getting it. Just like the regular flu shot, it's a giant load of hyped bullshit. Enjoy your useless vaccine!

Oh, and a 1.5% death rate, fucking lol. Please. OMG GUYS THERE'S A 1.5% CHANCE YOU MAY DIE, QUICK EVERYONE GO GET SHOT UP WITH SOME DRUGS. Yeah, that in no way is any kind of hype at all. It must feel so good to be so right all the time!

1.5% is not trivial. I know it looks like a small number but it's exponentially higher than other risks like car death and many other things. In fact, it falls somewhere in the top 10 risks (at least this year). Twice as likely to die from H1N1 as you are from a firearm death, etc.

If you're not a high risk person (you don't work in healthcare or live with someone who does, you have a healthy immune system, are not pregnant or living with someone who is, etc etc etc) then I probably wouldn't bother either. But for some folks it does matter and the risk- while the number may look small- is significant. Considering what you are trading off- a 1.5% risk of death and far greater risk of being sick/work time lost etc vs a 1 in a million risk of some complication and a few hours of your time- it's not a crazy thing to do.

I agree that the media is hyping the shit out of this. But that doesn't change the reality of it.

[Beckwin]

lol @ Libertrollians. sensationalize about government conspiracies, then strawman with your anti-fed arguments and mises links.

I didn't know that being under 25 put you at a risk, and I do work with lots of children... I dunno if I should go for the vaccine when it's available or not. By the time it is I'll have less than 2 months before my job ending and heading back to school stateside though.

[Binne]

I will not be getting the seasonal flu shot or the H1N1 shot. Neither will my children. My husband might, but that is up to him. I am not a crazy anti-vaccine type. Although my children are on alternate schedules than the recommended just because of too many needle pricks in one session is a bad idea to me. Anyway, the reason why: my oldest son is allergic to eggs. As told to me by various medical professionals, eggs are used to create these vaccines as well as the chicken pox vaccine therefore he risks serious complications from the vaccine alone. He can not do the nasal mist either due to asthma. Until my two younger children are tested for egg allergies, they will not get these specific vaccines. They are generally healthy kids and we know all the warning signs to get them to a hospital should anything go wrong. As far as not getting it myself, well I am a stay at home mother and am low risk. Next year I will be returning to nursing school, so depending on where my clinicals are held will determine my need. I will need to protect my children from getting sick, especially my oldest. While I am not a fan of these flu shots, I will do anything to protect my children.

[Woozie]

If you have two young children who can't get the vaccine, you should definitely be getting it. Especially since you claim you would do anything to protect your children. Unless you're litterally at home all day every day and don't do anything as simple as grocery shopping, you're putting your children at risk.

[Rothbardian]

lol @ Libertrollians. sensationalize about government conspiracies, then strawman with your anti-fed arguments and mises links.

I didn't know that being under 25 put you at a risk, and I do work with lots of children... I dunno if I should go for the vaccine when it's available or not. By the time it is I'll have less than 2 months before my job ending and heading back to school stateside though.

lol @ Marxians who believe that Government is benevolent. The Government has never committed an atrocity or ever did anything against the population....

Oh except about carrying out fake terrorist attacks in the 60s....You know Operation Northwoods. They would never ever do anything to harm you....

Oh, and everyone, there are no Eugenicists in Obama's Administration. Really, there aren't.... ::rollseyes::

[Weeks]

You didn't fact-check your gun-hoarding uncle's emails thoroughly enough. Analysts came up with a crazy scheme to drum up support for a war, it was rejected outright, end of story until the government released the details and they came to the attention of a bunch of cretins who struggle to separate fiction from reality (Read: you).

[Jer]

Oh, and everyone, there are no Eugenicists in Obama's Administration. Really, there aren't.... ::rollseyes::

You say that as if it's a bad thing. There are many different interpretations of what eugenics is, and Hitler's definition is not the only one.