Maintaining Strong LS Leadership

[Onorgul]

I still think you're not giving the whole picture here and, moreover, you're trying to generalize a specific problem. By the sounds of it, this player you're talking about is thick as a brick, because there are very few events where a competent Samurai is not a welcome addition. Also, just because someone has Bard leveled doesn't mean they'll do it right. I was on a Soboro run the other day and had to repeatedly remind Johnny to stop playing with himself and put songs on me so that the damned thing would die faster.

If the only thing you have a Bard doing is sitting and casting Ballad over and over again, it sounds like the problem is with the linkshell leadership, not the job. I get bored stiff playing Bard in Dynamis, but I get bored stiff in Dynamis, period. Anywhere else, a Bard should be pulling, debuffing, buffing, healing... you know, all those things you did in the short trek from 1 to 75. If they're really bored, encourage them to buy a Blau Dolch and collect some Hecatomb equipment.

[Whaleporn]

If the only thing you have a Bard doing is sitting and casting Ballad over and over again, it sounds like the problem is with the linkshell leadership, not the job. I get bored stiff playing Bard in Dynamis, but I get bored stiff in Dynamis, period. Anywhere else, a Bard should be pulling, debuffing, buffing, healing... you know, all those things you did in the short trek from 1 to 75. If they're really bored, encourage them to buy a Blau Dolch and collect some Hecatomb equipment.

Most people who play bard do so because they understand bard is going to be a useful job that most people don't like to play thus lets you gear other jobs since leaders <3 bards. But hey, yeah, whip out a dagger and feed that sumbitch TP instead of leveling a job that actually IS dps and having other members work on their support roles.

Also bards don't have time to do anything besides buff, sleep sometimes, and get rotated because for multi alliance events you want to get the most out of any slot that isn't damage.

[Onorgul]

I think you missed the rather deeply embedded sarcasm in suggesting that someone invest millions of gil into melee gear for Bard.

[Yinnyth]

In my opinion, the best way to handle burnout is to limit your responsibilities. Pick events you know you can handle doing repeatedly and make them yours. If other members want other events in LS, great. Deputize them and let them lead that event. If they want it hard enough, they should know how to be good at it.

Myself, I love Dynamis, so I lead my own Dynamis LS. I love AV theorycraft, so I lead my HNMLS's AV attempts. Aside from that, I ocassionally help with other things if my leader requests it of me. On the side I run a static of (highly skilled) friends who get together to do scheduled events like salv/assaults and random events like ANNM, ZNM, MMM, etc.

Alone, the things I do aren't really enough to consider me a productive leader. But if you can find enough people to do their own thing for the LS, you'd have no end to the activity and help to limit the burnout. Even if one leader gets burnt out, you lose one event from your schedule- no big deal. If anyone really misses doing that event, they can take responsibility for it.

[Whaleporn]

I think you missed the rather deeply embedded sarcasm in suggesting that someone invest millions of gil into melee gear for Bard.

I'm like airport security: I can't let a single red flag comment go by. Also you didn't actually put any hints of sarcasm into that.

Example: "If you want to get your bard more involved they can, uh, whip out that dagger and help DPS! Or get some rocking DOT going! Because that's why people pick up bard: the massive versitility the job has!"

[Acturus]

I've been a part of both the "benevolent dictator" style and the "council" style, and both have worked for me. The key is to present the members with everything up front, and whatever the decisions, stick to them.

The linkshells that fail are the linkshells with leaders that make exceptions to their own rules.

Everything beyond that is trivial. Banks, loot preference, dkp, it's all minutia, and whatever system you have will attract members that are willing to adhere to your rules.

At the end of the day, a winning linkshell has a set system, never deviates from it (obviously rules are changed to fit need, but this should also be uniformly done and done out in the open), and makes sure all members are educated as to those rules. Those who won't follow them can gtfo, and as long as everyone knows what the rules are, there's a lot less argument in general.

[Tuna]

.

[treelo]

Honestly, I've had issues with bad leadership since I left my HNMLS, and they weren't exactly a shining example of how things should be done either.

Interestingly enough though, one thing I've not seen a single person mention, is the ability to fucking listen. It isn't a major concern for linkshells that have been established for a long time, but certainly for the rash of newer linkshells out there, this is a major problem. I have no time for people who can't take criticism, god knows I dish enough of it out. On more than one occasion I've left a linkshell after offering advice to their sackholders/shellholder about something they're doing that is outrageously retarded, only to get a "OMFG I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING" response. Fine, fuck you then, I'll go elsewhere.

How to do it right?

-Keep it small.
That's not what she said, but it works. Bloated linkshells full of dead weight and "useless" members will implode. The more people you bring in, the more chance there is of someone not liking what you're doing. I shake my head every time I see a new linkshell shouting in Whitegate "NEED BRD/BLM/WHM - WILL TAKE ANY JOB!" So why be specific? You've already lost as far as I'm concerned. Keep only the people you trust, and get on well with. A close knit group of 12 people will get a lot more shit done than a horde of 40+ members most of whom can't stand each other.

-Keep it simple.
I've just finished a post about this on my LS website. I always found that fewer rules makes things a lot easier to run. Providing you trust your leaders to make the right decisions, you don't need to legislate a damn thing, it only became a problem when I stopped trusting the people making our decisions. The more rules you have, the more people will complain about X doing Y, you'll find yourself chewing people out for stupid shit because you made a rule about it. Common sense always wins through in the end.

That's honestly all you need to know. I'm yet to find a linkshell I've been truly happy in since I left my HNMLS. I could spend days telling you why linkshells fail, but making one work is pretty damn simple if you have the right people around you.

Do I lead a linkshell? No. Why? Because I haven't found the right people for it, and when I did, they were too burned out to care. I'd have doused myself in petrol and jumped through hoops of fire for them, and I still would.

[Vytiss]

i'm a stupid whore

L
O
L
Syng was cool, btw... most people in the shell liked her. Bet she still uses the vibrator Brice bought her too. Unlike the paper bag that you most likely refuse to wear because it agitates your mustache.
did anyone ever confirm your sexuality, btw?

Honestly I applaud Brice's leadership skills, he was great. Still is, I bet, if he even still plays. HE's the one that should be posting here, not you. The guy knows his shit, and is great at handling people. He just doesn't have the balls to stand up to his e-romances when they're overstepping their boundaries and wreaking havoc in the shell. I pity whatever linkshell has to deal with your drama these days. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a new list of people that have quit the game as a result of your antics on your new server.


Its like Yoko Ono writing a book about how to put together a great band.
You are a drama-llama and in no way deserve to be posting about proper leadership... especially after stealing an LS's bank to fund your current relic.

[jammalamma]

The funny thing Vytiss is that you still have nothing but baseless lies to throw around. You're not the first person to accuse me with such things, and I doubt you'll be the last. But please do tell how exactly I stole whatever bank you're referring to. Please paint a picture that's even worth admitting to instead of simply saying I did something because you don't like me. Where's your proof? Have you any?

And why ignore comments about Liger and Mahoo? Does that argument and your failure to acknowledge their relationship as a poison defeat your own?

This is the kind of crap a strong leader has to deal with and be able to defend them self against. Like a good politician, they need the skills and the guts to put up with sad, frustrated individuals who made it their goal to create fabrications. My advantage though is my opponent hasn't really thought out his plan of attack, partly because he's a moron.

But in any case, I'm up for a good story even from somebody like you who sucks at telling any story that doesn't involve banging some whore from your impoverished mother country.

[Vytiss]

same story, different day Jam.
pull all the bullshit you want, and then play dumb and enjoy watching people's frustration trying to re-explain their hatred towards you. Which, of course, there isn't any proof... Just the knowledge that bank holder forgets to change password on the account after you and brice jump shells.... and then have to watch helplessly as the loot disappears conveniently just as you hop servers. point taken, great magic trick... you've made bits of data disappear and somehow I have to show proof that both they once existed and where they went to. you're amazing.
next you'll ask me to prove how you used Suterusu's admin to nuke our forums as well, or created dummy admins on ventrillo to do more damage to that too.
and then my lack of defending every person you try to flame suddenly validates your point? or maybe i just don't give a shit about what you have to say and don't bother to read your long-winded rants anymore?
p.s. Liger/Mahoo are awesome, and you seem to be the only one that thinks otherwise... guess I'll mention that since you seem so keen on bringing it up.

also, WE wouldn't stop?!? HAH. You're correct, Suterusu did tell people to stop with LS drama spam in hopes of keeping the peace, which everyone did... for a while (6months of constant bickering between yourself and random members of the shell). But you kept running your mouth because you knew you could get away with it. I may have been one of the only people that would stand up to your bullshit, because tbh I could give a crap about getting kicked from an endgame shell if it meant having to listen to you run your flap like you owned the place. I call a spade a spade... and you, my dear, are a whore to the fullest extent. Latch on to the guy with the most power possible, and use it as your own. Take all you can, then leave when you don't need anything else. Best wishes to any linkshell that considers you an asset.

tbh, now who's the asshat here? The dramallama known as Jam or the guy that doesn't realize he's wasting his time arguing with "her". ijdk
...and yes, i do enjoy banging women from impoverished countries... makes me feel like a king, with my $30 budget.

[jammalamma]

That's interesting, so you have no proof? Are you purposely leaving out the near half a year leave from the game? What about the information that I transferred servers a month before your bank supposedly was stolen? Server transfer only lasts so long, and I doubt a GM would sanction moving a level 1 account with a considerable amount of money and items within the week period.

Let's face it, you have no case against me. I didn't have admin access to your vent or your forums, if your admin was any bit competent he could show you that.

And trust me, people didn't like Mahoo. Not the people who left your shell, nor the people who came and saved it from dying.

It'd probably be best to just leave me alone, move on with your life. It's not cool to stalk me and harass me like some creepy guy I turned down coffee to. I understand you're upset, but you're a grown man and this is a game. If you're going to come at me, at least have some supporting evidence.

[Vytiss]

The linkshells that fail are the linkshells with leaders that make exceptions to their own rules.
At the end of the day, a winning linkshell has a set system, never deviates from it (obviously rules are changed to fit need, but this should also be uniformly done and done out in the open), and makes sure all members are educated as to those rules. Those who won't follow them can gtfo, and as long as everyone knows what the rules are, there's a lot less argument in general.

well said.

[thetruepandagod]

I like when people say they are good leaders but get called out at the drop of a hat. Delicious. I guess blinders aren't just for horses.

[Vytiss]

same story, different day Jam.
pull all the bullshit you want, and then play dumb and enjoy watching people's frustration trying to re-explain their hatred towards you.
tbh, now who's the asshat here? The dramallama known as Jam or the guy that doesn't realize he's wasting his time arguing with "her". ijdk

now you're just making me repeat myself.
always the antagonist... never the.... what's the opposite of a whore?

[Vytiss]

It'd probably be best to just leave me alone, move on with your life. It's not cool to stalk me and harass me like some creepy guy I turned down coffee to. I understand you're upset, but you're a grown man and this is a game.

nah, that's ok... you made 1 year of my ffxi playtime shitty, figure I'd return the favor.
.... or at least help others avoid the same situation. since i'm such a nice guy.

[jammalamma]

It's okay Vytiss, if it helps you sleep at night then feel free to continue to direct your anger towards me. We all have short comings, some of us don't know productive ways of dealing with them. I'd prefer to not have the guilt of you hanging yourself over a game on my shoulders, so if all you need is to try and belittle me and falsely accuse me of crimes then so be it.

Hopefully some day in the future you can be happy and get a life. Maybe you should try finding religion, since many people find purpose in that.

[Furionstormrage]

Before this thread gets derailed all to hell and back, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

I've led a more casual endgame LS for just over 2 years now. (Casual in that we only do events 4 nights a week, most of them pretty short time-wise). We pretty much do it all except camping (Odin, Sea, Limbus, ZNMs, Dynamis, Sky, etc.).

Having strong officers who can lead events when I'm not able to play is crucial, as is being able to trust them to handle events and call drops fairly.

Having a firm hand in regards to drama is something that took me quite awhile to get to, I was far too slack on this for a long time and in the end we lost a few really good members because I didn't handle problems immediately. Don't repeat my mistakes.

I prefer to deal with problems privately, instead of dragging it all out into LS chat and demoralizing the rest of the LS, but I also expect members to deal with smaller problems on their own. I'm not anyone's counselor and I'm not going to let someone's petty problems cause a rift in the LS.

Regarding the melee-only players, we've had this debate amongst ourselves many times, and while some job variety is a welcome thing, our only melee-only players are extremely good at it. I think if we had someone who couldn't pull their own weight and couldn't contribute anything else, they wouldn't last very long because I just expect more out of every member. (Basically, I don't mind a melee-only member if they are going to always be exceptional at it, rather that than a blend of crappy mages who don't want to be on mage jobs and crappy DDs who don't want to be on mage jobs, if that makes sense)

We do our best to rotate around mages, give them time on other jobs, but we also don't allow people to retire jobs, and if they have the job at 75 they're required to have it available to use. Nobody has ever broken this rule, mainly because we go to great lengths to let people play different jobs, but we wouldn't keep them if they did. Dead weight isn't helping us at all.

We have a drop system that's based on attendance and letting members set their own priority of what gear they want the most, and drops are called by taking their overall attendance % combined with their self-stated priority number. I admit that it's not a good system for most groups, it's highly open to question but luckily it works for us because I don't favor anyone in the LS over anyone else. Obviously this is a system that only works when you have truly impartial leadership, and for that reason I think a DKP system is probably best for most LS's.

Luckily the LS is almost entirely people that I've known a very long time, and brothers/sisters/etc of said people. We have a few people that just randomly applied that we accepted, and they seem to be very happy with our system. We're pretty strict about who we let in (You pretty much gotta be good friends with an LS member who can give you an exceptional reference), and I think that really keeps people who aren't like-minded away. We have very low turnover and I've only had to kick 4 people. (All of those when we were first starting up and were more relaxed about recruitment).

The bank is posted on our online database, although regular members don't currently have access to that (We're working on that, along with some other online resources to streamline everything). I've always been very open about the bank, and anytime it goes over our "safety net" I do a payout based on attendance since the last payout. We also do an immediate payout for things like Ouryu/BV2, ZNM T4 money items, Sky money items, etc. We don't earn much money, being as we do one Dynamis a week that is entirely comprised of COP zones, Xarc, and Tavnazia (With a Glacier every 4 months or so), and we don't sell any drops since our members are still after everything worth selling, so tracking that small amount is quick and easy.

[Vytiss]

Hopefully some day in the future you can be happy and get a life. M

LOL, you mean like e-dating? good choice there babe.
i'll stick with "stalking"...
speaking of, nice myspace page:
MySpace - ~~~JaMmEh~~~ (MeeeeOoOooOoOWwwwWwWWWww) =^.^= - 22 - Female - im not telling, Texas - myspace.com/wtf_m8lulz

[Vytiss]

In my opinion, the best way to handle burnout is to limit your responsibilities. Pick events you know you can handle doing repeatedly and make them yours. If other members want other events in LS, great. Deputize them and let them lead that event. If they want it hard enough, they should know how to be good at it.

my apologies for being party to derailing this topic, but in attempt to contribute something with my lame-ass post count... i applaud this comment.

Leaders can't do everything themselves. It takes a good leader to know who to trust to take the reigns, and inspires others to keep the ball rollin'.


Also, proper dictation of direction at any event is always good...
as you can see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04
"Minus 50dkp!"