AV and MV

[FailureMidgard]

At this point, this is just for fun/theory, but I wanted to point out that all the group that tried to "Scholar Burn" AV so far were going about it wrong, which is the main reason a kill never succeeded. I was trying to encourage my shell to try this my way, but progress was slow on getting people to care enough to level/merit scholar. I am just posting this for those that may have an academic interest in how it -should- have been attempted. I even posted this in the past, minus the exact math.

Anyway, I talked to Kaeko about this privately more recently, and afaik he believes as well that this is a much better way to go about it.
So what's the difference? Using 8 MVs instead of 9. When Kaeko's group was testing, I believe he said they had a <10% success rate on landing 9 MVs on 1 helix, but a >75% success rate when they tried a few times with 8. All that is needed to go with 8 MVs instead of 9 is a 262 base damage helix instead of 131. This is -easily- obtainable (in fact, after this update, we could theoretically get an initial value to approach the number needed fora 7 MV kill).
Anyway, my original math was done to just see how high I could potentially get a helix to. I did include the legs from this coming update, and a magic burst, but, neither were actually needed for an 8-MV kill on AV.

The formula for the Helix damage is [25 + dINT]*[(MAB%+1)/(MDB%+1)]*staff*weather*etc. AV has 89 int and 100 MDB (MDB%=1).

Anyway, here is the buffs/totals:

Spoiler: show

Buffs to be used (w/ durations)
Elemental Seal
Ebullience - +20% damage.
Stormsurge Hailstorm - +7int, 3minutes
Wizard's Roll w/ BLM - +16 MAB, 5minu tes, random
Memento Mori - +20 MAB, 30 sec
SV Learned Etude, +20int, 4+minutes
SV Sage Etude, +31~32int, decays, +20 @1min.
Food - +7int, 30min
Dream Shroud - ??10 MAB??, 3minutes
Ecliptic Grown - ??7 int??, 3minutes
Magic Burst - +30% damage
Intelligence Potion - +7int

Debuffs:
(SAed)Vidohunir - -10 MDB
(ESed)Burn - -13 int


Gear:
Staff+5int
Strap+1int
Ranged+2int
Head+6int
Neck+5int
Ear+7mab
Ear+5mab
Body+11int
glove+5int,+2mab
ring+5int
ring+5int
back+5int
waist+5int
legs+2int,+4mab,+10mb
feet+3int,+2mab
total:+60int, +20mab, +10mb

Passive:
blmsub+24mab
taru79int
hume/mithra72int
merit+5int
merits+10mab


Taru Sch/blm:
84+60+78 int = 222 int
24+20+56 mab = 100 mab
+20% Ebullience
+40% Burst
+20% day/weather
+15% Staff

AV:
89 - 13 int = 76 int
100 - 10 mdb = 90 mdb

[25+222-76]*[2.0/1.9]*1.2*1.4*1.2*1.15

After flooring: 180>216>302>362>416

Even if you take the magic burst off entirely, that leaves the helix value at 297 without switching legs to something better (Mahatma). An MB isn't -that- hard to time with the helix though, with a small bit of practice, seeing as the skillchainers can know ahead of time the exact second you plan to land the helix. If you add the 1.3 multiplier back in (before this patch), you have so much leeway with buffs, you could literally drop them left and right and still hit the 262 number. Without a magic burst, it's still more than doable though. Realistically, my MAB and INT numbers from the tier2 etude and both summoner BPs are too high, as there is decay on the tier2 etude, and other variables (moon, time of day) at work for the BPs, but dropping those to half or less won't matter too much. I also left off some other things due to not knowing if they stack (Enervation + Vidohunir, Burn+Skullbreaker).

In conclusion: There was no reason to use 9 MVs, it cut the window way too small, and 8 was the proper number to aim for. The difference in difficulty/randomness between landing 8 and 9 MVs was enormous. Also, the fact that I did overshoot 262 by so far in my calculation shows how much room for buff changing/race changing/merit changing there is. We were planning to use a hume with no int merits to do this, and didn't even plan to have the numbers listed above, but would still be well past the 262 number (without either summoner buff, and using 20 int from 1minute worth of decay on the tier2 etude).

And again, I'm just posting this for academic interest/fun/etc. I fully realize this is 99% likely dead (though depending on their resistance numbers and the new time delay, it would not surprise me in the least if SE was too incompetent to properly nerf it when they tried).

[Cairthenn]

Someone showed me this. It ultimately would be more difficult to pull off (Well, for me at least, we had the timing of 9 down pretty well, just lacked people). But, yeah, it's fairly pointless now.

[TheMysteriousX]

So I heard it was possible to use a WAR tank on HNM's using an aerial armor rotation, anyone wanna work out how many SMN's you'd need?

EDIT: How about how many KC DRK's I'd need to take down AV in 43 seconds while we're at it?

[The Blackrose]

I'll allow it!

And if people are going to be smartasses about it, they can face the hammer.

[Starr]

btw they nerfed MV

[Bikpik]

Just because this will be nerfed on AV doesn't mean it can't be used on other NMs

[Titanss]

cool story bro




I'm being serious that is cool

[FailureMidgard]

So I heard it was possible to use a WAR tank on HNM's using an aerial armor rotation, anyone wanna work out how many SMN's you'd need?

Are you really this stupid? I'm pointing out (for fun) a way that the AV MV kills -could- have been simplified. This would be similar to if WARs did tank HNMs with an aerial armor rotation, and I came along and said "hey guys, you can use /nin you know". I am not making it more complex (ok, I'm making the math more complex, but it's still simpler math than even deciding if Ace's Helm or W.Turban will do more damage for you), but in game it requires 1 party to buff the scholar. That isn't really some huge number of people.

And Cair, I'm sorry, but going to respectfully disagree and say you're pulling that out of your ass. If you guys could successfully land 9 with 100% accuracy, I think you would have killed AV long before the events that occurred did. I put much more faith in Kaeko's assessment of landing 9 MVs. And this adds essentially no difficulty to the fight, just a couple people to buff the scholar.

And again, there is no pipe-dream of it not being nerfed. If there were, I wouldn't have posted this, as my shell was working on getting scholars. Just pointing out a better way that this could have been done.

[Yvonne]

Problem was always trying to find some other SCH on Midgardsormr that cared about SCH (much less bothered meriting it). I only knew like 2 other NAs that actually called it their main job, so it's unfortunate to see a viable way of beating (x) mobs just go up in smoke from today's patch.

Aside from that, that's interesting data you got set up there. I'm also interested to see just how much timing is required for the new MV. Worst case scenario, SE completely ruins MV, which isn't the first time SE F'd over their own game mechanics (EX: First Shield nerf).

[Virtuous Saint]

First of all Vidohunir is magical, it can't miss, and secondly I have personally tried it against AV twice, and -MDB does not land. Just to clear up anyone's thoughts about doing this when normally nuking AV.

[FailureMidgard]

First of all Vidohunir is magical, it can't miss, and secondly I have personally tried it against AV twice, and -MDB does not land. Just to clear up anyone's thoughts about doing this when normally nuking AV.

I assumed it was magical actually, but don't have BLM leveled, and it didn't seem like something worth verifying when /thf was possible. In any case, I'd assume an ES Enervation will always land, so I guess that destroys the stacking idea, just change -10 MDB to -8 MDB.

[Cairthenn]

And Cair, I'm sorry, but going to respectfully disagree and say you're pulling that out of your ass. If you guys could successfully land 9 with 100% accuracy, I think you would have killed AV long before the events that occurred did. I put much more faith in Kaeko's assessment of landing 9 MVs. And this adds essentially no difficulty to the fight, just a couple people to buff the scholar.

We did it several (yes, several, around 8 I believe) times in a row with only one failure. We didn't have Jailer of Love pops at the time. That's when people (read: one person using 3 SCH) lost interest. Respectfully disagree all you want, but you're wrong.

Also, I've had discussions with Kaeko. Even he agreed that my group was much further along at pulling this off than his was (if perhaps only due to the fact that we all had free App thanks to ArtMoney).